CO CO - Gilpin Co., WhtFem, 25-30, burned, off Hwy 119, overbite, Sep'52

[phantomstrider]

A jewler in Colorado noted the piece was very unique.

Ok do we know that she had the same kind of jewelry Lilian wore. If not this doesn’t prove at all that she is this Jane doe. Also what connects her to Colorado.

 

[subaw0067]

Ok do we know that she had the same kind of jewelry Lilian wore. If not this doesn’t prove at all that she is this Jane doe. Also what connects her to Colorado.

Please direct these questions to the coroner. Jane Doe was found with a unique necklace. A family member of Lilian said it resembled one that she owned. Nobody said anything about Lilian being Jane Doe definitively.

 

[SimsGuy67]

Neither NamUs nor the coroner got back to me. I just have a gut feeling that this Doe isn't Lillian DeMaris, despite the similarities. I find the timing of finding out about Lillian and the dumping of the remains incredibly odd, and somewhat convenient.

The dumping of the remains seems like something they did off a whim, not a calculated decision. The only record of this I'm aware of is the words of the medical examiner. I feel that if they wanted to destroy the remains without a cemetery, just cremate them. It'd be worse but more wise of them.

The only reason I can think about dumping her in a landfill is maybe the ME had some troubles with money. I've seen no evidence to support it, but it's the only reason I can think of.

 

[SimsGuy67]

I've gotten some info from Doe Network about the 3-D reconstruction, and it boils down to it being largely inaccurate. The overbite is nothing like how Jane Doe's was, and the teeth are very different to how they actually were.

Also, Jane Doe seems to have had photos taken of her skull and teeth before presumably being dumped in the landfill. It seems Colorado LE has more info than the Coroner, and the Sheriff's Office likely has these photos.

This makes me wonder if a revised reconstruction can be done, even if the photos become available. Then maybe someone like Carl Koppelman could create one. Maybe it could jog the memory of this Doe's grandmother or child or any other family member.

I had a bit of trouble understanding the text, but this is how I understand it.

 

[Richard]

Bumping this long cold case up.

 

[Die Die Lullaby]

Lillian DeMaris died in New Orleans, Louisiana in 1969. Source

So, we don't really have any ideas on who Gilpin County Jane Doe is, but at least we can rule Lillian out as being Gilpin County Jane Doe.

 

[phantomstrider]

Lillian DeMaris died in New Orleans, Louisiana in 1969. Source

So, we don't really have any ideas on who Gilpin County Jane Doe is, but at least we can rule Lillian out as being Gilpin County Jane Doe.

I had a feeling that it probably wasn't her. I wonder why the coroner's office was so sure the Jane Doe was Lilian despite having no identifiers. Them looking similar is not enough to conclude they're the same.

 

[SimsGuy67]

LE's dismissal of info because they thought Pyre Case Doe was Lillian really rubbed me off the wrong way. My gut was telling me not to give up on this case, even after the possible ID.

I'm still wondering if Pyre Case Doe is Mary Henley, even if the updated height estimate is off.

 

[phantomstrider]

LE's dismissal of info because they thought Pyre Case Doe was Lillian really rubbed me off the wrong way. My gut was telling me not to give up on this case, even after the possible ID.

I'm still wondering if Pyre Case Doe is Mary Henley, even if the updated height estimate is off.

We know now she cant be Mary Henley as she was located and her case was closed.

 

[friendlysleuther]

We know now she cant be Mary Henley as she was located and her case was closed.

We will find her & give her her name back, one day

 

[SimsGuy67]

We know now she cant be Mary Henley as she was located and her case was closed.

I'm glad Mary Henley was found not to have fallen victim to foul play, as I did think she was this Doe. As for what it means for this Doe, I'm less optimistic. Both possible ID's of Pyre Case Doe have now been excluded based on being located elsewhere.

I do think we may know who Pyre Case Doe was one day, but I doubt it'll be any time soon. Without any form of DNA, I just can't see it happening. The only place I can imagine them getting DNA from is her personal belongings, but we have no idea if they kept them.

I remain somewhat unconvinced of the Coroner's explanation for what happened to the remains, but what do I know? It's the only explanation we do have. I still think the Gilpin County Sheriff's Office might have a bit more info, but I don't know.

 

[snooptroop88]

So I'm just really curious on this, but here's a piece of Maria's jewelry, I believe. It looks like (?) one of the earrings, I don't know if this is the single earring that's been discussed or one from the complete pair recovered:

Okay. So Maria was found 1952 Gilpin Cty CO. This is a charm found around the neck of Neptune NJ Jane Doe, 1980 (found August, seeing est time of death may have been mid-June), over three decades later:

I've been trying to find out for quite a while what exactly that charm is that they found with Neptune (New Jersey) Jane Doe. These look too similar to me not to be the same sort of charm (jmo, obviously), but I've got no idea what that is. And on that Maria piece, I've got no idea what the function of it is. Is that an earring, yes? Looks like one.

What is that charm, what does it mean? I've looked and looked. Maybe a hatchet, well pump, old-time telephone?? Is it something affiliated with a profession, trade or organization? Is it from another country?

Also for Maria, trying to absorb this little portable razor they found with her. And three empty lipsticks, three safety pins. Man's ring/no setting, so like a wedding band? Or just missing the stone? Blue jean rivets. And the poor victim, she's not even reached 30.

(Just noting, Neptune Doe was young as well, est 20-30 yo, 5'7", 135. And I see someone on here talking about war brides for Maria and how she might have come from abroad. Interpol looked into the Neptune Jane Doe case because the victim was wearing an article of clothing with a Cophenhagen, Denmark label) And just as a quick little edit here, I'm looking this up pretty furiously right now on what this charm symbol might be/mean (if anything), I'm thinking it looks like a water nozzle. I was maneuvered into an "evil eye" jewelry collection when I was searching on that, I guess water is supposed to repel the evil eye, so someone heavily into that thinking might wear such a symbol, and that's why it's in the broader "evil eye" collection. Still not really sure what to make of that symbol/charm, but continuing to research.

 

[snooptroop88]

And just a minor correction on this post just above, I should say "nearly" three decades ago rather than "over" three decades. This note applies to the span between Gilpin Co JD/1952 and Neptune NJ JD/1980. And just restating, I've been trying to get any information I can on that charm. And if it has any real significance, it could shed maybe a little light on both cases.

And maybe the charm doesn't have significance, maybe it's just chance and it's just something whimsical, but I wish I could know for certain. Kind of an uphill battle on this, but holding out hope.

RIP Maria. I hope someday, people know your real name.

 

[snooptroop88]

I believe I may have found a match for the charm, and it appears to be associated with the syncretic religion of Santeria. I knew nothing about Santeria until I started searching for what this symbol on the charm might mean.

Santeria is a syncretic religion, polytheistic, blending elements of Catholicism with Yoruba religion. It is flexible and eclectic, but some sources say it can move into the realm of occult and even Satanism. There's wide, wide variation in terms of the way it's practiced. As I was searching, I started getting a lot of results noting "voodoo." Practitioners of Santeria in New Jersey (where 1980 Neptune Jane Doe was found) have in some cases been fined and jailed for animal sacrifices. There is a recent case in Miami-Dade where a man set his house on fire because his mother removed his Santeria materials.

It could be a coincidence, but that's a very, very similar charm to the charm worn by Neptune Jane Doe around her neck and the earring found at the scene for Gilpin County Jane Doe.

 

[snooptroop88]

And yet another correction on Neptune Jane Doe's discovery date, NOT August but July 1 1980. I'm pretty sure at one point I had a source saying August (?) but most are in agreement that the date of discovery-- a pretty straightforward date-- is July 1. Here's an article if anyone wants to see information on the Neptune Jane Doe in conjunction with this case:

Neptune Jane Doe

Clipping found in Asbury Park Press published in Asbury Park, New Jersey on 12/14/1986. Neptune Jane Doe

www.newspapers.com

Weirdly, this article notes that at the time, three suspects had been questioned in connection with Neptune Jane Doe's death, and one had told an acquaintance he strangled a woman behind a bowling alley (fits with Neptune JD's circumstances) because she wanted to see God and he hoped to "help her along." But he denied making the statements to police.

RIP.

 

[SimsGuy67]

Bumping. I looked through this case one more time, now that both Lillian DeMaris and Mary Henley have been found and were not related to this case. Honestly, I hate how stubborn I am about this, but my gut is telling me not to buy the explanation of her being dumped in a landfill just yet.

The post originally made "confirming" this Doe was dumped in a landfill was made in December 2022, but an article detailing the coroner, the same person who allegedly knows for certain the remains were dumped in a landfill, continuing to search for info relating to the remains' location was published in March 2023, after the fate of the remains was allegedly known. It doesn't make sense, and while I'd usually just say the article was outdated or wrong, since they often are, I'm just unconvinced.

I'll also add that I did try to contact Zane Laubhan myself back in November 2023, but I got no response. I don't know if it's just my stubborn persistence causing me to doubt this explanation so much, since I have absolutely no reason to, but something just feels off IMO.

Finally, I will again note that photos of the woman's teeth, and possibly her skull, do exist and are most likely in the possession of the Gilpin County Sheriff's Office.

 

[rose_quartz]

Bumping. I looked through this case one more time, now that both Lillian DeMaris and Mary Henley have been found and were not related to this case. Honestly, I hate how stubborn I am about this, but my gut is telling me not to buy the explanation of her being dumped in a landfill just yet.

The post originally made "confirming" this Doe was dumped in a landfill was made in December 2022, but an article detailing the coroner, the same person who allegedly knows for certain the remains were dumped in a landfill, continuing to search for info relating to the remains' location was published in March 2023, after the fate of the remains was allegedly known. It doesn't make sense, and while I'd usually just say the article was outdated or wrong, since they often are, I'm just unconvinced.

I'll also add that I did try to contact Zane Laubhan myself back in November 2023, but I got no response. I don't know if it's just my stubborn persistence causing me to doubt this explanation so much, since I have absolutely no reason to, but something just feels off IMO.

Finally, I will again note that photos of the woman's teeth, and possibly her skull, do exist and are most likely in the possession of the Gilpin County Sheriff's Office.

Thank you for all your efforts and persistence in finding answers for this Doe
I hope we get more answers one day.

 

[victoriarobinson642]

Bumping. I looked through this case one more time, now that both Lillian DeMaris and Mary Henley have been found and were not related to this case. Honestly, I hate how stubborn I am about this, but my gut is telling me not to buy the explanation of her being dumped in a landfill just yet.

The post originally made "confirming" this Doe was dumped in a landfill was made in December 2022, but an article detailing the coroner, the same person who allegedly knows for certain the remains were dumped in a landfill, continuing to search for info relating to the remains' location was published in March 2023, after the fate of the remains was allegedly known. It doesn't make sense, and while I'd usually just say the article was outdated or wrong, since they often are, I'm just unconvinced.

I'll also add that I did try to contact Zane Laubhan myself back in November 2023, but I got no response. I don't know if it's just my stubborn persistence causing me to doubt this explanation so much, since I have absolutely no reason to, but something just feels off IMO.

Finally, I will again note that photos of the woman's teeth, and possibly her skull, do exist and are most likely in the possession of the Gilpin County Sheriff's Office.

It wouldn't hurt to follow up with another email. I'd be up for it.

 

[citizen_sleuth]

I found some other articles about Jane Doe's discovery. Plenty of photos in these links too, including an aerial map of the area where the remains were found and a photo of her teeth.

"Woman Slain, Burned Near Central City," Rocky Mountain News [Denver, CO], 1 October 1952, pg. 5.
<snipped & BBM>
"Either she was killed some place else and carried up there to be burned, or stunned and put under the log and burned to death," he [Gilpin County Sheriff Kenneth McKenzie] said.

[C.E.D.] of Central City found the body. It lay about 100 yards up a gentle slope from Colorado Highway 119, five and a half miles below Black Hawk.

[...]

The attorney [District Attorney Clement Hackethal] said there was a locket around the woman's neck and a large ring without a stone on one hand.

Bill Miller, "FBI Enters Murder Mystery Probe," Rocky Mountain News [Denver, CO], 2 October 1952, pg. 5.
<snipped & BBM>
A new element of mystery was injected when a Denver Tramway bus token was found near the woman's body, indicating that she had been in the city recently.

[...]

No bullet or bludgeon was visible in the remains. But Detective Holindrake said a nearby rock carried stains which might be blood. The stone was brought to Denver for laboratory tests. Officers theorized the woman's head may have been battered against it.

[...]

A number of fired gun cartridges were found in the vicinity, but officers said these probably have no bearing on the murder. They said the area is commonly used by hunters and others for isolation.

Other items found were a man's ring without a stone, a few blackened shreds of clothing, a safety razor and a few strands of brown hair.

Dave Stolberg, "Man Hunted in Pyre Murder," Rocky Mountain News (Denver, CO), 3 October 1952, pgs. 5-6.
<snipped & BBM>
A second search of the murder site yesterday by Sheriff Kenneth McKenzie of Gilpin County and Deputy District Attorney William McNeill uncovered the burned remnants of a July 15 issue of "Look Magazine."

Dr. Ogura reported his autopsy disclosed the woman's skull had been shattered by a blow.

[...]

Found, in addition to items mentioned previously, were a broken hand mirror and a Denver Tramway token.

Jack Gaskie, "Science Fails to Identify Slain Woman," Rocky Mountain News (Denver, CO), 3 October 1952, pg. 6.
<snipped & BBM>
His [chief coroner's pathologist Dr. George Ogura] most important finding was that her skull had been fractured, probably by a blunt instrument. Police had already found at the scene a bloody rock that may have been used to batter her head.

Jack Gaskie and Dave Stolberg, "All Leads Fizzle in Murder Probe," Rocky Mountain News (Denver, CO), 4 October 1952, pgs. 5-6.
<snipped & BBM>
Mr. Hackethal [Deputy District Attorney] said he is convinced the murdered woman is not from Denver or the neighboring counties.

"With any widespread interest in this case, any such missing women would have been reported. I think the victim was from well outside our area."

[...]

Meanwhile, Dr. George I. Ogura, chief coroner's pathologist, said the victim's bones had bleached so far as to make three weeks ago a likely time of death.

[...]

Easily distinguished are the prominence of the upper teeth, the irregularity of the lower. Upper right is a big ulcerated cavity in a molar, and a small cavity in the next molar. Lower left are an impacted tooth, and a space where a tooth was removed and nearby teeth moved into part of the gap.

Bill Miller, "Lie Test for Finder of Pyre Corpse Slated," Rocky Mountain News, 7 October 1952, pg. 6.
<snipped & BBM>
Officers theorized the woman was lured to the death site, bludgeoned to death, and her body placed beneath a log. The killer then poured inflammable liquid over the log and set fire to the log.

Jack Gaskie, "Break Due Today In Pyre Murder," Rocky Mountain News, 9 October 1952, pg. 5.
<snipped & BBM>
The shotgun was turned over to Sheriff Kenneth McKenzie of Gilpin County by Myron Teagarden, police chief of Boulder.

The gun was found near the murder scene a week ago Saturday––three days before the body was found.

[...]

The sheriff said it was a 16-gauge Winchester shotgun in good condition. Its butt, he said, had stains that looked like blood.

[...]

The gun was found about 70 feet off Colorado Highway 119. A few miles to the south was the abandoned gravel pit where the body was found.

Nearby is Missouri Gulch, where [C.E.D.] lives. Mr. [D.] is the 31-year-old carpenter who found the body a week ago Tuesday.

He has since been quizzed extensively on two things––his story that he cut six months ago the log thrown over the victim's body and set afire, and his admission that he revisited the scene at least twice since his discovery of the body.

Mr. [D.] Tuesday submitted to a lie detector test, results of which were termed inconclusive.

 

[SimsGuy67]

I found some other articles about Jane Doe's discovery. Plenty of photos in these links too, including an aerial map of the area where the remains were found and a photo of her teeth.

"Woman Slain, Burned Near Central City," Rocky Mountain News [Denver, CO], 1 October 1952, pg. 5.
<snipped & BBM>
"Either she was killed some place else and carried up there to be burned, or stunned and put under the log and burned to death," he [Gilpin County Sheriff Kenneth McKenzie] said.

[C.E.D.] of Central City found the body. It lay about 100 yards up a gentle slope from Colorado Highway 119, five and a half miles below Black Hawk.

[...]

The attorney [District Attorney Clement Hackethal] said there was a locket around the woman's neck and a large ring without a stone on one hand.

Bill Miller, "FBI Enters Murder Mystery Probe," Rocky Mountain News [Denver, CO], 2 October 1952, pg. 5.
<snipped & BBM>
A new element of mystery was injected when a Denver Tramway bus token was found near the woman's body, indicating that she had been in the city recently.

[...]

No bullet or bludgeon was visible in the remains. But Detective Holindrake said a nearby rock carried stains which might be blood. The stone was brought to Denver for laboratory tests. Officers theorized the woman's head may have been battered against it.

[...]

A number of fired gun cartridges were found in the vicinity, but officers said these probably have no bearing on the murder. They said the area is commonly used by hunters and others for isolation.

Other items found were a man's ring without a stone, a few blackened shreds of clothing, a safety razor and a few strands of brown hair.

Dave Stolberg, "Man Hunted in Pyre Murder," Rocky Mountain News (Denver, CO), 3 October 1952, pgs. 5-6.
<snipped & BBM>
A second search of the murder site yesterday by Sheriff Kenneth McKenzie of Gilpin County and Deputy District Attorney William McNeill uncovered the burned remnants of a July 15 issue of "Look Magazine."

Dr. Ogura reported his autopsy disclosed the woman's skull had been shattered by a blow.

[...]

Found, in addition to items mentioned previously, were a broken hand mirror and a Denver Tramway token.

Jack Gaskie, "Science Fails to Identify Slain Woman," Rocky Mountain News (Denver, CO), 3 October 1952, pg. 6.
<snipped & BBM>
His [chief coroner's pathologist Dr. George Ogura] most important finding was that her skull had been fractured, probably by a blunt instrument. Police had already found at the scene a bloody rock that may have been used to batter her head.

Jack Gaskie and Dave Stolberg, "All Leads Fizzle in Murder Probe," Rocky Mountain News (Denver, CO), 4 October 1952, pgs. 5-6.
<snipped & BBM>
Mr. Hackethal [Deputy District Attorney] said he is convinced the murdered woman is not from Denver or the neighboring counties.

"With any widespread interest in this case, any such missing women would have been reported. I think the victim was from well outside our area."

[...]

Meanwhile, Dr. George I. Ogura, chief coroner's pathologist, said the victim's bones had bleached so far as to make three weeks ago a likely time of death.

[...]

Easily distinguished are the prominence of the upper teeth, the irregularity of the lower. Upper right is a big ulcerated cavity in a molar, and a small cavity in the next molar. Lower left are an impacted tooth, and a space where a tooth was removed and nearby teeth moved into part of the gap.

Bill Miller, "Lie Test for Finder of Pyre Corpse Slated," Rocky Mountain News, 7 October 1952, pg. 6.
<snipped & BBM>
Officers theorized the woman was lured to the death site, bludgeoned to death, and her body placed beneath a log. The killer then poured inflammable liquid over the log and set fire to the log.

Jack Gaskie, "Break Due Today In Pyre Murder," Rocky Mountain News, 9 October 1952, pg. 5.
<snipped & BBM>
The shotgun was turned over to Sheriff Kenneth McKenzie of Gilpin County by Myron Teagarden, police chief of Boulder.

The gun was found near the murder scene a week ago Saturday––three days before the body was found.

[...]

The sheriff said it was a 16-gauge Winchester shotgun in good condition. Its butt, he said, had stains that looked like blood.

[...]

The gun was found about 70 feet off Colorado Highway 119. A few miles to the south was the abandoned gravel pit where the body was found.

Nearby is Missouri Gulch, where [C.E.D.] lives. Mr. [D.] is the 31-year-old carpenter who found the body a week ago Tuesday.

He has since been quizzed extensively on two things––his story that he cut six months ago the log thrown over the victim's body and set afire, and his admission that he revisited the scene at least twice since his discovery of the body.

Mr. [D.] Tuesday submitted to a lie detector test, results of which were termed inconclusive.

Using the same archive, a lot more questions about the case were answered for me. I always wanted to know more about that bust that was made, as all I knew is that it was made between 1952 and 1954 in Denver. Turns out it was made in October 1952 by artist Dexter Landau and dentist Charles Grover. There was also another photo of the bust.

Pyre Victim's Head Shown in Wax Sculpture - October 17, 1952
Interestingly, Landau also made the sketch of the woman that is considered more accurate.

The best discovery made was mentioned in the quoted post, that being her teeth. It's not great, but it's better than nothing. I presume this is the photo of the teeth I spoke about upthread.

Spoiler: REAL TEETH PHOTO