CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #12

[hlegate]

yes but why such a specific date?

doesnt seem right to me as a parent. i would want a specific date if that makes sense - perhaps its just me.

Thanks for the welcome. I lived about 5 or so miles from the anthony house back in 08-09 even before CA went missing and ever since then I found this site and have really just been trying to keep up. These boards move quicker than BBC which I thought would never happen.

 

[Tokalu]

LE could very well have a person in mind, however I'm sure that because of the nature of this case, we're not going to catch wind of it until the person is arrested or charged.

I doubt that this person is an illegal immigrant. I think he fits in and is accepted in the community, he leads a double life. Also, I am convinced this case is related to the other abduction attempts in the area, in which the suspect was a white man. IMO, He has a car, he is "normal" looking, he is average in appearance doesn't draw attention to himself ....

 

[spamelope]

I wondered about the date, too. While I imagined the pastor was told to say certain things to goad the monster, I was appalled when he said that the communities are safer than ever. When he said that, I'll bet 8 Feds pulled out their guns and shot the TV. They were reported in the paper earlier as basically saying there's a monster out there, and keep a close eye on your kids.

 

[LisaB]

Most people have instincts that dictate how they react. My first instinct would be to fight, kick, scream, anything to attract the attention of others or just run. But some people might just freeze when a gun or a knife is pressed to their back. Most children would do the same, it's not in their basic instinct to fight back, usually. And even if you have hammered it into them over and over to fight and scream, they are not always going to remember that, especially if a perp tells them "make a move or a sound and I'll kill you." Fear is a strong emotion and will dominate a person's mind at the moment of danger, causing them to do the exact opposite of what they've been taught.

On another case, someone expanded upon this. In order to make yourself as unappealing as possible to the perp, wet your pants. The guy is less likely to want you in his car. If you can, defecate as well. And if you've recently eaten, stick a finger down your throat and vomit on him. Also, do NOT scream "help," scream obscenities. A child cursing like a sailor will draw plenty of attention.

 

[mimmy03]

I so agree with many posts on here.
I DO think her body was frozen before this dismembered it.
I DO think it's someone in the general vicinity...AND within the school "system".
IMO, I honestly believe this person thinks they're so darn smart and are just so proud of themself and their "handy work".
I believe they think they "blend in" so well, they'll NEVER be considered a suspect.

I have been on vacation the last few days, so trying to catch up on this case. I have seen it mentioned about another school the dogs tracked to? Were they tracking Jessica's scent, or the perp's? Many are mentioning the possibility of the perp working in the school district.... What about a substitute teacher? They go to different schools and can easily have a day off from work... As simple as not taking a job that day. Maybe somebody who subbed Jessica's class? Maybe she mentioned how her mom sleeps during the day bc of working nights so she is unreachable?

 

[LisaB]

I don't know for sure, but she was discovered while maintenance workers were cleaing out the culvert. We have also heard that there was something, like maybe a piece of the black plastic bag, snagged on the barbed wire fence, and that some remains were found on the grassy area. That suggests to me that an animal moved the bag containing the remains. An adult that could place the remains in the culvert could also lift them over the barbed wire fence. Furthermore, it seems to me that anyone that will go to the trouble of dismembering the body (not intact) is going to great lengths to cover his tracks. What he didn't count on was that animals may try to take the remains to a different location.

Why has the search for the remaining parts, not found at the original body dump site, been suspended? Is it assumed they are in possession of the killer? Or that they were destroyed completely and will not be found at all?

 

[tezi]

nurse, I think your idea about checking the searchers (I'm sure there was a list) is an excellent idea.

With that thought, I'm going to take a small vacation from the thread today...I have to watch the weather because we are under a tornado watch...What happened to Fall?

 

[Jax49]

On another case, someone expanded upon this. In order to make yourself as unappealing as possible to the perp, wet your pants. The guy is less likely to want you in his car. If you can, defecate as well. And if you've recently eaten, stick a finger down your throat and vomit on him. Also, do NOT scream "help," scream obscenities. A child cursing like a sailor will draw plenty of attention.

Gross but effective. I personally know someone who realized she was being stalked in a parking lot at 3 am (shift worker). She did the finger down the throat trick and the guy turned and ran.

 

[TNGirl615]

I have been on vacation the last few days, so trying to catch up on this case. I have seen it mentioned about another school the dogs tracked to? Were they tracking Jessica's scent, or the perp's? Many are mentioning the possibility of the perp working in the school district.... What about a substitute teacher? They go to different schools and can easily have a day off from work... As simple as not taking a job that day. Maybe somebody who subbed Jessica's class? Maybe she mentioned how her mom sleeps during the day bc of working nights so she is unreachable?

I can totally see it being someone in the school system. Here in TN, a bus driver has been put on administrative leave due to taking pictures of children. After being grilled for hours, he finally admitted to having a problem with young children and needs to get help. SCARY!! This has not made the news, I got info from the inside. It was probably someone she thought she could trust. Another thought I keep thinking is it could have been a deranged teenage boy. Teenagers are capable of this, thinking of the Adrianne Reynolds case.

 

[absentia]

at 13 my friend & I used to do the same, hanging out on the town green at night, waving at guys in passing cars.

I remember taking some risky chances when I was growing up, but things were so different back then. My best friend and I would walk a couple miles to and from town on a busy highway at night and wave at truck drivers who would honk their horns at us. If my parents had ever found out we were out walking after dark, and waving at truck drivers, they would have grounded me for the rest of my life!
I've never been in a situation like you described, I take it you and your friends accepted a ride with a stranger? With 3 of you, I doubt he would have been able to subdue all of you at one time unless he had a gun, but you did the right thing when you all jumped out of the car.

ETA: I was replying to Bravo's post, but forgot to quote, and several more posts were added after hers.... just so you all won't be confused.

 

[JodyMT]

About the date of death: I would think the mother would want to believe that her daughter died quickly instead of being held and possibly tortured. That may be why the date of death is the day she disappeared. Or, of course it could be the evidence or the FBI telling her that statistically, a person is killed the same day of the abduction.

 

[absentia]

when I was young and walking the city at night, I used to just talk to myself outloud to sound crazy to keep people away.

Gross but effective. I personally know someone who realized she was being stalked in a parking lot at 3 am (shift worker). She did the finger down the throat trick and the guy turned and ran.

 

[Footwarrior]

Why has the search for the remaining parts, not found at the original body dump site, been suspended? Is it assumed they are in possession of the killer? Or that they were destroyed completely and will not be found at all?

The search team is still active, but has moved on to different areas.

 

[Yellow]

It might take a super long time to analyze but if they have approximate times when he was in 3 locations (abduction, book bag drop and drop site) might there be cameras on businesses, etc that could show cars? I am not sure if any locals on WS might know? I imagine they might be near JR home and Superior but maybe not at field.

Yet if there are cameras, I hope LE is going through the frames to see if maybe there is a car that might be at all three sites at the indicated times. Could take awhile to do.

I remember on Oprah they said NEVER go to a second location when there is an attempted kidnapping. Nothing ever good comes of going to the second location. Fight to stay at the first location.

 

[Bravo]

I remember taking some risky chances when I was growing up, but things were so different back then. My best friend and I would walk a couple miles to and from town on a busy highway at night and wave at truck drivers who would honk their horns at us. If my parents had ever found out we were out walking after dark, and waving at truck drivers, they would have grounded me for the rest of my life!
I've never been in a situation like you described, I take it you and your friends accepted a ride with a stranger? With 3 of you, I doubt he would have been able to subdue all of you at one time unless he had a gun, but you did the right thing when you all jumped out of the car.

ETA: I was replying to Bravo's post, but forgot to quote, and several more posts were added after hers.... just so you all won't be confused.

My Parents did kill me LOL My Dad was friends with many LE. I dont know what his plan was but he said "We are all going Parking" and put his hand on my Girlfriends knee. It was a nano second reaction when i bailed out of that car. He was headed down a desolate road so i knew one of us was in trouble if the others ran for help.

 

[absentia]

yah, that sums it up, even though we're not right in the immediate area.

A non-graphic write-up from the NYT on the sense of fear in the community:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/17/u...aves-community-heartbroken-and-edgy.html?_r=0

 

[TNGirl615]

It might take a super long time to analyze but if they have approximate times when he was in 3 locations (abduction, book bag drop and drop site) might there be cameras on businesses, etc that could show cars? I am not sure if any locals on WS might know? I imagine they might be near JR home and Superior but maybe not at field.

Yet if there are cameras, I hope LE is going through the frames to see if maybe there is a car that might be at all three sites at the indicated times. Could take awhile to do.

I remember on Oprah they said NEVER go to a second location when there is an attempted kidnapping. Nothing ever good comes of going to the second location. Fight to stay at the first location.

Agreed. I saw on another news website they have over 4,000 leads to sort through. It's gonna take a while. The good thing is, is that they have an approximate time of abduction and can focus on that time with nearby surveillance footage.

 

[JodyMT]

When I think of the chances I took when I was younger, I am very grateful that I didn't meet a horrible end. One time me and a friend decided to walk home from Junior High along the railroad tracks. Took us hours to get home and my poor mother was beside herself with worry. I feel so horrible now for what I put her through on that day.

My car broke down one time and I accepted a ride from a man. He said he didn't want me on the street getting hit or accept a ride from someone who would do me harm. I am very grateful that he did have my best interest at heart since I still shouldn't have got in the car with him. I hope my own daughter and son have more sense.

When I was a teenager I met a guy at a party that I liked. We talked for awhile when he asked me if I would like to ride with him to his father's feed store to pick up something. Boy when I think of how stupid I was to leave the party with him. He was very nice and we rode to the feed store together and he brought me back to the party. It could have ended much worse. Again, I hope my kids have more sense.

When you are young and no one has told you any different, you never imagine anything could happen to you.

 

[DizZ]

SBM

I agreed with the vast majority of your post and snipped out what I wanted to add comments on.

Depending on the exact location of Jessica's remains in relationship to the road and the state of those remains, it may be that it was placed there as soon as Friday (more likely after dark).

In my experience, people vastly overestimate how much they see when they are driving. Even if the car is just creeping along at 10 mph, a passenger tends to have the illusion they can see everything they could if they were walking but they really can't. My impression is that the stretch of road Jessica's remains were found on had a speed limit much higher than 15 mph, maybe as high as 55 mph (locals?).

If her remains were such that they didn't form the outline of a human body or the angle in relationship to the road was such that people on the road didn't see the outline of a human body, then many people could have passed her remains without realising it. For instance, people tend to readily catch a full frontal or full rear outline of a body but do not easily identify a body seen from the angle of the feet looking towards the head.

Also, drivers should be paying attention to the road. If her body was visible near the road, then I'm actually pleased that drivers didn't spot it because that means they were paying attention to driving. I don't know about Colorado but in Iowa, this is the time of year when many animals are spotted or killed on roadsides because the young animals have mostly left their mothers and all the animals are travelling to forage before winter sets in. Drivers should never forget that they are controlling a large and potentially lethal machine that warrants close attention to what they are doing.

As for digestion, it slows down and stops within the first 30 minutes or so of death. It does depend on age, on the person's body mass, on what was eaten, activity level after eating, etc. It can vary widely.

Time of death can be estimated but it is only an estimate and may not be even remotely correct, depending on the specific circumstances.

For instance, my father is an anesthesiologist and I clearly remember him describing one case he saw in surgery. A man whose ulcer had created a lot of scar tissue such that it blocked off the outlet of the stomach waited several days to see his doctor and had rather non-specific symptoms. My father was amazed to see the surgeon remove the clearly recognisable remains of the whole orange that the patient had eaten 8 days prior to the surgery. My father said that it looked and smelled like an orange with very little digestion evident.

The patient survived the surgery and I hope he enjoyed telling the tale. It was certainly a strange incident but it illustrates that food can survive inside a human stomach for quite a long time without showing significant evidence of digestion. If that man had been killed 7 days after eating that orange, his time of death would probably have been estimated as occurring within hours of eating the orange but that would not be correct.

Eventually whatever was in the digestive tract will decompose along with the body but decomposition is distinctive from digestion.

Hi GranneDhu

OMG - the surgery about the man with the orange sounds like my dad's surgery many many years ago. When doc came to talk to us he described it as he just delivered a baby (orange). Was this in Louisiana?

 

[absentia]

thanks for this. I agree someone took advantage of JR trying to be a grown up. like they flattered her and developed rapport.

also, I'm a huge animal advocate, so a lost animal would get me involved too. but it's a great idea to ask all those questions. pretty quick you can tell that something doesn't add up if it's wonky.

I'm always approached by people in stores b/c of my DD. by men, women and older people. not approached but they all look, smile and comment. I was pissed at Walgreens yesterday picking up an RX - they asked me last name, its spelling and my street address with people in line behind me and my DD at my side. later I realized I should have written it down for them and then torn up the paper.

What a hero. Thanks for sharing the link, Soulmagent. Hopefully that guy is still locked up?

I had to take a break from this for a while. I was watching a movie that included many child abuse/rape scenes, and it really upset me and made me mourn even more for Jessica. Normally things like that don't affect me on such an emotional level, (I've been a true crime junkie for years), but then yesterday evening it came out on the local news here that a woman witnessed a child being abducted in broad daylight. Their bike was left behind on the street. But, the LE can't figure out who the child was. Anyway, I was just overwhelmed with anger and sadness yesterday ... it is a very dark, scary world out there.

I'll bet the perp was at the memorial. If not at the actual service, maybe he drove by or stayed close to the area in hopes of seeing her family.

On another tangent, I walked to the store yesterday afternoon. On my way, I was thinking what someone could approach me with that would give me pause. Normally I ignore men TOTALLY (I'm married & I watch too much Criminal Minds ... :rocker, whether I'm walking, in line at the store, at the gas station ... if it's a group conversation or a simple "How are you? Nice day isn't it?" I may nod or smile... that's it though, even if it seems innocent or just small talk, I never want to give someone that opportunity to catch me off guard. Now, Jessica wasn't hyper vigilant about RSOs and strange men (I'm sure she was aware, just not to the degree that an adult would be IMO).

The only thing I could come up with that might be plausible in this situation is the "lost puppy" scenario. I know there was an attempted abduction in the area using that ruse. It didn't work that time, so maybe he did things to make it seem more truthful ... printed out a picture, bought a leash ... Personally, I am an animal lover, and I have had animals lost in the past, so if someone were to ask, have you seen my dog?, I would at least stop and look at the photo from the outside of the vehicle. Most people drive around when their dog is lost. However, a ten year old may not take the proper precautions. If it were me, I'd be asking lots of Q's. Where do you live? Is that where it got lost? Does it come to it's name? What is your phone number so I can call you if I see it? A ten year old might have been lured into the car to go look, or something of that nature. I'm chilled when I remember Jessica's family stating that she liked to pretend to be grown up ... someone probably took advantage of that fact.