CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #17

[concentric]

what's with these girls not being reported missing for 8-9 hours?
Jessica and Autumn both. does the perp somehow know enough about them to know he's got at least 8 hours?

--------------

If you read the news articles, Jessica's mom worked the night shift and slept during the day. She had her cell phone in another room because she was getting a lot of calls from some marketer, and didn't want to be disturbed. Therefore, she didn't know that Jessica was missing from school for many hours.

Here's what I'm wondering:

Was there a person, perhaps totally unrelated to the family, who knew of times when Jessica would be on her own, isolated and vulnerable.

A couple of ideas I have, just for example:

1) Someone who communicated with her father while he was incarcerated.

2) Someone who communicated with her mother while she was at work.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Nothing about what happened to poor Jessica is funny, but the image of relatives coming to visit on holiday and mixing up chemicals in your kitchen made me lose my coffee. It's totally macabre, but it brings the meaning of "relatives from hell" to a whole new level! :what:

FWIW, I think he's local, too.

You know,the scary part is people like this do exist .

 

[enzeder]

Some more comments on the Westminster PD Facebook Page.

Westminster PD The only official source of accurate information is from Westminster PD. Some news agencies chose to use sources outside of the the PD to try to confirm information. We will comment on certain aspects of the investigation when we can. We will not say anything that we think will hinder the capture and prosecution of the person responsible for Jessica's death. And we will stress again that if we feel it is a public safety issue we will let you know. At this time we cannot comment on the tip or the evidence that led us to Pattridge Park again yesterday.
13 hours ago

Westminster PD Channing, Police must be very cautious before using a sketch as there are several considerations that must be made before law enforcement releases a sketch. At this time, we do not believe a sketch would aid in identifying the predator responsible for Jessica's abduction and murder.
10 minutes ago

Westminster PD Westminster PD appreciates our community and the public following information that is official and that which has been released by us. As the investigation and story grows, more and more inaccurate information will be shared. We will continue to be the only source of official information and caution when terms "someone close to the investigation" or similiar is used. Thank you
9 minutes ago
http://www.facebook.com/westminsterpolice/posts/10151362526459305

 

[palaminodee]

Anyone willing to post an example photo of what they think 'small rimmed sunglasses' look like?

The problem w/ the small rimmed glasses are:
were they round, square or rectangular etc...? Metal or plastic? Were they regular glasses or tinted/or sunglasses?

There are so many types of glasses, this could mislead people to be looking at the wrong person.

This happened in May, he could be wearing the same glasses, changed to a totally different style/color or changed to contacts by now.

Who knows?
I think the bigger clue is the guy's size, 5'-6 to 5'-8 is only an inch taller than me...for a man, he would appear short to me personally.

Wish there was more info regarding his walk, demeanor etc..

The clothing, hair and glasses can be so easily changed is the problem I see with the description. Also brown hair and BB cap, is too big of a category as well.

This guy does not sound like to jogger with the green tennis shoes trying to get the young boy. The shaved head jogger was said to be taller and fit.
If it was this guy, I think he would have had less of a problem kidnapping this woman.

of course, just my opinion

 

[Ms Suzanne]

what's with these girls not being reported missing for 8-9 hours?
Jessica and Autumn both. does the perp somehow know enough about them to know he's got at least 8 hours?

Maybe with both of these abductions they happened in a park near a lake(water) and there was no tub.

 

[Etilema]

Maybe he was just taking advantage of a 3-day weekend to do his dirty deeds. Or maybe his wife was going out of town over the 3-day weekend.

I know Halloween isn't a three-day weekend, but I can't help but worry that he might be out on that day, when (1) kids are out and about in the dark and with costumes that makes it hard for them to be aware of their surroundings, and (2) he could hide himself in a costume and his scariness could be considered part of the Halloween festivities.

(One Halloween, while it was still light out, our 13-year-old son was walking through our neighborhood (not in costume, just walking home) and a man or older teenager in a costume was in a yard scaring the trick-or-treaters. He came up to our son and grabbed him around the neck! At first our son thought it was just some kind of joking around, but the guy didn't let go right away. When our son got home and told us, we called the police. We said we believe the guy was just trying to be scary/funny in the spirit of the holiday, but that he was going too far by putting hands on people.)

 

[GrainneDhu]

I'd like to get some thoughts on this:

If the perp is a local, which it seems likely he is, and is still currently residing in or around the Westminster/Arvada area and HAS NOT fled town or left Colorado or even the US.... what does this mean? Does he want to be caught? Is that part of the plan, does he want the glory of a public arrest with cameras and a public arraignment and trial? Is he playing games and taunting LE, wanting to be close to everything, involving himself in the investigation and searches? Is this all thrilling? Is he arrogant/stupid enough to think they're not going to find him? Is he just going to stay in the area and blend in and act "normal" (as normal as a sicko like him can be) and whenever he does get caught, deny deny deny in the face of DNA evidence?

To me the two options are clear: he's either no longer in the area or he's still there (nothing gets past me). If he's fled, he probably doesn't want to get caught, wants to re-offend without LE being so quick to respond and connect him, etc. If he's still there, there are so many questions as to why he's still there. Thoughts?

I think he's a local, since many aspects of this crime seem to show local knowledge.

I think he's probably still in the area for one simple reason: he can't afford to move.

But how's this for covering all the bases? If he moved, I think that may have been the trigger. He knew he was moving, so he let his fantasy off its leash.

I think he is in the area or was as of Saturday 6 October. I'm leaning towards planting the backpack as a panic move, feeling nervous because LE was getting too close in some way.

The reason I think the backpack was a panic move rather than a taunt is because he didn't try to display Jessica's remains. They were apparently found in a black plastic garbage bag and I believe he hoped the trash collectors would just pick it up and throw it on the truck without any further investigation.

I could easily be wrong about all of the above.

 

[Etilema]

I think he's a local, since many aspects of this crime seem to show local knowledge.

I think he's probably still in the area for one simple reason: he can't afford to move.

But how's this for covering all the bases? If he moved, I think that may have been the trigger. He knew he was moving, so he let his fantasy off its leash.

I think he is in the area or was as of Saturday 6 October. I'm leaning towards planting the backpack as a panic move, feeling nervous because LE was getting too close in some way.

The reason I think the backpack was a panic move rather than a taunt is because he didn't try to display Jessica's remains. They were apparently found in a black plastic garbage bag and I believe he hoped the trash collectors would just pick it up and throw it on the truck without any further investigation.

I could easily be wrong about all of the above.

I tend to agree with you about the panic stuff, rather than staging.

I don't think he was about to move away, only because the other attack was back in May.

JMO

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I'm am starting to feel she was killed outside in a park somewhere.I am very interested about finding out about the possible blond tuft of hair they found.Has anyone heard anything more on this?Where is the park this was found in?Arvada?

 

[K.jill]

Has a description of the attempted abductor of the lady outside the bar been released? She may not have seen the man who came up behind her but maybe she got a good look at the driver who asked directions.

 

[Etilema]

what's with these girls not being reported missing for 8-9 hours?
Jessica and Autumn both. does the perp somehow know enough about them to know he's got at least 8 hours?

Because it was quite a few hours until they were known to be missing (in Jessica's case because her mom didn't get the message from school until 4pm). Then there were the preliminary searches by the family, and then by police checking things out before an Amber alert is issued.

 

[krkrjx]

Thanks everyone for the news articles/videos.

IMO - It seems certain to me that LE got a plate #, vehicle description on the survelliance camera re: the woman attacked in the parking lot (she pummeled one of them to the ground, and literally leaped over that metal guardrail. I just want to say that she is awesome.)

Like many of you have said, perhaps this is a two-man operation, sometimes working in close proximity with one another, sometimes working together, but at more distant points.

I just viewed the video from the attempt at the bar again several times. I do not believe it was just two people in that car. Last night posters said they saw the rear door of the car open, but I did not see that at all. However, today upon reviewing the vid, I do see it very clearly. That is definitely a 4-door sedan and I can clearly see the back passenger-side door open and then close quickly as soon as the "grabber" hits the pavement. So, there were at least 3 people in that white car, IMO.

I do not see the bar parking lot attempt as related to Jessica's abduction or the attempt on the jogger. Nothing points to it other than the rag over the face, but that is something many might use to subdue someone.

I see no connection, but I prefer to keep an open mind and not rule anything out completely until LE announces they have ruled it out.

 

[GrainneDhu]

The site says:



Regular backpacks have that chest strap, too, but almost no one uses them for normal wear (as opposed to hiking), because of the inconvenience of taking it off and on.

It makes me a bit nervous to put something on that I could not easily slip out of if grabbed. Too easy for an attacker to grab me from behind by the backpack and control my movements while safely out of range of my hands and making it easier to avoid my feet.

Then once he has me under control, a couple cuts with a box cutter and the backpack is gone.

I'd also be a bit nervous about putting such a backpack on a child that would be getting into and out of vehicles. Too easy to get caught up on something and then a second of inattention turns it into a tragedy.

I may well be wrong, I'm no safety expert.

 

[Elley Mae]

I'd like to get some thoughts on this:

If the perp is a local, which it seems likely he is, and is still currently residing in or around the Westminster/Arvada area and HAS NOT fled town or left Colorado or even the US.... what does this mean? Does he want to be caught? Is that part of the plan, does he want the glory of a public arrest with cameras and a public arraignment and trial? Is he playing games and taunting LE, wanting to be close to everything, involving himself in the investigation and searches? Is this all thrilling? Is he arrogant/stupid enough to think they're not going to find him? Is he just going to stay in the area and blend in and act "normal" (as normal as a sicko like him can be) and whenever he does get caught, deny deny deny in the face of DNA evidence?

To me the two options are clear: he's either no longer in the area or he's still there (nothing gets past me). If he's fled, he probably doesn't want to get caught, wants to re-offend without LE being so quick to respond and connect him, etc. If he's still there, there are so many questions as to why he's still there. Thoughts?

bbm

maybe, maybe, probably. These three things made me think about the case of Elizabeth Ann Metzler from Md. She was kidnapped from bus stop and found murdered. The killer placed her "things" all around the area (I lived there) as if he was taunting LE, (my dad was one) It was said after he confessed that he was involved in the searches. This was back in the early 70's it was a few years later he was in prison for a sex offense and one of the main detectives was at the prison and Chaney ( the killer ) told the detective he had something to tell him. What he told him was that he killed Elizabeth and the detective asked him to describe her underpants and he did. It was something that they never told the public. It was scary times, her body was found about a mile from where I lived.

 

[otto]

I'm am starting to feel she was killed outside in a park somewhere.I am very interested about finding out about the possible blond tuft of hair they found.Has anyone heard anything more on this?Where is the park this was found in?Arvada?

"Materasso also told 7NEWS that a material found during the investigation, previously called in as a clump of hair, is being tested. It may be a synthetic material.

"They’re going to collect it as though it has potential evidentiary value," Materasso said.

Additionally, he said that investigators did investigate receipts but said is is some confusion and misunderstanding about how they came into play.

"There is no connection between the receipts and the trash bag surrounding the recovery of Jessica’s body near Pattridge Park Open Space," Materasso said."

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/natio...-connected-to-attack-on-jogger-at-ketner-lake

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Can someone please help me find this.I think I remember a fire not far from where little Jessica was found and it happened after she was found.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I have done as much as I can to educate my kids about stranger abductions and how to remaine safe, but after seeing the video of the attempted abduction of the woman and the Hidden camera one with the little girl, I am actually more nervous than ever.

If you missed it from the last thread:

STRANGER DANGER - CHILD ABDUCTIONS : Would Anyone Help Your Child When Being Abducted? - YouTube

It made me cry. Please watch it. What do you think a small, weak or elderly person could do to intervene? I've read enough accounts here to see that just getting a description, picture or license number may help to track someone down, but it would likely be too late for the person being abducted to be saved. It is awful.

I wish they had been able to find a better actor for the part of the child. Her cries did not raise my inner alarm because they sounded so stage-y and lacking in true terror.

She sounded like a child having a temper tantrum to me.

I'm sure it's really difficult to find realistic acting in a role that requires a very young child, though.

 

[msthinksalot]

--------------
1) Someone who communicated with her father while he was incarcerated.

Snipped by me...

I got way behind in the threads and have been reading through the backlog, but that seems to be mostly about the cross. I do not recall ever seeing anything about this... is there a link?

 

[concentric]

I think he's a local, since many aspects of this crime seem to show local knowledge.

I think he's probably still in the area for one simple reason: he can't afford to move.

But how's this for covering all the bases? If he moved, I think that may have been the trigger. He knew he was moving, so he let his fantasy off its leash.

I think he is in the area or was as of Saturday 6 October. I'm leaning towards planting the backpack as a panic move, feeling nervous because LE was getting too close in some way.

The reason I think the backpack was a panic move rather than a taunt is because he didn't try to display Jessica's remains. They were apparently found in a black plastic garbage bag and I believe he hoped the trash collectors would just pick it up and throw it on the truck without any further investigation.

I could easily be wrong about all of the above.

--------------

Great thoughts.

I agree. It probably was thought of as tossed out garbage, out of sight, out of mind.

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

OK I skimmed and didn't see this yet, I finally have a link for you all to see the victim interview from the attempted abduction in Aurora. I was looking all night last night and it's finally up!

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/10/23/womans-message-to-attackers-you-picked-the-wrong-woman/