CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #12

[MLO]

But this goes to show how we all have to be extra vigilant with our kids.

I agree. It has always been something I have been worried about (and my husband is paranoid about), but even while reading Jessica's thread I have been upset and extra vigilant but at the same time really believing that this would never be a threat for us. Silly, I know.

My DD was reading a magazine that had a story about rape, so on the back of that and the school letter home I took the opportunity to talk to the kids. It is rather scary because my 5 year old boy is rather cocky and doesn't see the danger because he is sure he would never be lured away and could fight off any attack. My 9 year old is very cautious and sensible but also a people pleaser. I had to reassure her it is ok to be rude and to walk away from someone who calls her over to look at a picture or for a dog, even if they are putting on the water works.

 

[goaskalice]

Here are some links for this person. A map from Centennial to Westminster as well as the article about his arrest yesterday. I am certain they will find out where he was on that day. Because he is bat crazy he is being held without bail.

Please, someone find the person who hurt little Jessica. He just can't hurt any one else. Praying for her family.lease:
http://www.distancebetweencities.net/centennial_co_and_westminster_co/route

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingn...centennial-son-arrested-body-parts-back-seat>

 

[Foxfire]

GrainneDhu Quote:
I think it could also be the remains of teen acne. I can remember a lot of people from when I was that age whose acne gradually improved until they were finally rid of it in their late 20s. This guy is 24, so he might have a few years to go.

Or maybe times have changed and there's some new treatment of teen acne that gets rid of it fast and for good as soon as it pops up?

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingn...-centennial-son-arrested-body-parts-back-seat

<sorry if this has been posted already: breaking news
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21796579/missing-centennial-son-arrested-body-parts-back-seat>

RE: Liggett is being held without bond in the Arapahoe County Sheriff's Office Detention Facility on suspicion of first-degree murder.
The Sheriff's Department said an earlier search of the family's home turned up a a quantity of what appeared to be potassium cyanide, a poisonous compound, though laboratory tests have not yet been concluded.
Liggett has been in the news before.
In March 2010, he caused a seven-hour evacuation of a homeless shelter in Boulder after bringing in a suspicious chemical in his suitcase. The chemical was never publicly identified, and Liggett was not charged with a hazardous material violation. Instead he was arrested on a warrant alleging possession of a dangerous weapon from Arapahoe County.
He pleaded guilty to reckless endangerment last December and received a four-year deferred sentence and one year of probation, records show.
(Read more)

'margarita25, the mug shot/photo of Liggett, indicates meth use, imo'. 'Imo, chronic meth use creates psychopathic personalities & deviant behavior..and increases libido'..

Potasium cyanide is used in illegal meth manufacturing..
Acid jars rigged to mix with potassium cyanide crystals to create hydrogen cyanide gas are used near clandestine meth labs. Meth makers have been known to rig meth lab sites to ambush LE or other intruders..

http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/eh/meth/lab/mchesley.pdf
METHAMPHETAMINES:
an epidemic of clandestine labs and health risk

 

[sean62185]

Interesting about the close calls. I am so thankful sometimes that I have even been able to make it to 27. My wife and I wanna have kids maybe within the next year. All this about stranger abductions and stuff is just so scary. I think almost everyone is fortunate we have made it into adulthood alive, and hopefully name too messed up from childhood Experiences.


All these stories have me thinking. I was a terrible teen, my parents were broke and I had weighed to 3 different high schools because of constant moving, by the time I was a sophmore. I was having problems, so my mom and dad let me live with my aunt and uncle in Westminster for almost 4 months in October of 01, just post 9-11.

I took a greyhound, and along the way, we had stopped for about 4 hours in Vegas, till the next bus came. I was 16, and I think about his often, and especially when i hear about kids or teens just disappearing. But I remember his clear as day, I couldnt gamble I had no money and was underage, waiting for the bus.

Well I was standing at the station, which I believe at the time was between downtown Vegas and the strip. Kind of a dirty area. But within walking distance of all the hotes. Anyway, I was standing there, and I was approached by an Asian man. In height he was much smaller than me. I have a thin build, same as I did back them, I'm about 6' 150-160. This man was easy 6 inches smaller than me, and and about the same build. He talked to me with a real calming voice, asked me my name, how I was, where I was going. Small talk you know.

I had told him where I was going what I was doing. He then started to insist I came with him to his room, be had food, and a comfortable bed to sleep in, if I wanted to take a nap before my bus had arrived. I told him no.. obviously. He insisted, I am a white guy from southwest Phoenix, I instantly knew this guy was up to no good. I was not going to be bullied or cohersed into. Something. I stood up, in his face and I told him no.

I turned around and went into a bus station, and stood next to the cop who was inspecting bags and stuff (this was post 911). I wish now I would of said something.

Maybe a half hour had passed, and I was less on edge. I felt that sixth sense, and got the creeps like someone was watching me. I looked around the room, and saw the Asian man. Just looking at me blank faced, but was talking to another teenage boy probably 13-15. As he is talking to him, he was still looking at me.

I am sorta haunted to this day about it. I love the Vegas experience now that I am an adult. Now I am even more freaked out by the event, knowing what I know about Vegas(nobody goes to hangout at grey hound stations looking to feed people and give then a place to sleep. Especially, know what I know now, and how many creeps are running around out cities.. I could of been Jessica, or any of the other kids who suffered and had their lives cut short by the monsters.

Sean

PS: sorry if words or jumbled and don't make sense. I type this out on my Droid and it has a mine of its own

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thank you for posting this! This is the kind of thing I think we should be focused on. There is clearly evidence on the road showing that he crossed the road to the the culvert and came back. I think the arrows indicate possible blood spatter and the direction they came from. I think it's interesting that he took the time to cross the road at least once, while doing such a critical chore. Since there are two clear pathways in the road, did he make two trips? This monster took extra time to place the body across the street, crawling under a barbwire fence. I think it was so the body would be on the embankment nearer to eye level, and more observable. He wanted her found.
I think we can safely assume he came from Highway 93 since he was heading east. Again, an area that is heavily populated and very close by, but has received little attention, is Coal Creek Canyon. There are 13 RSO's in the area. (I was relieved to see I don't know any of them!) Also, there were two movies filmed in the area, "Under Siege 2" with Steven Segal, and "Switchback" with Dennis Quaid playing an FBI agent, and Danny Glover a serial killer. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119210/

I vaguely remember reading that LE also uses spray painted arrows when a crime scene is near a paved road as markers for followup investigation. It may have been a holdover from before everyone and their brothers had GPS systems. It may not be done any longer. However, I think there is a chance that it is, since things tend to linger institutionally for quite a while after technology seems to make them obsolete.

So I'm not sure anything can be deduced from the use of spray paint arrows in this case. Maybe there was evidence on the road, maybe they are just acting as convenient markers.

 

[belimom]

What is the difference between a sociopath and a narcissist?

Antisocial Personality Disorder (commonly called sociopathy, although to be considered a sociopath, the symptoms are usually more severe): to summarize, these folks basically have a disregard for others, for society. Don't think they have to 'follow the rules', don't feel the same emotional response/empathy for others - hence not understanding the pain they are inflicting on others.

Narcissism: while caught up with their self-importance, these individuals usually do feel empathy for others, can relate and have relationships better than ASPD above. There can be comorbidity, meaning you can have both. In general, these folks are very sensitive to criticism and anything that may suggest they are not as important as they think they are. These are the people who embellish stories to make themselves sound good, have grandiose thoughts of their accomplishments or how wonderful they are, expect constant admiration, etc. BUT they do not necessarily have a disregard for society/others.

Both of these disorders are personality disorders (Axis II), which are in the same category as developmental disorders, rather than a clinical syndrome (Axis I) like depression or anxiety. The distinction is that a personality disorder is more pervasive - it is who you are, all the time. Something like depression or anxiety are symptoms that you exhibit some of the time and which can often be controlled/healed with therapy (counseling, meds, etc).

Hope this helps - I've been quite general about it. If you really want to know the clinical diagnostic requirements, google DSM-IV-TR or take a look here:

ASPD

Narcissism

 

[21merc7]

sean;

Thank you for sharing that scary story. I hope the other teen was spooked too, and I know that is what you meant by wishing you had told the cop.

When you have children, tell them this story just as you have here, along with all you have learned along the way about staying safe.

I found library books helpful when mine was small, even for the birds and bees stuff. Then Nickelodeon came along with some good things, like the Magic Johnson show talking to kids about Aids. My DD asked to watch it, I said sure! So we even got to talk about that. Guess now youtube would have helpful videos, or just the internet in general, to get talks going in the intended direction.

Thank you again for sharing such a personal and significant life experience.

 

[Foxfire]

Good evidence that he's probably a local then. And it's sick that he'd put a body there then, well even more sick than I guess it already is.

I wonder why LE thinks he's a local?

I was always under the impression he knew the area but didn't love there because I thought it would make you way too easy to get caught, put it seems most perps don't think that way.

danzn16, behavioral profiles are only one tool utilized in abduction/murder investigators. Seems obvious that the unknown suspect in Jessica's abduction/murder is experienced and no stranger to the game.
Profiling is not an exact science and seldom are profiles 100% accurate. Imo, there are too many indicators & variables that point to a stealth sexual predator from another geographical area.

'For those who believe, no proof is necessary and for those who disbelieve, no proof is possible'..
Stuart Chase

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/investigators/serial_killers.html#4

4. Victim Selection
How does a serial killer select victims? The traditional school of thought holds that generally they select victims based on certain physical and/or personal characteristics. This assertion presupposes that, within the mind of each serial killer, there evolves synthesis of preferred characteristics and, ultimately, a clear, specific picture of his "ideal" victim, be it male or female, black or white, young or old, short or tall, large busted or small, shy or forward, and so on. Then, when that "typical" serial killer begins an active search for human prey, he will go to certain lengths to capture and victimize only those individuals who closely fit the mold.

Unexpectedly, I have observed that most serial killers never actually find and kill their "dream victim."

When that ideal victim cannot be found, and when their internal impetus becomes powerful enough, they will settle for a substitute. Ignoring for a moment the disparity between deviant human and normal feline behavior, a serial killer can be compared to a hungry lion that lies in wait for his favorite meal.

Like the lion, a serial killer just will not defer acting out his urge to kill simply because his "ideal" victim refuses to materialize at his beck and call. But his reason for settling for something less divulges from that of the lion. There are two basic, interrelated reasons for this disparity. The first centers on the extra caution exercised by a serial killer in his search for a victim; the second, upon the nature of the compulsion that drives him to violence.

Addressing the former reason first, it can be said that a serial killer is among the most alert and cautious of all human beings. Such caution can be explained by his foremost concern, that being to carry out his activities without being caught, that he may continue to enjoy his pursuits.

read more-

 

[JodyMT]

It's bad enough when a child or adult goes missing, then killed and it is learned that someone they know or a relative did the abduction and murder. But usually in those kinds of cases, it is contained. The perp is not looking to go out and kill others&#8230;usually.

In this case, this person is a predator. I have no doubt he will do this again and that he enjoyed it. He enjoys messing with the cops and the family. This kind of monster just does it for sport.

I really hope the cops are watching Jessica's mother's house on Halloween. I wouldn't put it past this guy to return her remains to the front door as a cruel joke.

 

[danzn16]

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/more-time-could-be-added-elisa-bakers-prison-sente/nSgTh/

OT but I thought those of you who followed the Zahra case would like to see this. I didn't follow the case closely but I know of it because it was in my home state. I didn't know she just got 15 years? :what: How is that??? But now may get 20 for Rx drug charges. Good.

 

[otto]

Just wondering something about Pattridge Park and the old mines there...
Didn't I read that high school kids go there at night ? (to drink beer? and be daring?)

Kids from which high schools?
Maybe the perp had first hand knowledge about that area because he used to go up there himself? And knew that it would be quiet and deserted on a nasty night?
With a fairly low chance of being seen while throwing out a garbage bag there.

There might be some way to look at old year books, eliminate some students, and still be able to check a manageable amount of ex-students? Too many?

Isn't that interesting ... drawing another parallel ... the secluded spot where Lyric and Elizabeth's bikes were found was a former high school party spot. I wonder if perps know of these places ... not because they went there as teens ... but because they went there as peepers and to look for vulnerable girls.

 

[TripleA]

Can anyone please catch me up on just the bulet points of the last two days? Anything new actually happening? Or is it just the same old stuff being rehashed?

 

[kkdj]

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/more-time-could-be-added-elisa-bakers-prison-sente/nSgTh/

OT but I thought those of you who followed the Zahra case would like to see this. I didn't follow the case closely but I know of it because it was in my home state. I didn't know she just got 15 years? :what: How is that??? But now may get 20 for Rx drug charges. Good.

She should never ever be set free. This is one of the most disturbing cases I have ever studied. This case makes me sick to my stomach till this day every time I think about it!
Never let this woman free! Something is seriously and disgustingly wrong with her!

 

[SurfieTX]

BTK's first trigger:

He was a poor student, even by his own description, a chronic C minus or D level. He couldn't spell very well and may have had a learning disability reflected in his unusually bad written grammar. In late 1973 he was let go by Cessna. He found himself in a low frame of mind, unemployed, unhappy, with time on his hands. He slipped deeper into the fantasy world he had known since childhood and wanted to know: what would it feel like to strangle somebody to death?

In January, 1974 Dennis Rader was in between jobs and restless. His wife worked at the VA Hospital in Wichita and didn't like driving in snow and ice, so Dennis would sometimes drive her to and from work. He enjoyed "trolling", which consisted of driving or walking around certain neighborhoods or school campuses where there would be women to observe. He would focus in on a good prospect and enter into his fantasy realm of bondage, torture and death, imagining what he would do to her. Bind them, torture them, kill them.

Much more at link: http://dennisraderbtk.blogspot.com/

 

[Sigh Sister]

As it is a known fact that serial killers often have a history of torturing/killing animals, I did a little search and found the following stories. Some or all of these cases have probably already been discussed here, so forgive me if they have. Thought I'd just throw these out there.



Link re: Scott Andrew Graham from Arizona suspected of killing and mutilating 40 cats:

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/regio...inst-Scott-Andrew-Graham-in-cat-killings-case

Link to 2003 serial cat killer in Denver which I don't believe was ever solved:

"Police are concerned that the person or people responsible could start attacking humans next, since many*serial murderers (search)*begin by killing animals."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,90954,00.html


Link to August 2012 cat mutilations in Denver:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/cats-found-decapitated-gutted-in-denver-yards

Link to story about Timothy Arie Kooyman of California who was released over the summer after serving time for torturing and killing cats:

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012...ut-impending-release-of-convicted-cat-killer/

Here's another link with a pic of him and more info on his crimes:

https://www.pet-abuse.com/profiles/13882

This link quotes Kooyman's mother as saying he will not be living with them. Wonder where he is living?

http://fridayflyer.com/2012/05/18/timothy-kooyman-not-to-be-released-in-riverside

 

[Wishbone]

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/more-time-could-be-added-elisa-bakers-prison-sente/nSgTh/

OT but I thought those of you who followed the Zahra case would like to see this. I didn't follow the case closely but I know of it because it was in my home state. I didn't know she just got 15 years? :what: How is that??? But now may get 20 for Rx drug charges. Good.

Absolutely disgusting that she could get more time for poss of rx drugs than for murder of Zahra, the dismemberment and scattering of her remains.

 

[kkdj]

Isn't that interesting ... drawing another parallel ... the secluded spot where Lyric and Elizabeth's bikes were found was a former high school party spot. I wonder if perps know of these places ... not because they went there as teens ... but because they went there as peepers and to look for vulnerable girls.

Eeeww! Creepy!
When I was a teen my boyfriend and I were "making out" at nighttime in a Park. Suddenly a "street clothed" cop warned us of a perp in the neighborhood.
We left immediately, but we always felt creeped out by the guy that approached us.

 

[Etilema]

I'm not seeing this one. The suspect (photo not drawing) is very striking looking with full lips, square jaw, prominent eyebrows and unusual eyes. The drawing guy looks much older/plainer, eyebrows and lips different shape, slightly receding hairline, etc.

I agree he looks striking. Even something about the expression, the look out of his eyes. But, of course, the sketch is based on an interpretation of what was reported by kids, and isn't based on having actually seen the guy. And the sketch does not contradict the appearance of guy in the photo. (The lips are full, for example, and the eyes in the sketch always did strike me as a little off.) Not saying I believe it is the same person, just saying that it *could* be.

JMO

 

[Etilema]

Eeeww! Creepy!
When I was a teen my boyfriend and I were "making out" at nighttime in a Park. Suddenly a "street clothed" cop warned us of a perp in the neighborhood.
We left immediately, but we always felt creeped out by the guy that approached us.

Yeah, that's a lot like that horror story (the kind told at sleepovers) in which a couple run out of gas and the guy leaves the girl in the car to walk to a gas station. A cop stops and tells the girl that there is a murderer on the loose in the area and it transpires that he was he killer, himself, and had killed the boyfriend already.

 

[Kavya01]

A new day.
Praying this will be the one when a crucial connection is made or that valuable tip is called in. hone:

I am just so thankful for all those law enforcement people that are working so diligently to get justice for Jessica and to remove an insignificant failed little maggot forever out of civilized society. :seeya: