CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #17

[NC Analyzer]

Ok, I'm thinking that at this point either
A- absolutely no explanation is going to help.
or
B - someone is just choosing to be obstinate to stir up the board.
Either way, I am going to bed.
Nite all.

:takeoff:

Gotta agree with this one, too! Have a good night everyone :seeya:

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

My 5 year old just woke up so I'm outtie. Boy do I regret logging on this morning. (I'm 6-9 hours ahead of most of you.)

 

[Confusion]

Facts We Know – I think

Jessica met J and walked to school with him on Thursday, she stopped outside the school to talk to a teacher-aid when they got there.

On Friday morning, Jessica called J's house to see if he was walking (because of the lousy weather).

She left to meet J to walk with him to school about 8:30.

J never saw her that day, got a ride from his dad when she didn't show up, and got that morning and Thursday morning mixed up when talking to the police.

Jessica was not seen at school that day, and there have been no confirmed witnesses who saw her on the way.

Her backpack was placed on the sidewalk (or grass by the sidewalk?) in front of a home in Superior sometime between 6:45 pm Saturday and 1:00 am Sunday.

There was evidence that PROBABLY has DNA on it in or on the backpack because DNA was used to rule out suspects before her body was found.

The family is NOT believed to be involved in her abduction or murder.

At least part of her body was found at Pattridge Park on Wednesday, in or on one or more black trash bags.

A small wooden cross with unidentified markings on it was found at one of the crime scenes, most likely near where her remains were found.

Her body was not intact when it was found. Parts may, or may not, have been missing, but they had to use DNA to positively identify her.

Two receipts were found

Her abduction is related to at least one previously attempted abduction.


Reported by MSM, But Not Confirmed By LE

Her clothes were found in her backpack neatly folded.

Her body was dismembered

Her socks were missing

A bunch of other stuff I can't remember because I try to stick with confirmed facts.

 

[cluciano63]

No I'll drop it....i"m just saying there is no way to "prove" that someone didn't see what they said they saw. Unless that area was under video surveillance.

I am thinking that perhaps it was determined that Jessica was wearing the clothes one of those initial witnesses described the previous day, not the day she vanished, something like that. Or that the child claimed to have seen her with someone who was not actually present that day. So there are ways to disprove such a "sighting".

 

[scadder21]

Facts We Know – I think

Jessica met J and walked to school with him on Thursday, she stopped outside the school to talk to a teacher-aid when they got there.

On Friday morning, Jessica called J's house to see if he was walking (because of the lousy weather).

She left to meet J to walk with him to school about 8:30.

J never saw her that day, got a ride from his dad when she didn't show up, and got that morning and Thursday morning mixed up when talking to the police.

Jessica was not seen at school that day, and there have been no confirmed witnesses who saw her on the way.

Her backpack was placed on the sidewalk (or grass by the sidewalk?) in front of a home in Superior sometime between 6:45 pm Saturday and 1:00 am Sunday.

There was evidence that PROBABLY has DNA on it in or on the backpack because DNA was used to rule out suspects before her body was found.

The family is NOT believed to be involved in her abduction or murder.

At least part of her body was found at Pattridge Park on Wednesday, in or on one or more black trash bags.

A small wooden cross with unidentified markings on it was found at one of the crime scenes, most likely near where her remains were found.

Her body was not intact when it was found. Parts may, or may not, have been missing, but They had to use DNA to positively identify her.

Two receipts were found

Her abduction is related to at least one previously attempted abduction.


Reported by MSM, But Not Confirmed By LE

Her clothes were found in her backpack neatly folded.

Her body was dismembered

Her socks were missing

A bunch of other stuff I can't remember because I try to stick with confirmed facts.

Thanks......

 

[momrids6]

People looking for organ donars? I don't really know how they look for compatibility for them.


I heard about him! One guy told his wife that the Schwann's guy had told him that he had slept with all but one of the women on that street. For some reason he wasn't too happy when his wife responded with, "Oh really? It must be that momrids6 down the street." :laugh:
If anyone is interested in the video of the car used in the abduction of the 6 year-old in June, I can't post the link because it's on Youtube. If you just do a search on there for child abduction vehicle - June 19, 2012 you should find it.

:floorlaugh: I just live in a small rural community- and read Topix! :floorlaugh:

 

[scadder21]

I am thinking that perhaps it was determined that Jessica was wearing the clothes one of those initial witnesses described the previous day, not the day she vanished, something like that. Or that the child claimed to have seen her with someone who was not actually present that day. So there are ways to disprove such a "sighting".

That makes sense, so essentially 2 of the witnesses probably had their days confused about when she was seen at school.

 

[cluciano63]

That makes sense, so essentially 2 of the witnesses probably had their days confused about when she was seen at school.

That is my guess. Weird, but it happens all the time.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Below is a documented and sourced by me timeline of sorts of all the attempted abductions within the last 18 months in this particular area of Colorado.
**added couple more attempted abductions to the timeline*

October 23, 2012-
Arvada- A young girl was approached while on her way to school by a male in a red sedan telling her to get in the car.
http://www.9news.com/news/local/article/295794/346/Brighton-Police-investigate-attempted-abduction

October 22, 2012-
Arvada- An 8yo girl attempted abduction at school bus stop.
http://www.9news.com/news/local/article/295794/346/Brighton-Police-investigate-attempted-abduction

October 19, 2012-
Colorado Springs- Police said the child was walking in the parking lot of The Classical Academy school at 975 Stout Road when a man in a truck asked him to help find a lost puppy.

The boy said the middle-aged man was sitting in a brown, rusty, full-sized truck, possibly a Ford. The man never exited the truck or approached the child. The incident happened around 12:45 p.m.
http://www.krdo.com/news/Police-sea...boy/-/417220/17063008/-/15tc41bz/-/index.html

October 17 2012-
LITTLETON, Colo.—A 14-year-old boy walking home from a friend's house has told authorities a man tried to pull him toward a car before he could run away.
http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_21796731

October 16 2012-
Aurora- A woman is approached in a bar parking lot and a perp attempted to place a chemical soaked rag over her mouth.she was able to escape and full attempt caught on video.(2 perps)
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...kidnapping-outside-bar-investigated-in-aurora

October 5 2012-
Westminster- Jessica Ridgeway abducted on her way to school.

September 14 2012-
Colorado Springs- The first happened in the 7700 block of Fountain Mesa Road when a child was walking home from school, according to police. The child told police a black man in a grey pick up truck stopped and told the child to get into the truck. The child ran away.
http://www.krdo.com/news/Fountain-P...ction/-/417220/16607542/-/rfg2p5/-/index.html

September 14 2012-
Colorado Springs- The second incident happened near Fountain Middle School as a child was walking home from school. Police say, in this case, the child reported being followed by an older white pick up truck. When the child got out a cell phone to make a call the truck drove away.
http://www.krdo.com/news/Fountain-P...ction/-/417220/16607542/-/rfg2p5/-/index.html

September 12 2012-
Arvada- An elementary school student reported someone attempting to entice him into a car with candy around 5:40 p.m. on Wednesday, in front of Fitzmorris Elementary School at 62nd Avenue and Independence Street.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ce-warning-about-two-cases-of-stranger-danger

September 10 2012-
El Paso county- A 12-year-old boy managed to escape a possible kidnapper early Monday morning.

According to Lt. Jeff Kramer with the El Paso County Sheriff's Office, the boy was on Cabellero Avenue near Grand Peak in Security-Widefield around 6:40 a.m. when an man approached him and tried to make the boy get in his car.

The boy was able to get away, and was unharmed in the attempted abduction. Kramer says that the boy didn't see a gun, but that the suspect implied that he had one. The Sheriff's Office is treating the case as though the suspect did have a gun.
http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/...-Security-Widefield-169185296.html?mobile=yes

September 9 2012-
Arvada- According to Arvada police, around 5:30 p.m. on Sunday, a child was walking near Quaker Acres Park, near 74th Place and Terry Court, when someone tried to entice the child into a car with candy.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ce-warning-about-two-cases-of-stranger-danger

June 19 2012-
El Paso county- An 8-year-old girl was grabbed Tuesday afternoon on a Stratmoor Valley street by a man who drove off with her but dropped her off on Loomis Avenue about 15 minutes later, the El Paso County Sheriff's Office said.
http://www.gazette.com/articles/kidnapping-140527-around-victim.html

May 28 2012-
Westminster- A 22yo jogger is grabbed from behind and chemical soaked rag attempted to be placed over her mouth. She was able to fight him off and call 911
**this is the case definitively linked to Jessica Ridgeway case per WPD**
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...geway-slaying-and-earlier-ketner-lake-attacks

May 10 2012-
Westminster- Three weeks before a man attacked a woman near Ketner Lake, someone with a similar description choked an 8-year-old boy in a possible kidnapping attempt.
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21817974/jogger-choked-8-year-old-boy-near-ketner

January 20 2012-
Colorado City- ACTUAL ABDUCTION
9yo girl abducted but able to escape when car broke down. Suffered injuries but alive. Garcia arrested for abduction.
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_19782469

October 5 2011-
Aurora- A 13yo girl on her way to school in Aurora, Co was approached and perp attempted to get her into his car.sketch also at link..
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/attempted-child-abduction-investigated-in-aurora

August 12 2011-
Pueblo- Police say the woman didn't notice the man in her mini-van when she pulled out of the parking lot. She heard a noise inside, turned around and saw the man climbing over the seats coming toward her. The 24 year old jumped out of the van while it was in gear. The van, with the man inside, crashed into a tree at 1st and Union.
http://www.koaa.com/news/pueblo-woman-jumps-from-a-moving-van-to-avoid-being-abducted/

July 5 2011-
Colorado Springs- It happened in the carmel middle school area, that's near Fountain Blvd. and Chelton Rd.

Police say he pulled up to the 9yo girl who was waiting for an ice cream truck and asked her if she wanted him to expose himself.

When the girl said no, the man offered her a dollar.
http://www.koaa.com/news/police-searching-for-man-who-tried-to-expose-himself-to-a-young-girl/

 

[Confusion]

Below is a documented and sourced by me timeline of sorts of all the attempted abductions within the last 18 months in this particular area of Colorado.
**added couple more attempted abductions to the timeline*

That's nuts!

 

[kkdj]

I keep thinking about the California EAR/ONS case. This guy terrorized California during the 1970s to early 1980s. He started out with prowling and rape in the Sacramento area (50+ incidents), then moved on to Orange County where he murdered 12 people (men and women). It took a number of years to connect the rapes with the murders.

Guess what? LE is in possession of his DNA but it has never shown up in any database. Now THAT'S scary.

California requires DNA for felony arrests now due to this perp, who made Zodiac look like an amateur in comparison.

I lived in orange county during those murders. It was very very scary. I kept a "screamer" with me at all times. It was a small handheld gadget whereupon if I
Pushed a button with my thumb it would screech very loud. Sure made me feel safer.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Obviously an abusive man.
Control
Does well at work
Gets along with others well, as in outward appearance.
Cunning, manipulative.
Maybe a DV past?
Not everyone who commits crimes gets swabbed.

I respectfully disagree with your second and third comment.
2. Does well at work.
IMO not necessarily. Remember Otis Toole? He rarely worked, was of lower than average intelligence and a loner. John Wayne Gacy, a loner initially, who did not like working with people.

3. Gets along well with others.
I immediately thought about Charles Manson, who reportedly was not friendly with anyone but loners he could control. David Berkowitz, didn't get along with people....standoffish. All my thoughts
only.

 

[scorekeeper]

Investigators asked for DNA from the following groups:


•People who members of the public said should be considered suspects in Ridgeway's killing.
•People identified through information gathered when police canvassed neighborhoods near her house and where her backpack was discovered.
•People whose cellphones were used in areas near the crime scene.
•People who matched the description of a man who tried to grab a woman as she was running around Ketner Lake in Westminster.

http://www.9news.com/news/local/article/295798/346/Investigators-gather-500-DNA-samples

I think this article tells us the individuals that LE is now concentrating their investigation on; along with other tips and evidence they have received since Jessica was abducted.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Smooth, thank for compiling the list. That IMO is mind blowing.
Can that possibly be pinned at the beginning of the threads....it's a great reference piece!

 

[Yellow]

Interesting, but due to the confusion about where the meeting spot was, this could explain why. I know what you're saying, just trying this one on from different angles. Maybe she didn't walk to his house because she thought they were meeting at the park. That's how I thought it originally went down...they were meeting at the park and then reports of her going to the friends house came out, but maybe SHE thought they were meeting at the park and the friend and his dad thought she was coming to the house...if she was at the park and they didn't show up did she continue on to school so she wouldn't be late? The open space leaves a lot of area for an abduction.
And like I said, I'm not disagreeing with anyone, this is just a rumor and I'm trying to consider the possibilities.

Yes you are right, that is the other scenario, JR left 8:30 to go to park, where's a friend thought it was at house, which explains why there was a mixup. This has been rehashed a lot but it does not seem to make sense, distance wise, for JR to go to the house, but whatever. In any event she missed the boy and went to school on her own,

She might have been excited/panicked when boy did not show up. She was probably looking for him, standing there looking, that could have been when perp got her,

I wonder why dogs could not track her route. Those dogs can do amazing work, I saw a show on ID discovery where the dogs tracked the LE miles to the body.

Why can't the dogs track where she walked to? Was it because after 8 hours her scent was gone? Or maybe polluted by other people walking? Or do u think LE might know exact spot of abduction based on dogs? Might the speculation of the open space be based on the dogs?

It would seem to me that the dogs should have been able to track the route to where she was taken, ending all this speculation about where exactly the abduction took place

 

[OwlMom]

What we know is that the woman in the park was attacked by a man that stalked the jogging trail, attacked her from behind with a chemically soaked cloth, and ran away when she was getting the upper hand in the attempted abduction. He is short, wears a baseball capt. to look younger, has brown hair and sometimes wears wire-frame type glasses ... that brown hair thing, short, medium build, jeans, wooden cross on a necklace ,,, does that work.

BBM. Why do you say he wears a cap to look younger?

The Westy PD press release says this:

18 – 30’s (or someone whose appearance with a ball cap may look that age)

 

[SapphireSteel]

Yes you are right, that is the other scenario, JR left 8:30 to go to park, where's a friend thought it was at house, which explains why there was a mixup. This has been rehashed a lot but it does not seem to make sense, distance wise, for JR to go to the house, but whatever. In any event she missed the boy and went to school on her own,

She might have been excited/panicked when boy did not show up. She was probably looking for him, standing there looking, that could have been when perp got her,

I wonder why dogs could not track her route. Those dogs can do amazing work, I saw a show on ID discovery where the dogs tracked the LE miles to the body.

Why can't the dogs track where she walked to? Was it because after 8 hours her scent was gone? Or maybe polluted by other people walking? Or do u think LE might know exact spot of abduction based on dogs? Might the speculation of the open space be based on the dogs?

It would seem to me that the dogs should have been able to track the route to where she was taken, ending all this speculation about where exactly the abduction took place

Do we know they definitely didn't?

Has LE come out and said "no scent" or "we don't know where she was abducted"?

They should have been able to track her from her door to exactly where she entered a vehicle, then the scent fades.

I wonder if they did and we just haven't been told?

:waitasec:

 

[stealth]

I've been away for a bit and trying to catch up, but I may be 4 or 5 full threads behind. Since we are supposed to be sleuthing, it seems to me that the biggest question we can focus on right now is what LE has asked for regarding the distinct markings on the cross that they released earlier in the week. I've seen some really good summaries of what we know and don't know in the last few pages as well as some educated speculation. I'd appreciate though if someone could just post a quick summary on the theories regarding the markings on the cross. Thanks

 

[Yellow]

Do we know they definitely didn't?

Has LE come out and said "no scent" or "we don't know where she was abducted"?

They should have been able to track her from her door to exactly where she entered a vehicle, then the scent fades.

I wonder if they did and we just haven't been told?

:waitasec:

I don't think LE has given out where she was abducted. For the past 3 weeks, we at WS have been discussing this a lot so there is no clear answer on WHERE she was taken from

But you are right, LE should know exactly where she was abducted if the dogs worked and for some reason they are not releasing that. either that or the dogs did not work and I don't think they released anything on whether or not there was a scent.

 

[cluciano63]

I've been away for a bit and trying to catch up, but I may be 4 or 5 full threads behind. Since we are supposed to be sleuthing, it seems to me that the biggest question we can focus on right now is what LE has asked for regarding the distinct markings on the cross that they released earlier in the week. I've seen some really good summaries of what we know and don't know in the last few pages as well as some educated speculation. I'd appreciate though if someone could just post a quick summary on the theories regarding the markings on the cross. Thanks

You name it, it has been discussed here. Everything from father/son/holy ghost, to number of victims, to random. No agreement or conclusion has been reached.