CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #20

[PlainJaneDoe]

I am NOT a pro or expert but a very close family member who I have helped support through a number of mental illnesses over a period of time has had some devastating experiences with SSRI's. The warnings on the SSRI's are standard -- in magazine ads and commercials for these drugs -- and the potential effects can be SCARY. My family member was put on a starter dose with her psychiatrist, we went back for her follow up a few weeks later and the pdoc did a quick evaluation and upped the dose, in response to my family member reporting no change in mood. I think the dose was doubled. Came back a few weeks later, no real change, so upped the dose again. Well she ended up MANIC as all heck. Typical manic symptoms, in a VERY short time frame, clearly med induced. Ended up hospitalized. I was freaked out for her and for my safety. The doctors in the hospital were horrified that a licensed psychiatrist would actually have someone go from 0 to xx whatever the dose was in that amount of time. It was reckless and rushed and there was no way her body could handle it. We ended up taking action which is another story but the SSRI danger can be REAL and the fact that psych pros can do that makes you wonder. In the years since that happened, we've talked to dozens of mental health professionals and they're all in complete shock that this pdoc did what she did. She did end up terminated at the practice she was at. And in teens, especially, that all has to be monitored thoroughly.

I am very, very sorry for your experience. As you know from all the pros you've talked to, the individual who did this was irresponsible and wrong.

I did not realize it at the time - I thought it was normal! - but I was very fortunate to have a PDoc who listened to me and treated me more like a colleague than a patient. He knew that I needed his medical expertise, but that he needed something from me, too - the "data"! The first visit, he explained to me that I was never to assume that he was right and I was wrong about any medication. It was like an experiment we would run together, and if something made me feel worse or didn't help, I needed to tell him honestly and not assume "doctor knows best." and that's what we have done, since I was 17. It has been trial and error. He would tell me the side effects, explain what he believed the benefits were for me in particular, and ask me, "What are your thoughts?"

I wish every person could share this experience when it comes to mental health.

 

[writer7]

I believe that some of your statements, especially regarding SSRIs, aren't quite right. Just from the perspective of someone who has studied these things as well as experienced them personally.

What IS super-dangerous is for medicines to be abused or carelessly used. This is not limited to SSRIs by any means.

Well, they are drugs that do influence brain function more than, say, an aspirin, so it's to be expected that the side effects could be bad. I swear by SSRIs. I am very clinically depressed without mine, and ***poof*** not depressed when I take it regularly. I consider it just like my migraine prevention meds.

But my first experience being put on them was very, very bad. The psychiatrist was just an a$$ who was thinking more about his golf game, quite frankly. It was a tricyclic antidepressant, so old-school and much less safe, as you obviously would know. It was a stupid, bad move of that practice to take my complaints lightly, and I don't know why they didn't try Prozac first anyway, considering the safety profiles. I was still a teenager, too.

So I both swear by anti-depressants and treat them with a sort-of-frightened respect. They are serious drugs, and finding the right one often involves more side effects than folks are used to. I still think the risk-benefit analysis works out well as long as doctors take them very seriously, too. Many really don't, unfortunately.

 

[MidwestMama]

This is why it's so important to teach our children to always follow their gut! Instincts are wonderful as long as you pay attention to them.

ITA. I have seen another poster mention the book THE GIFT OF FEAR. I read it a long time ago and second the recommendation. It is a very informative and easy to read book that discusses trusting your instincts and why. It gives real life senarios to help explain what he is trying to get across. It is written by Gavin DeGraw.

 

[raeann]

He seems so young to be in college already. Is 17 normal for a student to already have started a year at college in the US? TIA

Not too unusual. My just graduated son started taking college courses at 17 during his junior year of HS. He continued doing so through his senior year and basically started full time college with a full semester of credits already completed.

jmo

 

[LotusPawprint]

This is going to sound like I've lost my marbles (which is not unlikely being immersed in this sad story), but I've been jaded by too many criminal trials where the disgusting criminal and defense team manage to blame a totally innocent victim. I just had a mental montage of trials where some defense comes completely out of left field and subtly takes jabs at the victim. Obviously (??) that won't happen here, but I already feel like if this goes to trial it's going to be all abous AS. His rights, his mind, poor him, why he should be excused, he didn't have a target, he was just a lost soul, blah blah. It happens all the time. The victims get lost. I know Jessica won't get lost here. Her community will hold up her family. But the trial will be his. He'll be getting his stage. That makes me just as sick.

 

[MidwestMama]

It is also common for bright Colorado high school kids to take a college course or two during their senior year.

I agree. It is the same in the area where I live, two of my three children got some of their college classes out of the way during their senior year of high school. But from what I understand he actually dropped out of high school and got a GED. Is that incorrect?

 

[otto]

This is why it's so important to teach our children to always follow their gut! Instincts are wonderful as long as you pay attention to them.

I doubt that Jessica had a chance. I believe him if he says that he drove past her, turned around and came up behind her. He has a known history of attempting an abduction using a toxic substance. I don't think she had a chance ... probably didn't see it coming, and was too small to fight him. The 22 year old in the park was luckier.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

"We're charging you under the open container law."
"But, officer, I was using it to melt my tires out!"

sorry... O/T...

My hubby was camping in freezing weather with Boy Scouts...

One of his tent mates pee-peed out the tent, not wanting to go outside in the cold.

seems he pee-peed right into his own shoes...and it was frozen over night!

and he didn't have an extra pair!

:cold:

 

[Foxfire]

Since he's not eligible for the death penalty, why would LWOP be a plea deal for him?

LOve this!!!! EXCELLENT ADVICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, to play devil's advocate, there are lots of cases of false confessions.



Yes, but all that means is that a law which calls for a mandatory life sentence, giving the judge no leeway with regards to sentencing, is unconstitutional. It does NOT mean that LWOP for a minor is unconstitutional.

I think that's exactly what this evil kid is going to get. The DA would never agree to less in such a horrific case. And I'm pretty sure the jerk is going to fight and claim he's ill, etc.

RE: Since he's not eligible for the death penalty, why would LWOP be a plea deal for him?

gitana1, sorry, when I made the above comment, I wasn't aware of the Supreme Court ruling last year abolishing the death penalty for juveniles. In recent prosecution of serial killer cases, LWOP was negotiated due to budgetary issues, automatic appeals(families having to relive the tragedies for decades), commuted sentences, and UN resolution to abolish the death penalty, etc. FL has inmates on death row that have been awaiting the death penalty for over 33 decades..

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_moratorium_on_the_death_penalty[/ame]

United Nations calls on States that maintain the death penalty to establish a moratorium on the use of the death penalty with a view to abolition, and in the meantime, to restrict ...

RE: Well, to play devil's advocate, there are lots of cases of false confessions.

To my knowledge, not with body parts in their crawl space, knowledge of hold back info, and indicting dna & other forensics evidence tied to them, etc.

 

[otto]

I agree. It is the same in the area where I live, two of my three children got some of their college classes out of the way during their senior year of high school. But from what I understand he actually dropped out of high school and got a GED. Is that incorrect?

I think you have it right. That's what I thought I heard as well.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I'm on SSRI's, have been for years, they have saved my life and sanity.

While we are playing the game blame, I'm surprised no one has brought up the one thing that seems to be a replaying theme in the most horrific crimes - religion.

It seems to be a recurring theme in the most horrific. Why?

In this case, I wonder if a pastor has been involved with this boy and his aberrant behaviour, alleged addiction, counselling etc.


:dunno:

 

[izzyblizzy]

I agree. It is the same in the area where I live, two of my three children got some of their college classes out of the way during their senior year of high school. But from what I understand he actually dropped out of high school and got a GED. Is that incorrect?

I believe that is correct from every news source I have seen/heard. That doesn't mean he wasn't bright, etc. I take it as he wanted to skip the rest of HS, get a GED and get on with his college education.

(sometimes GED's are associated with teen moms, people who drop out because of drugs, etc., but I think in this case he just wanted to get out of HS and move on).

 

[Wondergirl]

on NG-classmate just said AS wore that cross around his neck everyday.

Thank-you.

So, how many of his classmates called the tip line? I like to think someone did.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Well, they are drugs that do influence brain function more than, say, an aspirin, so it's to be expected that the side effects could be bad. I swear by SSRIs. I am very clinically depressed without mine, and ***poof*** not depressed when I take it regularly. I consider it just like my migraine prevention meds.

But my first experience being put on them was very, very bad. The psychiatrist was just an a$$ who was thinking more about his golf game, quite frankly. It was a tricyclic antidepressant, so old-school and much less safe, as you obviously would know. It was a stupid, bad move of that practice to take my complaints lightly, and I don't know why they didn't try Prozac first anyway, considering the safety profiles. I was still a teenager, too.

So I both swear by anti-depressants and treat them with a sort-of-frightened respect. They are serious drugs, and finding the right one often involves more side effects than folks are used to. I still think the risk-benefit analysis works out well as long as doctors take them very seriously, too. Many really don't, unfortunately.

BBM, I think you've hit the nail on the head. You (doctor) have to work with your patient to find what works for that individual. And it can change over time. It involves a cooperative relationship where the pt is self-aware and willing to be honest with the doctor, and the doctor uses that info in prescribing. It is hard work but I think it is ideal.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

:iamashamed:

I stated that that I have no real experience and it's just what I've heard. I thought I made that clear.

I'm sorry - I should not have snapped like that.

 

[TxLady2]

You may have something there.

Another thing to share. A lot of people actually WANT to go to jail. It is an easier life. Cot and 3 squares.

A few have told me, when out on a program, they wanted to go back b/c in jail they knew what was what and who was who.

In other words, once everyone got a place in jail, they had it. You knew who was a rat, who was a person to trust, what emotions would go down.

How would this kid know what jail was like? I'm sure that there are many homeless or repeat criminals who would prefer to be in jail, but this boy had a comfortable home, why would he prefer to go to jail? Unless he just wanted to be notorious, which is possible.
I can't imagine wanting to be in jail. But county jail is a picnic compared to what actual prison is like. He will be in general pop. so he is going to be a target for all the tough guys in there, and will end up gang-raped and maybe eventually, some dude's "wife" if he's lucky.

 

[MidwestMama]

I believe that is correct from every news source I have seen/heard. That doesn't mean he wasn't bright, etc. I take it as he wanted to skip the rest of HS, get a GED and get on with his college education.

(sometimes GED's are associated with teen moms, people who drop out because of drugs, etc., but I think in this case he just wanted to get out of HS and move on).

oh, I totally agree! That is why I stated in the original post that I think it is unfair that some employers view those who get GEDs as "quitters". There are lots of reasons other than "just quitting" that people get a GED. Medical issues, relocation, etc. By no means do I feel that one who gets a GED is not bright. It seems clear that AS was bright academically.

 

[izzyblizzy]

Thank-you.

So, how many of his classmates called the tip line? I like to think someone did.

I think this is a case of "I knew it, he was soooo creepy" .. but doubt anyone called the tip line. I haven't heard one person actually say they called the tipline, but just that in 20/20 hindsight he was creepy, or their child said he was creepy, etc. etc.

 

[Camdenres]

Research seems to indicate, however, that even someone with all the genetic dice stacked against them is not doomed to a life of crime.
Pensfan posted this link in the last thread:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127888976

This is an NPR story about a neuroscientist who discovered that his brain scan is the same as those of the psychopaths he studies and that he has a gene variant known to be correlated with high aggression.

And yet he's a Ph.D researcher with a long, stable marriage, children, etc.

Why did he not turn out like his distant relative Lizzie Borden? He is convinced it is because he had a good childhood.



It seems to take 3 factors to turn a child into a psychopath: genes, brain abnormality and childhood violence. It's difficult to change your genes or the architecture of your brain but that still leaves childhood, which is under human control.

The NPR segment is well worth reading or listening to.

But...perhaps I read it wrong but the people that did not turn out to be psychopaths never commited a crime..their brains were just wired similarly. I have to to believe crossing the line to commiting a heinous act would somehow tip the scale past no return. I could have certainly read it wrong and I have NO type of experience in this but can society take that chance?

 

[AstroKitty]

I agree. It is the same in the area where I live, two of my three children got some of their college classes out of the way during their senior year of high school. But from what I understand he actually dropped out of high school and got a GED. Is that incorrect?

I'm sort of confused myself. But he dropped out, went to an alternative school (I'm thinking for his GED) and I *think* he's in a tech school now. But don't quote me on that. I read it really early on and so now when I see it in the articles I just gloss over it.
But he did not graduate high-school, he has just a GED. I think he had some trouble around the age of 15 and things took a different route. JMO based on various MSM random bits of information.