CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #12

[goaskalice]

Holy cannoli! ... But why is that time stamped October18? Isn't that tomorrow?? But I agree what is going on?

No link to Jessica so far though.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Still praying for Jessica's family. Praying for all her loved ones.
Hoping to read soon that her killer is found and arrested.

 

[spamelope]

Clint van Zandt? That is who we are discussing right? He is on all kinds of programs for YEARS! I find it hard to believe people haven't heard of him on boards of this type. But yeah he is basically a media type "profiler".

Basically on the same level as the woman who goes on those same types of shows and "profiles' ... pat brown (??? might be wrong o the name).

Anyway, I take them all with a grain of salt.

Um, no. That's like comparing Michelangelo with the Spanish lady who "repaired" the picture of Christ.
:moo:

 

[SuziQ]

When I made a general statement about it (interest in detailed (graphic) crime scene photos), it was because there was a certain feeling of judgement or shaming made by posts in the opposing viewpoint. i.e., that there was something wrong with people who wanted to know all the (graphic) details. I don't believe there is value in attempting to shame people for it. Especially not on a website that is literally devoted to the study of violent crime.

And let me add that these (graphic) details is the only voice victims have left. Any horror that we may experience by learning these details to wrap our minds around what happened and why, pales in comparison to what the victim went through. We do a deservice to crime victims by cleaning up and ignoring the truth.

 

[winterrose]

The meth angle crossed my mind. He has a gas mask but if he was into meth why was he selling it? Unless he got the new improved model! Does one need potassium cyanide to make meth?

Wow, I am really going o/t. I will hush now!

potassium cyanide
n.
An extremely poisonous white compound, KCN, used in the extraction of gold and silver from ores, in electroplating, and in photography, and as a fumigant and insecticide.

I'm wondering if he was using it to extract gold or silver from old mines. He's homeless and has lived from Boulder to Centenniel, so maybe he's been trying to get money that way. Awful young to be homeless, also, he was only 22 when picked up in Boulder at the homeless shelter.

 

[northxnorthwest]

I know some people were curious about the "white van" and the driver turning the gun on himself on the WA/BC border so here is a linked article explaining what happened.

I doubt it is related to Jessicas case as the driver was a 32 year old tattoo artist and somewhat new WA resident from Las Vegas. No one (including his family and friends) knows why he drove to the Canadian border just to shoot the attendant and turn the gun on himself, suicide by border patrol or was he running from something and couldn't get into Canada?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/10/17/bc-border-shooter.html

 

[goaskalice]

A little background for you on Clint Van Zandt.

Clint Van Zandt, a former US Army Counter-Intelligence Agent and a Vietnam War veteran, retired from the FBI in 1995 after 25 years of service, ending his career as the FBI's Chief Hostage Negotiator and a Supervisor in the Bureau's Behavioral Science or better known "Silence of the Lambs Unit."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7256927/ns/msnbc_tv/t/clint-van-zandt/#.UH9bKFEw-So

He was the chief hostage negotiator and coordinator during the 1987 siege at the Oakdale, LA. Federal Correctional Facility; the 1987 siege at the Atlanta, Ga. Federal Prison; the 1991 prison riot at Talladega Ala. and many other similar situations. He also provided on-site coordination for negotiating the release of a U.S. citizen held by Columbian guerrillas and another kidnapping involving an American oil company executive held by terrorists in the Philippines.

Prior to joining the FBI Van Zandt was a Special Agent with the U.S. Army Intelligence and is a Vietnam War veteran.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/waco/clintvanzandt.html

Yep, he is great!

 

[GrainneDhu]

Awesome! Science lessons for free! I need to go see those.

Seriously, do! Walking along those rut marks really gave me a sense of history, of what it was like to be moving away from family and friends, hoping to find a better life. A good part of the trip, everyone but the driver walked, to save the burden on the livestock, because they were used to walking and because those wagons rode like they had wooden wheels.

And if you go with a geologist, you can learn all sorts of truly mindboggling things about the earth, everything from the top to the magma underneath and what it is all doing.

 

[MLO]

Argh, I just picked up my big three kids from school today and they told me they had a very important letter that I needed to read. Can you guess what it said? Little girl followed from school in a white van or truck!

I've been reading these threads for days while comforting myself with the fact that we are on the other side of the world. I've been planning on going over our stranger danger rules soon butit looks like I will do it today. I don't think my 9 year old DD will walk to school anytime soon, not until her two brothers are bigger at least!

 

[KellysGal]

I know some people were curious about the "white van" and the driver turning the gun on himself on the WA/BC border so here is a linked article explaining what happened.

I doubt it is related to Jessicas case as the driver was a 32 year old tattoo artist and somewhat new WA resident from Las Vegas. No one (including his family and friends) knows why he drove to the Canadian border just to shoot the attendant and turn the gun on himself, suicide by border patrol or was he running from something and couldn't get into Canada?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/10/17/bc-border-shooter.html

I had mentioned this earlier that i was wondering if the two might be related. He could have committed the crime and headed to canada to get away but realized that he was going to get caught and rather than get caught and serve time he ended it all. JMO

 

[GrainneDhu]

Ari looks an awful lot like the Candy POI:

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2010/03/ari_misha_liggett_weird_chemic.php

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20639202,00.html

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingn...-centennial-son-arrested-body-parts-back-seat

Kind of off topic: back in 1991, right after Jeffrey Dahmer had been arrested and there was huge publicity about him, a friend and I went to the dog shows in Milwaukee.

While we were waiting between classes, she and I started playing a game: spot the men who looked like Jeffrey Dahmer. It was amazing how many men had a vague overall resemblance to Dahmer.

I think the candy luring guy has the same sort of face in the sketch. It's generic with nothing that really stands out. Paired with the awareness that it is a sketch from descriptions, I think it's easy to see resemblance to many people because tiny deviations can be rationalised away.

My friend and I took the points in each of our breeds and my guy won best of breed out of the classes, so we went home happy.

 

[GrainneDhu]

(Anyone else here get nervous/paranoid about the google searches you end up doing as a result of this thread? Everything from body recovery sites to potassium cyanide. Sigh. )

Yeah, I figure if I am ever a suspect in any serious crime from bank robbery to serial murdering, I'll be toast after they look at my google history.

Plus, they'll think I'm a hypochondriac from all the health conditions I look up.

And they'll think I'm crazy about crafts.

Okay, the last part would be no mistake.

 

[GrainneDhu]

His complexion is probably due to meth. His mother is or was a nurse.

I think it could also be the remains of teen acne. I can remember a lot of people from when I was that age whose acne gradually improved until they were finally rid of it in their late 20s. This guy is 24, so he might have a few years to go.

Or maybe times have changed and there's some new treatment of teen acne that gets rid of it fast and for good as soon as it pops up?

 

[GrainneDhu]

You can't match a blue-eyed man to a brown-eyed one. It just doesn't work.

Coloured contact lenses can do it convincingly but I think they are expensive to use just for a disguise. Plus, I think that is more something a woman would think of than a man.

 

[koalabear]

Argh, I just picked up my big three kids from school today and they told me they had a very important letter that I needed to read. Can you guess what it said? Little girl followed from school in a white van or truck!

I've been reading these threads for days while comforting myself with the fact that we are on the other side of the world. I've been planning on going over our stranger danger rules soon butit looks like I will do it today. I don't think my 9 year old DD will walk to school anytime soon, not until her two brothers are bigger at least!

MLO where are you located? Im in Melbourne. I lived in the next suburb over from Westminster in Colorado for 7 years. We moved back to Melbourne almost 2 years ago before my oldest started school because I was so determined she go to school in Australia where this type of thing is much much less prevalent. But this goes to show how we all have to be extra vigilant with our kids. I think of all the times I went out to play in my neighbourhood when I was a kid, sometimes by myself, and it makes me cringe sometimes. Was I just lucky or have times changed so much since then?

 

[GrainneDhu]

If LE is saying this guy isn't connected this fast, I swear I'm starting to think they know what the guy looks like or something that is having them throw it out so fast. A possible suspect pops up and wham, they say it's not him. They know alot more than what they're telling.

Either that or the hour between 8 am and 9 am on a Friday is easy for most people to produce verifiable alibis for.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

Samantha Runion was for me the first child abduction case to really grip me. She was found off of a road I travel often to visit my parents. Long before (as in years) Samantha Runion's body was discovered on Killen Trail, the name itself would always gave me a horrible feeling. Sadly when her killer chose to display her remains on this same trail...I obviously wasn't the only one who felt that way and thankfully, neighbors petitioned to have the street renamed.

Danielle Van Dam is another child abduction that gripped me as well especially to discover how close by her killer was to her and how he intermingled with the search for her.

Makes me wonder which neighbor will be the one who's responsible for Jessica...

Both very sad cases as I was living in San Diego at the time. And I never would have suspected the same person that killed Amber DuBois killed Chelsea King. When I look at that monster, I think this is like what we're dealing with here with Jessica.

 

[GrainneDhu]

People interested in that subject should read The Psychopath Next Door, which includes a lot of the most recent research into the subject.

Another good book is Simon Baron-Cohen's The Science of Evil: On empathy and the origins of human cruelty. Particularly if you enjoy looking at the possible physiological bases for lack of empathy.

I find it interesting that his cousin is Sacha Baron Cohen, the comedian who did the movie Borat. I haven't seen the movie but after reading many (probably overly revealing) reviews of it, the hook in that movie seems to be to set people up to humiliate themselves. Which takes a certain amount of cruelty to do, knowing their humiliation won't just be in the moment, it will be displayed for laughs to millions of people.

 

[spamelope]

I can't add any new theories or ideas to what has already been discussed. It's very possible this news video (link below) has likely been posted/discussed, but I keep re-visiting it... I find the orange paint (markers) on the road interesting (did the perp park across the road and walk over to the fence/culvert?), as well as the blue tarp. (imo: I think the interesting part starts @ approx 1:00).

http://kdvr.com/2012/10/11/video-closer-look-at-arvada-park-where-workers-found-body/

Thank you for posting this! This is the kind of thing I think we should be focused on. There is clearly evidence on the road showing that he crossed the road to the the culvert and came back. I think the arrows indicate possible blood spatter and the direction they came from. I think it's interesting that he took the time to cross the road at least once, while doing such a critical chore. Since there are two clear pathways in the road, did he make two trips? This monster took extra time to place the body across the street, crawling under a barbwire fence. I think it was so the body would be on the embankment nearer to eye level, and more observable. He wanted her found.
I think we can safely assume he came from Highway 93 since he was heading east. Again, an area that is heavily populated and very close by, but has received little attention, is Coal Creek Canyon. There are 13 RSO's in the area. (I was relieved to see I don't know any of them!) Also, there were two movies filmed in the area, "Under Siege 2" with Steven Segal, and "Switchback" with Dennis Quaid playing an FBI agent, and Danny Glover a serial killer. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119210/

 

[MLO]

MLO where are you located?

we are in Perth, near where Gerard Ross was taken which was the last truly scary thing that happened around here. When I was 7 we moved to Tasmania for 5 years, we live in a small town and had a ridiculous amount of freedom, even at 7. When we moved back to Perth my mum was so freaked out about us even playing in the front yard, even though before we left she would let me play outside and walk the streets at 5 and 6. I always wondered if Perth had really changed that much or if her perception had changed since having lived in a sleepy farm town for 5 years.

Until a year ago we lived in the NT and our kids had a bit of freedom there, even though it isn't the safest place. We lived on a military base though so that is probably why we felt safer.