CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #14

[~n/t~]

Have not read this thread yet, so I'm late weighing in. Will try to catch up when I have time. Please forgive if this post rehashes ideas already suggested.

Re the cross:

It's actual size is much smaller than it appears in the photos, at 1.5 inches long. However, for jewelry, it is by no means tiny.

To compare, the diameter of a Hershey's kiss is about 0.8 of an inch; the short edge of a credit card measures about 2.2 inches. IMO the right size for a cord necklace or rosary, or perhaps a keychain.

The cross might be too imperfect to have been sold/purchased, but you never know. IMO it looks possibly homemade by someone practicing their woodcarving skills, perhaps self-taught or learned in boy scouts?

Boy Scouts woodcarving:
http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges/mb-WOOC.aspx


If it is varnished, the varnish looks to be worn or dull. However IMO it appears it might be coated with polish or wax instead of varnish.

The color of the wood is darker than is typical for these types of carved items. Possibly polished walnut, or a dark wood from South America or Africa.

Example of a handmade polished walnut wood cross (unvarnished):

Unlike the example above, the shape of the evidence cross somewhat resembles a tau cross. Sometimes associated with pagan or ancient mystery cults, but whoever made it may have simply liked the shape.

Meaning of the Tau cross:
http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/crosses/antau.html


Example of cross with Tau-shaped arms:

http://www.autom.com/images/large/RC302.JPG

Note: A cross of this shape can be associated with the zodiac sign Taurus.
Cross of Tau - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Re the markings on the cross:

Front and back markings appear to be purposely made.

The three marks on the front could possibly represent a Satanic "666", as follows:

The Hebrew symbol for the number 6 is the vav. In cursive or sans-serif rendering this looks like a simple vertical mark.

Hence, three vertical marks can be "code" for "666."


The Hebrew letter Vav:
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_One/Aleph-Bet/Vav/vav.html

An example: Some believe the three vertical claw marks on cans of Monster energy drinks have a subliminal 666 meaning. The motto "Release the Beast" appears on the can.
http://truthbydefault.com/monster-energy-drink-indoctination/


Though the zig-zag marking on the reverse side of the cross is not formed as carefully as the three vertical marks, IMO it too appears to be deliberately made.

It could be in the shape of the satanic "S."

Satanic "S" Represents a lightning bolt that means "Destroyer". In mythology, It was the weapon of Zeus. Worn to have power over others. Also was worn by the feared SS of Nazi Germany.​

http://www.exposingsatanism.org/signsymbols.htm

Some think this is the hidden meaning of Harry Potter's forehead lightning bolt.


This is not to say that I believe these marks represent satanism. It is hard to discern the significance or meaning of this cross and the marks it bears, much less its connection to this case. The above was an attempt to find some meaning in common between the marks on the front and on the back.

Very interesting information and I think you may be onto something.

Is it small enough to be worn as an earring?

http://shop.minimummouse.com/gemstone-cross-earrings-1847-p.asp


ETA: I'm wondering if perhaps Jessica yanked it out of his/her ear or he/she could have had the cross as a "trophy" from another victim?

 

[~n/t~]

Good Morning all,

Ok so according to the Denver Post this morning Jessica WAS found in a plastic bag which will lead me to believe that she was not placed but thrown over that fence and that is was done quickly.
I do not know how to link but the article says the trash collectors were on maintainence clean up and found the bag which they did not think felt right. At that moment an animal control was going by and they most likely thought someone had thrown a dead animal or something, that was the person that looked in the bag.
This also prompts me to believe there was no blood at the scence as it was all contained in the bag.

Where was she murdered? Do you think the murder scene was somewhere else and then she was placed in the bag?

 

[insatiable]

Informative post. Thank you!

Have not read this thread yet, so I'm late weighing in. Will try to catch up when I have time. Please forgive if this post rehashes ideas already suggested.

Re the cross:

It's actual size is much smaller than it appears in the photos, at 1.5 inches long. However, for jewelry, it is by no means tiny.

To compare, the diameter of a Hershey's kiss is about 0.8 of an inch; the short edge of a credit card measures about 2.2 inches. IMO the right size for a cord necklace or rosary, or perhaps a keychain.

The cross might be too imperfect to have been sold/purchased, but you never know. IMO it looks possibly homemade by someone practicing their woodcarving skills, perhaps self-taught or learned in boy scouts?

Boy Scouts woodcarving:
http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges/mb-WOOC.aspx


If it is varnished, the varnish looks to be worn or dull. However IMO it appears it might be coated with polish or wax instead of varnish.

The color of the wood is darker than is typical for these types of carved items. Possibly polished walnut, or a dark wood from South America or Africa.

Example of a handmade polished walnut wood cross (unvarnished):

Unlike the example above, the shape of the evidence cross somewhat resembles a tau cross. Sometimes associated with pagan or ancient mystery cults, but whoever made it may have simply liked the shape.

Meaning of the Tau cross:
http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/crosses/antau.html


Example of cross with Tau-shaped arms:

http://www.autom.com/images/large/RC302.JPG

Note: A cross of this shape can be associated with the zodiac sign Taurus.
Cross of Tau - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Re the markings on the cross:

Front and back markings appear to be purposely made.

The three marks on the front could possibly represent a Satanic "666", as follows:

The Hebrew symbol for the number 6 is the vav. In cursive or sans-serif rendering this looks like a simple vertical mark.

Hence, three vertical marks can be "code" for "666."


The Hebrew letter Vav:
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_One/Aleph-Bet/Vav/vav.html

An example: Some believe the three vertical claw marks on cans of Monster energy drinks have a subliminal 666 meaning. The motto "Release the Beast" appears on the can.
http://truthbydefault.com/monster-energy-drink-indoctination/


Though the zig-zag marking on the reverse side of the cross is not formed as carefully as the three vertical marks, IMO it too appears to be deliberately made.

It could be in the shape of the satanic "S."

Satanic "S" Represents a lightning bolt that means "Destroyer". In mythology, It was the weapon of Zeus. Worn to have power over others. Also was worn by the feared SS of Nazi Germany.​

http://www.exposingsatanism.org/signsymbols.htm

Some think this is the hidden meaning of Harry Potter's forehead lightning bolt.


This is not to say that I believe these marks represent satanism. It is hard to discern the significance or meaning of this cross and the marks it bears, much less its connection to this case. The above was an attempt to find some meaning in common between the marks on the front and on the back.

 

[VLISAE]

(friend J says he's pretty sure when they walked into the school, she stopped to talk to a teacher named Miss Krouse(sp?), she's a teachers aide, can't confirm if she actually went inside, per teacher she was not in class today, all kids say she was not in class today and had no plans for the weekend, teacher confirms she saw her walk into the school but she was not in class)



LINK
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

The boy was mistaken and later reported he had been confusing the prior day with that morning. No one ever saw her in the school.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

Found this site about hand crosses:

http://stores.palmcrossesbyron.com/StoreFront.bok


I googled religious goods stores in Denver, CO. Yellow pages says there are 176! That may not include the smaller non-profit crafts of the world stores that would also have these, or just any craft shops that may make them.

IMO, all the "palm crosses", "tau", etc, have a more rounded edge, the edge is smooth and almost "soft", if you will.
That's what makes it comforting. It feels good in your palm. You can turn it over and over and actually "grasp" it. Almost like the different polished gem stones people hold in their palms for strength or comfort. Each different type of gem is used for different emotions/ailments.
The picture of the jewelry "twint4goat", post #1065, is more like the cross found....blunt edges...and a size that would be for a necklace or bracelet.

I don't know if anyone else did the same thing, but I took a piece of paper and made my own "cross" using the dimensions given and the shape.
Gives me a better perspective of the size, I can hold it in the palm of my hand, see which type of jewelry/talisman it is, as well as, how LE meticulously cleaned the crime scene. IF, in fact it was from the remains site.

Again..just my opinion.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

So if she walked to the friends home- not the park- and they had already left for school, could a neighbor have seen her and offered a ride?





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[GrainneDhu]

BBM

That's the funny thing about sociopaths ... they come in two categories. Primarily, they are control freaks with freakish ideology, but they fall into either the category of low lifes, as you describe (low social skills), or highly successful, cut throat, ruthless business leaders with charming social skills.

I think that the "low social skills" association with aducting children FBI "report" relates to someone with a low IQ that only inappropriately wants to be with young girls. We're dealing with an adult like that ... I think ... one that is higher functioning than the 14 lyear old mentally challenged village idiot ... low social skills, but sociopathic in the sense of beliving himself smarter than everyone.

I think you're right.

I also think the reason why psychopaths with higher IQs don't tend to be serial killers (I can't think of a single serial killer with an IQ of over around 125 on the Stanford-Binet test) is that they are smart enough that their frustration level is low. (tangential observation: but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to put your entire national economy in the hands of such people!)

When I think of the tightrope gang members walk in all their associations with their gang, let alone interactions with members of rival gangs, this perp just wouldn't be able to do it successfully. It's too complicated, it requires too much intricate give-and-take, etc. It requires too much self-control from someone who fundamentally is unable to see why the world can't just rotate around him and what he wants.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

And looking at the case map on page 1, I don't see the friends home listed.

Can anyone recall the location?

Thanks


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[GrainneDhu]

I'm pretty sure that the murder of Jessica has absolutely nothing to do with Buddhism, Christianity, Muslimism, or Judaism.

The scratches on the cross that the murderer lost at the crime scene, by all appearances, have nothing to do with religion. The three lines do appear to be marks that were deliberately scratched on the surface. Police are interested in anyone that has similar markings on other belongings. The three scratches on the front of the cross and the three zigzag lines on the back probably mean something to the murderer ... but I doubt that it has anything to do with anything beyond sentimental value.

Personally, I like my theory that the cross belonged to someone named Isidore Isaac Ickes at one point.

Just because it amuses me to think what sort of family would give their child that name. Or what sort of person would choose the name for themself.

I apologise to any Isidore Isaac Ickes reading this that I may have offended.

If anyone decides to give their baby this name, don't say I inspired you. I am definitely more a cautionary tale than an inspiring moral.

 

[Etilema]

And looking at the case map on page 1, I don't see the friends home listed.

Can anyone recall the location?

Thanks


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It was said earlier that we are not allowed to mention/show the home of a minor. Someone did have a map up at one point, and it showed what looked like a circuitous route from Jessica's house to the boy's house, leading her out of the way compared to if she had walked straight to school. According to the article it was about 1000 feet from her house to his. The whole thing seems to have been in a residential area, and it went by or through Chelsea Park.


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[Etilema]

So if she walked to the friends home- not the park- and they had already left for school, could a neighbor have seen her and offered a ride?





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Seems there are two possibilities:

1) She was abducted on her way to the friend's house, which is why she didn't get there by the time they expected.

2) She got there after they left so decided to walk to school and was abducted somewhere between the friend's house and the school. (Did the witnesses who claimed to have seen her outside the school that morning later become less confident?)

Whether at some point someone she knew offered her a ride or whether a guy just grabbed her (as with the women and boy who were attacked) we don't know.

JMO


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[Etilema]

I think most don't care, but it's very important in Judaism. It's why organ donation is so low in Israel.

But what would that have to do with the case? (And knowing a little about the organ donation thing, I can tell you that the reason it is low is not because of needing to bury the parts, but because of the fear that an organ may be taken while the person is still alive, since normally organs are taken from people on life support.)


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[Sigh Sister]

Just getting home from work, but I wanted to bring forward these two posts I made from yesterday:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8479633&postcount=313"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #14[/ame]


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8479660&postcount=317"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #14[/ame]

Now that we know her remains were found in a trash bag disposed along the side of the road, I think a possible connection between Janine Johler's murder and Jessica's needs to be explored. One mistake I made in the first post is that Janine was actually from Aurora, but found in Glenwood Springs. I plan on researching this more in the coming days, but wanted to throw this out there again. One problem is that there is so little information on Janine. I'd be interested to hear what others think.

I'll Be going to bed soon, but will read and reply to any responses when I'm able.

 

[Etilema]

He had to be organized....
He kidnapped a child without being seen.
He killed the child without anyone --that we know of, hearing or seeing anything.
He dismembered the body ....no crime scene found....no blood....that we know of.
He disposed of the body without being seen.
LE doesn't know who he is.
He's escaped arrest.......

I say he's pretty organized. :moo:

It could be that, or it could be that he was someone she knew well enough to lure easily, killed her in some remote location, like the woods (of which there seems to be a lot around there), and dumped off her bag and body as quickly as possible, without thinking through what would happen, and didn't even notice that he had lost a piece of jewelry in the process. In my opinion, either one (organized or didsorganized) is possible at this point.

JMO


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[21merc7]

IMO, all the "palm crosses", "tau", etc, have a more rounded edge, the edge is smooth and almost "soft", if you will.
That's what makes it comforting. It feels good in your palm. You can turn it over and over and actually "grasp" it. Almost like the different polished gem stones people hold in their palms for strength or comfort. Each different type of gem is used for different emotions/ailments.
The picture of the jewelry "twint4goat", post #1065, is more like the cross found....blunt edges...and a size that would be for a necklace or bracelet.

I don't know if anyone else did the same thing, but I took a piece of paper and made my own "cross" using the dimensions given and the shape.
Gives me a better perspective of the size, I can hold it in the palm of my hand, see which type of jewelry/talisman it is, as well as, how LE meticulously cleaned the crime scene. IF, in fact it was from the remains site.

Again..just my opinion.

I agree.

I think it is either a pocket cross, or even one bought at a beading type craft store, perhaps was once a key chain. The bulk religious goods sites sell many kinds of pocket crosses and key chain crosses, but the pics are too small for me to see.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

I agree.

I think it is either a pocket cross, or even one bought at a beading type craft store, perhaps was once a key chain. The bulk religious goods sites sell many kinds of pocket crosses and key chain crosses, but the pics are too small for me to see.

ITA with you, LE mentioned anyone seen "wearing" or "displaying"...and, like you said, the "displaying" might be on a keychain, or even a hangie thing from a rear view mirror.

 

[TxLady2]

I'll ask again. Mom said she headed towards school. Which is one direction. Chelesa Park where she meets her friend to walk to school is in the other direction right?

So did her mom see her walk towards to school or towards Chelesa Park? If the friends house is on the way to Chelesa Park but not past it that would make sense. If it's past Chelesa Park that doesn't. Who walks past the normal meeting spot to a friend's so they can be driven to school, when the walk just to school itself is shorter?

Maybe her mom said she saw her walk out the door to school i.e. a general statement meaning she went out the door to go to school. But it's work knowing if she headed left towards the school or right away from it.

Don't want to add to the confusion but, wasn't it said early on that Jessica normally met a group of friends at the park and all of them walked together to school? I assume the park is somewhere between her house and the school, otherwise it makes no sense to walk the opposite direction just to meet friends. Maybe the boy she was meeting lives down a side street, but not all the way to the park.

 

[GrainneDhu]

What I posted was directly out of a news story. Maybe it's semantics but white or light skinned to me means white or light skinned hispanic or mixed. Medium build to me doesn't mean scrawny but instead muscular but not huge, some definition. You would think that there would be one of the witness drawing of the guy who tried to kidnap the 28 year old. They need to put that drawing out.

I have a feeling that this is a guy who wants to be around and involved with the search. The cross seemed to be left intentionally, the bookbag didn't appear until after midnight. I wonder if that area was searched prior too? I.E. after the searchers were told to go home for the night he went out with the bag to place it there.

The woman he tried to abduct may never have gotten a clear look at his face, just seen his hand and wrist (which would give skin colour). If it were me, once I manage to get free of him I'd be running as fast as I could, no chance to look back. Back when I was in high school, coaches taught that looking back slows you down; do coaches still teach that or is it okay for runners in competition to look back?

I think I read that the initial search perimeter was set up on a 5 mile radius from Jessica's home. The backpack was placed just outside that radius.

The perp could have known about the radius from taking part in the search or from listening to scanner chatter.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

Found this site about hand crosses:

http://stores.palmcrossesbyron.com/StoreFront.bok


I googled religious goods stores in Denver, CO. Yellow pages says there are 176! That may not include the smaller non-profit crafts of the world stores that would also have these, or just any craft shops that may make them.

I gotta tell ya something, I kinda just went over the description, BUT, it says...

When you lift up a loved one in prayer while holding the PalmCross®, your oils penetrate the cross, and you become one with it. When you give the cross away, you are then giving part of yourself as a symbol of love and support.

Now, IMO, that's kinda creepy. Sounds like a "keeper" to me, merc!!

ETA: A bunch of posters have mentioned getting DNA from the cross....seems, maybe, the jagged edges didn't matter to them, and in it's own way, WAS a "palm cross"....pain/abuse from someone who GAVE him the cross???
Guess I'm FINALLY pickin up what all you guys were puttin down.....

 

[elmomom]

Read more: Jessica Ridgeway: What happened to the Colorado girl? - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_2...way-what-happened-colorado-girl#ixzz29vz4FyKT
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Absolutely the best article I have read to date on the case. I tend to think that this was well-researched and well-sourced. Thanks for posting it!