CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #22

[kkdj]

Wow. WOW. I am so very sorry for yourself & your daughter having gone through this. CO has an Address Confidentiality Program that is super helpful for stalking victims. My mom is under this program. Through it, your physical address is never public knowledge on an electric bill, phone bill, etc. It runs your bills through a PO Box & then sends to you.

Be careful & never let your guard down.

Thanks for this info. I think her restraining order was only for a different state and has now expired. Which was part of our wondering.
It's Interesting to me that her ex, whom we fear and wondered about, fits the same psychological mentality (jmo) of AS...... Before we knew about AS.
So I think these people are actually predictable. I never thought that before, but we were scared of a person that is alot like AS.

 

[KMouse]

Could AS have been watching on his cell phone?

Yes if he has a smartphone. You also don't need a data plan. My daughter's phone can access the internet if there is WiFi.

 

[Amster]

Oh I agree to a certain extent. Just....if a parent is paying for a ticket and providing transportation for a child to go to a concert where murder and mayhem is the central focus of every song, well...I think there's a problem. And if that child grows up to emulate those words in that music, what to do then? Anyway....just something I've been thinking and wondering about.

I think a lot of this starts with little things.....kid wants a FB acct. at 8, 9, 10 etc. No big deal....parents help set it up. Want to see a PG-13 movie at 7? No problem. Parents order it. Smoking weed is illegal ( except for medicinal) but parents smoke it, anyway. Alcohol? Parents provide that, also. Monitoring the internet?? Silly. If they can't view , gore, etc. at home, they will just go to a friends house. Lets the parent off the hook. Takes too much time to monitor and the kid might get mad....bad grades? Blame the teacher. Get arrested? Blame the cops. Etc. A lot, I believe a whole lot, of kids grow up thinking rules don't apply to them. Laws don't apply to them. I don't think AS had an abusive childhood. I think he had a childhood where anything goes. Jessica paid the ultimate price for it.

 

[kkdj]

Could AS have been watching on his cell phone?

I would sure think so!
Think about this. When we want to get something accomplished we figure out a way. Sex is a very powerful agenda. Some of us want it involving love. Others want it involving just sex. Then some want it to involve perversion. But no matter what our needs and desires, we are driven to fulfill them. It is human nature.
Jmo of course

 

[gitana1]

I forgot where I 'heard" the info but I think CO doesn't segregate the prisoners unless they do something that causes them to go in solitary or if they are on the DP, I believe no matter the crime you go in gen. pop...

I;m trying to find out the info. I'm not totally sure but I did find this:

CSP houses violent inmates and provides programs in behavior modification, anger management, victim awareness, and gang deprogramming. Its goal is to move prisoners to the “general population” in other facilities; it has the very low rate of 12% of inmates returning from other prisons because of the effectiveness of its programs.

http://www.eviehudak.com/node/34

More info at link.

There is also info at this link but I did not read all the way through to what happens with sex offenders: http://www.ccjrc.org/pdf/2011_Solitary_Confinement_Report.pdf

 

[Victoriouswon]

On count 13 it says he used a deadly weapon-the chemical mixture on the cloth he tried to use on the Ketner Lake victim. What could that chemical be that is deadly?

 

[ellabella]

Yes if he has a smartphone. You also don't need a data plan. My daughter's phone can access the internet if there is WiFi.

Tis is true however most school based or public based wifi servers will not allow certain sites etc even on the persons own device. For ex. When my husband is at work, he can use the schools wifi, but cannot check Facebook, or read a geek news site he likes because they have been blocked from students(and faculty by proxy). If he wanted to view that he would have to have the smarts to override the servers, or have a data plan.

 

[kkdj]

I think a lot of this starts with little things.....kid wants a FB acct. at 8, 9, 10 etc. No big deal....parents help set it up. Want to see a PG-13 movie at 7? No problem. Parents order it. Smoking weed is illegal ( except for medicinal) but parents smoke it, anyway. Alcohol? Parents provide that, also. Monitoring the internet?? Silly. If they can't view , gore, etc. at home, they will just go to a friends house. Lets the parent off the hook. Takes too much time to monitor and the kid might get mad....bad grades? Blame the teacher. Get arrested? Blame the cops. Etc. A lot, I believe a whole lot, of kids grow up thinking rules don't apply to them. Laws don't apply to them. I don't think AS had an abusive childhood. I think he had a childhood where anything goes. Jessica paid the ultimate price for it.

I respectfully disagree.
Seems to me his mother was a loving hardworking single mother who even saw to it to address his addiction.
I suspect a mental illness captured a brilliant lonely teen and his mother kept trying to work towards mental health with her son whom she loves very much.

 

[Innocent Bystander]

There is a horrible page on Facebook in support if AS but the worst part is the stuff they are posting. I shudder to think her family could see it. Please help me get it shut down.

Reported! Absolutely disgusting and vile. If they want to get back at this Kay Gallagher, then they should find a different way. OMG, I am in tears thinking of poor little Jessica and what she went through and then seeing this!

 

[Yellow]

Police may be simply looking at the fact that he murdered the child he successfully abducted, therefore he would have murdered the woman he attempted to abduct.

True, and that is what probably happened.

But will they be able to prove that beyond a reasonsable doubt? Also wouldn't his trial on the jogger crime be separate from AS trial? The defense will want to separate them especially all the gruesome evidence of dismemberment. Rules of evidence could potentially mean some of the evidence in JR trial could be prejudicial to him in jogger trial.

I hope they have some sort of diary or computer entry where he talks about the jogger attack. Also maybe he confessed what he was going to do to jogger.

It just it seems hard to show murder. Usually these perps escalate in crime so who knows what he intended to do. I believe he left for Virgin islands 2 days after jogger attack so his time frame to do the attack was limited.

Also I assume mom and brother would have been home Memorial Day. If brother want on trip (maybe went w dad?) they would have been packing the next day. So he would have had only Memorial Day to do all he needed to do. And he did not have car w jogger. I wonder where he was planning to take her. Mom had to have been out and he probably would have taken her to home, unless he just planned sexual assault. That is what defense could argue. He didn't have the time and space that he had w JR to do murder (of the gruesome nature) on jogger.

The jogger trial could b crucial in getting him to serve literally life. I am not sure what max sentence he can serve for JR, but they said on NG it was 40 years. So that gets him out at 57. So they have to have all of these other crimes to hopefully add up another 20-25 years to ensure he really gets life.

This guy could be a model prisoner and they want to take no chances some parol board 40 years from now lets him loose. Since when do they charge murderes w theft of a $50 (if that) backpack? They never charge for theft of jewelry, cell phone, etc which murderers often take, I don't think. They just want to add as many little crimes as possible to extend the sentence.

 

[gitana1]

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21877914/austin-sigg-would-be-rarity-among-teen-killers

Austin Sigg would be a rarity among teen killers if convicted

He certainly is a special little snowflake

Which is precisely why I thought it had to be someone older. He is an anomaly. A very dangerous, scary anomaly.

There is a horrible page on Facebook in support if AS but the worst part is the stuff they are posting. I shudder to think her family could see it. Please help me get it shut down.

If Anonymous got wind of it, they would probably work to at least out the people responsible. Especially once they notice that these creeps are using one of their videos on the page.

Those guys don;t seem to like creeps who harm kids.

 

[RoseTree]

Could AS have been watching on his cell phone?

He could have easily been watching on a hand held gaming system.

 

[carole]

True, and that is what probably happened.

But will they be able to prove that beyond a reasonsable doubt? Also wouldn't his trial on the jogger crime be separate from AS trial? The defense will want to separate them especially all the gruesome evidence of dismemberment. Rules of evidence could potentially mean some of the evidence in JR trial could be prejudicial to him in jogger trial.

I hope they have some sort of diary or computer entry where he talks about the jogger attack. Also maybe he confessed what he was going to do to jogger.

It just it seems hard to show murder. Usually these perps escalate in crime so who knows what he intended to do. I believe he left for Virgin islands 2 days after jogger attack so his time frame to do the attack was limited.

Also I assume mom and brother would have been home Memorial Day. If brother want on trip (maybe went w dad?) they would have been packing the next day. So he would have had only Memorial Day to do all he needed to do. And he did not have car w jogger. I wonder where he was planning to take her. Mom had to have been out and he probably would have taken her to home, unless he just planned sexual assault. That is what defense could argue. He didn't have the time and space that he had w JR to do murder (of the gruesome nature) on jogger.

The jogger trial could b crucial in getting him to serve literally life. I am not sure what max sentence he can serve for JR, but they said on NG it was 40 years. So that gets him out at 57. So they have to have all of these other crimes to hopefully add up another 20-25 years to ensure he really gets life.

This guy could be a model prisoner and they want to take no chances some parol board 40 years from now lets him loose. Since when do they charge murderes w theft of a $50 (if that) backpack? They never charge for theft of jewelry, cell phone, etc which murderers often take, I don't think. They just want to add as many little crimes as possible to extend the sentence.

I believe it's more likely that the trip to the Virgin Islands was with Dad, not with the mom.

 

[otto]

True, and that is what probably happened.

But will they be able to prove that beyond a reasonsable doubt? Also wouldn't his trial on the jogger crime be separate from AS trial? The defense will want to separate them especially all the gruesome evidence of dismemberment. Rules of evidence could potentially mean some of the evidence in JR trial could be prejudicial to him in jogger trial.

I hope they have some sort of diary or computer entry where he talks about the jogger attack. Also maybe he confessed what he was going to do to jogger.

It just it seems hard to show murder. Usually these perps escalate in crime so who knows what he intended to do. I believe he left for Virgin islands 2 days after jogger attack so his time frame to do the attack was limited.

Also I assume mom and brother would have been home Memorial Day. If brother want on trip (maybe went w dad?) they would have been packing the next day. So he would have had only Memorial Day to do all he needed to do. And he did not have car w jogger. I wonder where he was planning to take her. Mom had to have been out and he probably would have taken her to home, unless he just planned sexual assault. That is what defense could argue. He didn't have the time and space that he had w JR to do murder (of the gruesome nature) on jogger.

The jogger trial could b crucial in getting him to serve literally life. I am not sure what max sentence he can serve for JR, but they said on NG it was 40 years. So that gets him out at 57. So they have to have all of these other crimes to hopefully add up another 20-25 years to ensure he really gets life.

This guy could be a model prisoner and they want to take no chances some parol board 40 years from now lets him loose. Since when do they charge murderes w theft of a $50 (if that) backpack? They never charge for theft of jewelry, cell phone, etc which murderers often take, I don't think. They just want to add as many little crimes as possible to extend the sentence.

You make some very interesting points. There's another problem, and that is that life without the possibility of parole is not an option for a youth offender. If he has a sentence of 57 years, that would put him in prison without the possibility of parole until the age of 74. I think that is a problem because life expectancy ... a huge variable ... is 74 for some people. If Austin had a grandfather that died of heart disease at the age of, for example, 57, it might be argued that Austin's life expectancy is 57.

You make a very good point about the cases being separated. That seems like a very good defense move. In fact, the attack on the jogger may be a case that could successfully be argued as belonging in youth court. Without the subsequent case of abduction, murder and dismemberment, that case, viewed in isolation, may be considered one where appropriate counseling and monitoring would mitigate any potential for further violence.

I think it will become a very interesting legal argument, and since it is one of the first major tests of the new law that is intended to see youths tried as youths for crimes where the youth can be rehabilitated, I think the Judge has to tread carefully ... careful regarding precedents that could undermine the intent of the change in law ... which could open a can of worms in terms of appeals.

Regarding the attack on the jogger, I think the argument of murder could be made in the sense that a toxic substance was used ... and any toxic substance can be fatal, depending on the dosage. Still, without proof of the type and amount of toxic substance, assumptions are required ... and assumptions are not really admissable.

Another problem is that the jury pool is probably already tainted, so a change of venue will be required. The more I think about it, the more I see this as taking years to wind through the court system.

 

[enzeder]

On count 13 it says he used a deadly weapon-the chemical mixture on the cloth he tried to use on the Ketner Lake victim. What could that chemical be that is deadly?

The jogger said "the rag smelled like Chloroform."

Austin Sigg's home in search area for Ketner Lake assault suspect on Memorial Day in Westminster

Excerpt: "He put a rag over her mouth and then hit her," said the dispatcher. "She's still on the north side of the lake. She said the rag smelled like Chloroform."

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ssault-suspect-on-memorial-day-in-westminster

 

[csziggy]

I respectfully disagree.
Seems to me his mother was a loving hardworking single mother who even saw to it to address his addiction.
I suspect a mental illness captured a brilliant lonely teen and his mother kept trying to work towards mental health with her son whom she loves very much.

It may not have been AS's mother who was overindulgent - if that is what led him to this end. Often in divorces the noncustodial parent will be overindulgent to try to 'buy' the children's loyalty. AS's father may have allowed things that his mother would not have. I see the racing cars as an indication of indulgence and wonder what else the father may have used as a bribe to try to win or keep his sons' affections.

JMO.

 

[kkdj]

It may not have been AS's mother who was overindulgent - if that is what led him to this end. Often in divorces the noncustodial parent will be overindulgent to try to 'buy' the children's loyalty. AS's father may have allowed things that his mother would not have. I see the racing cars as an indication of indulgence and wonder what else the father may have used as a bribe to try to win or keep his sons' affections.

JMO.

Good points.
I just think mental illness might be the problem here. Not legally insane as he placed the backpack in an area to throw off LE. So he had conscience of guilt.

 

[otto]

Regarding some of the responses from teenagers that knew Austin, I think we have to step back and give them time to process what has happened. When there is a death of a student, the school provides counseling for students because it is obvious that students need help to process the loss. In this case, the students have experienced a shock that is, in my opinion, as severe as the death of a classmate. The person that they knew for years is a complete monster. I wonder if the school has provided counseling for students that knew Austin, so that they can process what has happened in a healthy way. If not, I think we will see situations where school classmates will create social media pages where they vent their thoughts, or they'll show up at the courthouse to support their "friend".

 

[borndem]

thistle, I would agree, but with the therapy for ARS for addiction at the age 15 is more than very revealing, imo. The obvious signs were there, but ignored/denial, imo.

Again, I'm trying to get caught up with these posts, and I am way behind... But every time is mentioned in this case, I think of Ted Bundy in his interview the day before he was executed. (Please understand that I am definitely NOT comparing ARS to Ted Bundy -- it's because of Bundy's remarks about ).

Bundy talked about & how it affected him before he was brave enuff to find & kill his first victim. He was very confident when he said that soft and then hard-core became an addiction for him, and it helped give him the curiosity & the courage to carry out his fantasies. He felt that was a big part of stirring the pangs of whatever propelled him to commit those horrible kidnap-render-unconscious-rape-kill-and-rape-again acts. And he then said that alcohol was also a trigger for carrying out his fantasies.

Bunday said was the trigger...

...When Ted Bundy was thirteen years old, he discovered “dirty magazines” in a dump near his home. He was instantly captivated by them. In time, Bundy became more and more addicted to violent images in magazines and videos. He got his kicks from seeing women being tortured and murdered. When he tired of that, there was only one place his addiction could go - from fantasy to reality...

and this:

... Before we go any further, it is important to me that people believe what I’m saying. I’m not blaming . I’m not saying it caused me to go out and do certain things. I take full responsibility for all the things that I’ve done. That’s not the question here. The issue is how this kind of literature contributed and helped mold and shape the kinds of violent behavior...."

both quotes from:
http://www.pureintimacy.org/piArticles/A000000433.cfm

 

[SapphireSteel]

This is what I'd like to know.

Was ARS a lonely, brooding outcast as some reports suggest, or was he part of a peer group as the court attendances would indicate?

I have read reports of him staring down and frightening little girls while he was with friends.

I personally suspect he has one or more accomplices.

Which is it sleuthers? Is he a charismatic guy or a lonely misfit?

:dunno: