CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #14

[MLE]

What are your thoughts on how a teen could have done this? I have a hard time believing a teen would be an organized killer as some experts have suggested. I think a teen would be very sloppy, leaving clues all over the place.

The killer appears to have been careless and appears to have left clues all over the place.

But that's not why I believe the killer is young. The cross just looks like what a young person would wear, and the way the perp appears to have marked his item with his first initial, but not his last makes it look like he still lives with his brother and maybe even his mommy. It also looks like he and his brother are still immature enough to argue over a crooked one dollar wooden cross, hence the need to mark it with an inititial.

 

[Sigh Sister]

The killer appears to have been careless and appears to have left clues all over the place.

But that's not why I believe the killer is young. The cross just looks like what a young person would wear the way the perp appears to have marked his item with his first initial, but not his last makes it look like he still lives with his brother and maybe even his mommy. It also looks like he and his brother are still immature enough to argue over a crooked one dollar wooden cross, hence the need to mark it with an inititial.

Not careless enough to be apprehended quickly, though. I just think a teen would leave a trail leading right to his front door.

 

[Pias]

The killer appears to have been careless and appears to have left clues all over the place.

But that's not why I believe the killer is young. The cross just looks like what a young person would wear the way the perp appears to have marked his item with his first initial, but not his last makes it look like he still lives with his brother and maybe even his mommy. It also looks like he and his brother are still immature enough to argue over a crooked one dollar wooden cross, hence the need to mark it with an inititial.

He may have been careless in some peoples estimation, but it seems he thinks he is smarter than LE imo. He appears to be an intellect to me, even before finding the symbolism previously posted. Yesteryear I would have agreed he must be older and have some experience, but these days I can no longer concur to that. An intellect of young age (self educated in the study of personal interests) might display similar traits to their older counterparts. JMO

 

[cluciano63]

I know it is has only been two weeks, but it seems like a long time for a child murder, at least for the cases we've seen here on WS in the past 2-3 years, for no arrest.

I am taking a guess that the cross did not provide DNA, since LE had to ask her mom if the cross could have belonged to Jessica. I am also guessing it must have been found very near her body, as otherwise, it could have ended up out there for any number of reasons, if the place was some kind of weird teen hangout. They must really believe it belongs to the killer.

Maybe even by now, LE has a good lead from releasing this news.At the very least, some new names to check out.

If he had been in prison for some non-sex related felony, would he have had to provide DNA? Thinking there are probably many states where he would not have had to do so, which means he could be a felon, just not in the "system", DNA-wise.

Anyway...crossing fingers.

 

[Teche]

there was also activity/possible find near standley lake (when they moved the command post over there).. see map (I included the time I believe... est)

There is a store in New Iberia, Louisiana called The Rosary House that has been opened for years. Our area is predominately Catholic. This company ships items on regular basis. They make rosaries, sell statues, prayer books, medals, etc. they supply items to churches, schools, etc. I wonder if they may have insight to providing info. that could help identify the cross.

 

[Foxfire]

"Even the most careful or intelligent predator will always leave signs of his presence and residue at the crime scene"..Imo, there is not enough info to predict the age or intelligence of Jessica Ridgeway's abduction/murder. He may have simply honed his skills over years or even decades. As we all know, stranger abductions by predators are the most difficult cases for investigators to solve. Hopefully the wooden cross will be the key to his identity and apprehension..

Locard's Theory:
Whenever two objects come into contact with one another, they each leave and take something..
19th Century, Dr. Edmund Locard, pioneer of the criminalists

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locard%27s_exchange_principle"]Locard's exchange principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Paul L. Kirk[1] expressed the principle as follows:

"Wherever he steps, whatever he touches, whatever he leaves, even unconsciously, will serve as a silent witness against him. Not only his fingerprints or his footprints, but his hair, the fibers from his clothes, the glass he breaks, the tool mark he leaves, the paint he scratches, the blood or semen he deposits or collects. All of these and more, bear mute witness against him. This is evidence that does not forget. It is not confused by the excitement of the moment. It is not absent because human witnesses are. It is factual evidence. Physcal Evidence cannot be wrong, it cannot perjure itself, it cannot be wholly absent. Only human failure to find it, study and understand it, can diminish its value."

 

[Pias]

I know it is has only been two weeks, but it seems like a long time for a child murder, at least for the cases we've seen here on WS in the past 2-3 years, for no arrest.

I am taking a guess that the cross did not provide DNA, since LE had to ask her mom if the cross could have belonged to Jessica. I am also guessing it must have been found very near her body, as otherwise, it could have ended up out there for any number of reasons, if the place was some kind of weird teen hangout. They must really believe it belongs to the killer.

Maybe even by now, LE has a good lead from releasing this news.At the very least, some new names to check out.

If he had been in prison for some non-sex related felony, would he have had to provide DNA? Thinking there are probably many states where he would not have had to do so, which means he could be a felon, just not in the "system", DNA-wise.

Anyway...crossing fingers.

In a study from CT that I was reading it suggests that the most likely prior or additional charge an SO might have on their record would be some form of theft/burglary/robbery as they are more inclined to cross personal borders. It doesn't really mean it would apply here or anything, but it did make sense.

http://www.ct.gov/opm/lib/opm/cjppd...mstudy/sex_offender_recidivism_2012_final.pdf

 

[Indy Anna]

IMO, that cross cannot be found at a local business. As others have mentioned, the workmanship is crude. The shape is asymmetrical. And it appears to be very old, as indicated by the pitting in the lacquer coating. I have found websites with dozens of wooden cross pendants, but none similar to the one found. None of the ones I've found appear shellacked like this.

I wonder if the cross was hand-carved by the killer's father or grandfather. I agree with others that the three vertical lines on one side probably represent the holy trinity. They appear to me to be part of the original design because they are smooth - unlike the three jagged lines on the opposite side, which appear to be etched into the wood through the lacquer finish.

There is nothing Christian fundamentalist about human sacrifices. But, I wonder if the killer had been raised Christian, given the cross by a relative, and then later turned to the occult and altered the cross to reflect his new beliefs. The jagged line, or lightning bolt, is an occult symbol whose meaning is discussed here:
http://lewisdt.com/symbols/
(you have to scroll down away)
One symbolism is punishment by the gods. Makes me think this individual is unhappy with his life, feeling he was punished by God, and is taking his anger out on other people. Perhaps it gives him a sense of control; the sense of being a god capable of outsmarting any human. His behavior is satanic, to be sure.

 

[otto]

Sooooooooooo ... still trying to wrap my head around the latest developments ... but with the connections to the two attempted abductions and the cross ... the best I can come up with is ... chemical substance was used in the attempted abductions and perhaps the cross was taken from the perp at that time. The chemical substance attempted abductions have been loosely connected with Jessica, so perhaps there was evidence of that same chemical substance on her face, her backpack, or perhaps clothing in the backpack (if her clothing were in the backpack - don't know that for sure). I wonder if the cross is from the attempted abductions in 2010, or if it is connected with the location where Jessica's remains were found.

The cross is distinctive enough that someone would have seen the perp wearing it. Could it have been found with her backpack as some sort of absurd symbol that the perp associates with his crimes?

Do we know anything about why the cross is associated with Jessica's murder?

 

[otto]

IMO, that cross cannot be found at a local business. As others have mentioned, the workmanship is crude. The shape is asymmetrical. And it appears to be very old, as indicated by the pitting in the lacquer coating. I have found websites with dozens of wooden cross pendants, but none similar to the one found. None of the ones I've found appear shellacked like this.

I wonder if the cross was hand-carved by the killer's father or grandfather. I agree with others that the three vertical lines on one side probably represent the holy trinity. They appear to me to be part of the original design because they are smooth - unlike the three jagged lines on the opposite side, which appear to be etched into the wood through the lacquer finish.

There is nothing Christian fundamentalist about human sacrifices. But, I wonder if the killer had been raised Christian, given the cross by a relative, and then later turned to the occult and altered the cross to reflect his new beliefs. The jagged line, or lightning bolt, is an occult symbol whose meaning is discussed here:
http://lewisdt.com/symbols/
(you have to scroll down away)
One symbolism is punishment by the gods. Makes me think this individual is unhappy with his life, feeling he was punished by God, and is taking his anger out on other people. Perhaps it gives him a sense of control; the sense of being a god capable of outsmarting any human. His behavior is satanic, to be sure.

Maybe it was a school shop (industrial arts) project ... don't students make all sorts of strange things in shop class ... like pot pipes and other stuff that they think is cool?

 

[GrainneDhu]

You can get those crosses nearly anywhere. International non-profit stores, religious goods stores, headshops, flea markets, mall kiosks, you name it.

Smooth is right in that they are usually made of olive wood, sometimes soft stone-usually said to be of religious significance.

The three marks could have been put there by the owner as an initial, or to symbolize the three holies. Patterns of three are significant in Christianity. If you've never noticed before, the easiest way to start looking for it is the last few days of Christ.

They could also have been put there by the person that carved them, a lot of goods from other countries will have the initials of the maker etched in.

I doubt it's olive wood because it's been darkly stained. Besides the symbolism of olive wood, the attraction of it is the obvious figuring it has.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's pine or some other soft wood. It may even be recent enough to be Chinese boxwood (a soft wood that has recently become popular for trinkets).

 

[BlueIris]

Ok, I think I am officially losing my mind, but this is driving me nuts.

I swear, the cross with the marks on it, I've seen or read about it before. A movie, a book, a tv series, another case, something? Anyone, does it ring a bell to anyone else? At this point I'm not sure if it's from something real or fictional, but it is absolutely driving me nuts. I've been looking for the last hour, but every key word search I come up with all brings me to Jessica's case.

You're not thinking of the "Alex Cross" series of books are you? He wrote The Bone Collector...? But I think it was just his name, I don't recall a cross being featured prominently in his series beyond the fact that the lead investigator's ficticious name was Alex Cross....

 

[Foxfire]

There is a store in New Iberia, Louisiana called The Rosary House that has been opened for years. Our area is predominately Catholic. This company ships items on regular basis. They make rosaries, sell statues, prayer books, medals, etc. they supply items to churches, schools, etc. I wonder if they may have insight to providing info. that could help identify the cross.

http://www.holyfamilybooks-gifts.com/

*
Holy Family Books & Gifts
6690 Wadsworth Boulevard
Arvada, Colorado 80003


" Your Catholic Source"

Holy Family Books & Gifts opened on August 15, 1994 in response to the Holy Father's call to evangelization. The owners wish to promote the Roman Catholic Faith with solid, orthodox literature (Vatican Documents, Papal Encyclicals, Bibles, Books, Pamphlets, and Prayer Books, etc.).

We have knowledgeable employees, able to help those who have questions about the Faith.

The store also carries Baptismal, Communion, Confirmation, Gifts, Pictures, Rosaries, Medals, Prayer Cards, Statues, Crucifixes, Candles, 14kt Jewelry, Gift Certificates, Video, Audio Tapes and much more.

 

[Londonrraine]

Sooooooooooo ... still trying to wrap my head around the latest developments ... but with the connections to the two attempted abductions and the cross ... the best I can come up with is ... chemical substance was used in the attempted abductions and perhaps the cross was taken from the perp at that time. The chemical substance attempted abductions have been loosely connected with Jessica, so perhaps there was evidence of that same chemical substance on her face, her backpack, or perhaps clothing in the backpack (if her clothing were in the backpack - don't know that for sure). I wonder if the cross is from the attempted abductions in 2010, or if it is connected with the location where Jessica's remains were found.

The cross is distinctive enough that someone would have seen the perp wearing it. Could it have been found with her backpack as some sort of absurd symbol that the perp associates with his crimes?

Do we know anything about why the cross is associated with Jessica's murder?

The cross was found at "one of the crimes scenes in the JR case". They won't elaborate on where/when.

 

[Skully]

you are not alone. It has been driving me crazy for the better part of two hours now.

I wonder if the slashes on it are number of victims? The reverse could be victims that got away.

It looks homemade to me also. There were three people on the hill the day The Christ was killed. So maybe that is some symbol of the 3 sacrificed that day, but I think it is about his victims and his counting and keeping track of them.

 

[Londonrraine]

The cross was found at "one of the crimes scenes in the JR case". They won't elaborate on where/when.

http://www.boulderweekly.com/articl...lease-photo-of-cross-left-at-crime-scene.html

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I am so excited about this news, the cross should be recognizable by someone(s) close to him. Such huge news and so glad they have released it. Just throwing out my disorganized thoughts over why this cross could have been found:

Is he taunting?
Did Jessica hide it before she was murdered?
If it fell off, where is the chain or leather strand? How did it fall off, going over or under the barb-wire fence? Personally, I think he through the remains over the fence.


I don't feel there is religious connection.
Previous victim may have ID it or may have been hers & LE still had to ask Jessica’s parents to rule out she had one too.

I believe they think there is a strong connection as it was only a day or two and they were asking the public's help to remember the park on Memorial Day and released a description and it is obvious they had this cross all along.

YAY about DNA confirmation!!!! Which bring up more questions of....and if he accidentally lost the cross...imagine that could actually be his undoing!

Good morning, Dee10 and everyone!

I almost fell out of my chair when I saw the news of the wooden cross because I have one that is similar and of the same demensions. There is a flimsy metal ring that goes thru the hole at the top in order to thread a 'necklace' thru it, it would be easy to pull off in a struggle. ( I hope little Jessica gave him a good fight!) The cross that I have is more square edges and there are no marks on it.

I don't feel there is a religious connection either. I think this perp most likely wore it to instill trust in his victims by posing as a godly man. (if it is indeed his cross)

Ok I am waaaayyyyy behind and off to try and catch up.

RIP sweet Jessica! I hope they find who did this to you and make them pay bigtime!

moo

wm

 

[BlueIris]

Exif on the photos reveal:

Date Time Original 2012-10-11T11:51:49-06:00

Although it doesn't show the true color IMO better photo's are located at: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2220480/Jessica-Ridgeway-murder-Is-wooden-cross-key-finding-Jessicas-killer-Police-release-pictures-sinister-pendant-believe-belonged-man-murdered-Colorado-10-year-old.html

Something to consider. Police may have taken *other* photos of the item to be used as evidence or to be sent for analysis at a different point in their investigation. These photos may be a second set taken specifically in consideration of a public release. For that reason, we cannot say that the cross was found *after* the body was found, because we simply do not know this. We can say the *photo* was taken after her body was found, because the exif data confirms that. But we do not know that it was *found after* the body was found, or that it was *found* with the body, or if it was found earlier (eg: with the backpack).

If this was a photo police were going to use as evidence at a future court date, then I suspect that you would see other things on the photo:
-> indicators of the lines (eg: arrows on the screen, or circles around the lines) in an effort to point them out to a potential jury in the future.
-> you might see other things as well, perhaps a circle around the an area that was swabbed or scraped for some reason (evidence collection or scraped by whoever had possession of it before LE). The scrape in question is evident on the side that has the three straight lines, under the third line, on the right side, but I had to run it through LightRoom3 to be able to really see it, and still couldn't decide if it was a scrape, a swab mark or what.

Just pls keep in mind, this could be a secondary set of photos, not specific to the date it was found, or the location. The exif data only tells us it was photo'd after the body was found, not that it was found with the body is my point.

 

[MLE]

Not careless enough to be apprehended quickly, though. I just think a teen would leave a trail leading right to his front door.

He has been careless enough to provide his DNA. Older felons are often caught because they have a felony record and have provided DNA. This makes the perp look like a young guy who hasn't yet dropped the soap in prison.

 

[Sigh Sister]

Sooooooooooo ... still trying to wrap my head around the latest developments ... but with the connections to the two attempted abductions and the cross ... the best I can come up with is ... chemical substance was used in the attempted abductions and perhaps the cross was taken from the perp at that time. The chemical substance attempted abductions have been loosely connected with Jessica, so perhaps there was evidence of that same chemical substance on her face, her backpack, or perhaps clothing in the backpack (if her clothing were in the backpack - don't know that for sure). I wonder if the cross is from the attempted abductions in 2010, or if it is connected with the location where Jessica's remains were found.

The cross is distinctive enough that someone would have seen the perp wearing it. Could it have been found with her backpack as some sort of absurd symbol that the perp associates with his crimes?

Do we know anything about why the cross is associated with Jessica's murder?

In the last thread, someone got the exif data from the pictures. They were taken on 11/11/12, the day after her remains were found. That coupled with the statement from LE that it is related to Jessica's case makes me believe it was found the day her remains were found.

I think LE strongly suspect that the perp who attempted to assault / abduct the joggers is the same perp in Jessica's case. By releasing the pics of the cross coupled with the description of the perp from the two abduction attempts, they are hopping to jog memories of people who may know someone fitting the description who had that cross.