CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #11

[carbuff]

I can't find anything regarding dog tracking to or from anywhere. So for me, and not saying everyone else should view it the same, I will not bother to speculate on dogs and the backpack.

That sounds like the right idea.

 

[JustyThoughts]

I heart you sooo much nurse. Thank you! :blowkiss: I say I always agree with you bc I honestly do, we're always on the same page on these cases.

Side note: They definitely ruled out the dude from WY? Wondering how...

Hi Jersey Girl.
Reply re: BBM part above. I read on that forum (maybe it was a news link) sorry I do not have the link to post here.... that his truck was seen on camera in some part of YS park (10/7 - I think) and the timing would not have been possible.

 

[izzyblizzy]

Investigators have stated that this perp seemed to be taunting them with the placement of the backpack, right? Also the place where her remains were left could indicate taunting. If the perp is taunting le it leads me to believe Jessica was likely targeted, that he knew her routine and had seen her before and planned ahead.
So, what kind of person taunts investigators and or the public? This is common on fiction but how common in real life? Anyone know any examples of criminals who have done this? I am wondering what the motivation would be. It would seem that this person is not only a petophile but also a planner, taunter, local knowledge, murderer, dismemberer, and game player. Have we seen that in the past? It seems so much like a fiction plot.

I am kinda still thinking an engineer type that works at the windmill/energy farm north of where the body is found (think he lives in the area west or southwest of Denver, but travels around rocky flats back and forth). Also think he is frustrated in his career and thinks he is smarter than managers above him and thinks he is smarter than the police. I think we have seen that before with BTK in Wichita. He used to send little puzzles to media.

Of course this is all just speculation, and I have no idea better than anyone else. Just based on my own mind running wild

 

[insatiable]

Which rec center was the alleged sighting with the pillow pet?
Do we know if Jessica was involved in any sports or clubs or what her extra curricular activities were?
When she did take the bus before where was that bus stop located?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

you don't have to agree with me.. at all! LOL... I am only saying that the word that they used was "not intact" and that the media took liberties with that word. Could it mean dismembered? Sure it could. But it could also mean other things like animal activity and until they release more (LE) they have continued to tweet that they are the only official word on the case... not the media.

:moo:

Westminster Police ‏@WestminsterPD
Official information about the #jessicaridgeway investigation will only come from the Westminster PD and not outside sources.
Expand Reply Retweet Favoritehttps://twitter.com/WestminsterPD

It seems LE was either being 'tactfull', 'vaguely explicit' or both in using the phrase: "not intact."

'Tactfull' is understandable, given it was a public forum and certainly within family member's earshot.

'Vaguely explicit' is also understandable, to describe a condition without being to aggressive and given how LE holds close-to-the-cuff any information deemded important to identifying / convicting a perp.

Which is more important .. protecting the feelings of family or releasing vague information to help ensure perp identification? By using the phrase "not intact", LE has accomplished both IMO.

Some have reported a typical or even 'heavy' coyote presence (which suggests animal involvement in what was described) in the discovery area but one could also assume animal presence could be at a minimum since the area is a 'popular hangout' for teens and a destination for curisosity seekers and history buffs.

That does not preclude the possibility but let's take in to account all that we (think) we know:

- LE announced JR's remains were discovered Wednesday, 10/10/2012.
- LE spokeman used the phrase "not intact" to describe the remains.
- LE announced identification would be forthcoming by Friday afternoon.
- Positive identification was announced Friday, 10/12/2012.

What tactical or other purpose would it serve if the remains were actually discovered earlier (one post mentioned an 'uncle' claimed the remains were discovered Tuesday evening) but LE chose to announce the discovery date as Wednesday?

LE was quite specific in stating positive identification would be announced by Friday afternoon. Wow .. they were quite accurate, yes?

What tactical or other purpose would it serve if the remains were actually intact enough to have elicited visual confirmation of identity on the day of discovery?


***WARNING*** graphic phrasing to follow:


Assuming the "not intact" condition was sufficient to prevent visual or other form of immediate identification and it was the result of animals, they would have had to have removed or damaged:

- all fingertips.
- facial features.
- teeth.
- feet / skin on bottom of feet and toes.

It would take either full-out 'luck' (read: misfortune) or conscious effort for all of the above to have occurred.

Does LE require more than one item of identification?

If the perp wanted to delay or prevent positive identification then conscious effort is more likely and possibly a taunt game is afoot.

If it was simple misfortune (animals) then there is no mystery. The perp simply dumped JR's remains and moved on.

Occam's razor: the simplest explanation is the most likely, right?

The perp abducted JR, then fill-in-the-blank, then left JR in the field.

But when dealing with the psychology of any specific killer and, given what has occurred with this case all bets are off and Occam's Razor must be applied within a much different context. Even the experts are not fully aware of what that context fully entails.

..... and it seems that is exactly what LE has with this case.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

It was an elementary school I think, and it really freaked me out. I still don't know what to think, but maybe the guy walked it to that spot on the sidewalk from there? And if her clothing or any of her remains were in the backpack, that would have left a scent, right?

If the school it was placed near is an elementary school, it may have been placed there so as to say "none of your kids are safe". A scare tactic? Something rubs me the wrong way, though... If its near an elementary school, wouldn't most younger kids be inquisitive enough to look inside of it?

 

[absentia]

I assumed they create the profile based on stats but also based on particular behavior of the perp. I trust their profile is much more specific and unique than they have released to the public.

Totally agree. The profiles all kind of sound the same, and the official FBI profile they released in this case is actually kinda of worthless because it is so broad. Just watch for "unusual" behaviour. I actually was kind of joking with my husband because I took him on a surprise birthday weekend the weekend she disappeared "You are a suspect because you left town suddenly Saturday morning!" (not a joking matter I realize, but it does seem like the criteria is so broad)!

But who knows maybe they are on to something and just giving the public something to do while they are gathering evidence on things they know way more about than we do!

 

[hollyblue]

I completely agree with your post. It's what I've been thinking as well. Maybe the coroner did the autopsy as much as they could, maybe dissected the lungs but couldn't rule on cause of death without the head /neck to compare the trachea. The ME might suspect strangulation or suffocation based on the lung evidence but to prove it he's need the head /neck. Maybe? Idk, speculating.

GRAPHIC:
LE couldn't identify her sex. Mutilation of the genitals or that lower half of torso was not connected to what was found. IMO

 

[Janeumayer]

Found the original post re. the dogs following the scent to the school in Superior.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8427556&postcount=744"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8427556&postcount=744[/ame]

 

[nursebeeme]

http://goo.gl/maps/eYU8A

on the map I made I did my best to include dates and times of searches. If you look at Ketner lake and Standley lake they were searching those on the late afternoon of the 6th... if you look closer... that is getting mighty close to where her remains were discovered (note that other evidence may have been found where they moved the command post to standley)

two hours later
sometime after 1845 on the 6th
-------

then sometime between the hours of 1845 on the 6th and 2330 ish the backpack is standing up on the sidewalk six miles north of Jessica's house in the opposite direction that the searching of the open spaces was taking place (and canvasing of her neighborhood). After the backpack was found on the 7th the searching started to focus on those open spaces well over 10 miles away from where she ended up being found.

After looking at the map again closer I am thinking that the perp did it as an attempt to redirect the searching away from the area. Was it to take the heat off so he could get out of the area undetected to get rid of evidence? Or was it to draw the search away from where he had already disposed of evidence? I am not sure on that... What we do know is that he had that backpack in his possession and instead of throwing it away he planted it. He didn't get rid of it but planted it.

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

If the school it was placed near is an elementary school, it may have been placed there so as to say "none of your kids are safe". A scare tactic? Something rubs me the wrong way, though... If its near an elementary school, wouldn't most younger kids be inquisitive enough to look inside of it?

I felt this same way, or even "this will be my next target", like breadcrumbs.

 

[izzyblizzy]

If the school it was placed near is an elementary school, it may have been placed there so as to say "none of your kids are safe". A scare tactic? Something rubs me the wrong way, though... If its near an elementary school, wouldn't most younger kids be inquisitive enough to look inside of it?

It was placed over the weekend. I have heard "unofficial" reports that boys were playing on the football field on Saturday. But have heard it was placed in the evening of Saturday (after dark). Of course all these "reports" are not necessarily accurate because LE isn't talking that much. But in any event, children woudn't be going back and forth to school.

 

[GulfCoastKAT]

I think it's possible something of her was placed in that backpack.

I don't. The guy who found it probably would have called the police straight away if something of her was found in the backpack. He didn't. Instead he listed the find on the listserv until he was told Jessica was the missing girl from Westminster. He went through the booksack, IIRC.

 

[absentia]

not as many Subaru's as Seattle! lol

It was kind of a joke ... just stressing that CO seems to have a less diverse assortment of cars than other states do, including a higher-than-normal percentage of Subarus and SUVs.

 

[NC Analyzer]

If the school it was placed near is an elementary school, it may have been placed there so as to say "none of your kids are safe". A scare tactic? Something rubs me the wrong way, though... If its near an elementary school, wouldn't most younger kids be inquisitive enough to look inside of it?

It was placed at that location sometime Saturday evening up to possibly as late as 2am Sunday. I'm thinking closer to the later hour so as not to be noticed and thus, no children around to look inside.

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

GRAPHIC:
LE couldn't identify her sex. Mutilation of the gentials or that lower half of torso was not connected to what was found. IMO

I agree with this. When we were being shown the scene from the helicopter live, it really only looked big enough to be a torso only. Unless legs were being covered by grass, all I saw was something the size of a torso.

 

[NC Analyzer]

http://goo.gl/maps/eYU8A

on the map I made I did my best to include dates and times of searches. If you look at Ketner lake and Standley lake they were searching those on the late afternoon of the 6th... if you look closer... that is getting mighty close to where her remains were discovered (note that other evidence may have been found where they moved the command post to standley)

two hours later
sometime after 1845 on the 6th
-------

then sometime between the hours of 1845 on the 6th and 1am ish on the 7th the backpack is standing up on the sidewalk six miles north of Jessica's house in the opposite direction that the searching of the open spaces was taking place (and canvasing of her neighborhood). After the backpack was found on the 7th the searching started to focus on those open spaces well over 10 miles away from where she ended up being found.

After looking at the map again closer I am thinking that the perp did it as an attempt to redirect the searching away from the area. Was it to take the heat off so he could get out of the area undetected to get rid of evidence? Or was it to draw the search away from where he had already disposed of evidence? I am not sure on that... What we do know is that he had that backpack in his possession and instead of throwing it away he planted it. He didn't get rid of it but planted it.

That's the same direction my theory has been going. Makes perfect sense when you connect the dots.

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

I don't. The guy who found it probably would have called the police straight away if something of her was found in the backpack. He didn't. Instead he listed the find on the listserv until he was told Jessica was the missing girl from Westminster. He went through the booksack, IIRC.

Well this brings me back to the question I had earlier last week...did he open the backpack? Or was her water bottle in a side pocket? If it was just in a side pocket, maybe he didn't even open it up.

 

[tlcya]

I agree with this. When we were being shown the scene from the helicopter live, it really only looked big enough to be a torso only. Unless legs were being covered by grass, all I saw was something the size of a torso.

I feel the not intact state of the body is not due to scavengers or predation. I feel the corpse was abused, most likely dismembered for the same reason you cite above. I saw that video, to me it looked like a smaller child's size or partial remains (torso being most likely).

LE has only said not intact. On the other hand, they have made no move to disabuse the press from the notion of dismemberment or "hacked up" as NG so delicately put it the other night on her show.

In my mind, undisclosed sources are not enough for me to name the means or cause of the not intactness. While I believe what I believe, I am trying to make sure I describe dismemberment etc as "alleged"

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

What type of backpack was it? Victorious? I'm not saying THIS is the backpack, but here is an example of what I was talking about. Her water bottle could have been in one of those mesh side pockets like the one here

http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/...772875-_-kw-&gclid=COvgyIGahrMCFQmmPAode2IAuw