CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #22

[csziggy]

Good points.
I just think mental illness might be the problem here. Not legally insane as he placed the backpack in an area to throw off LE. So he had conscience of guilt.

Oh, AS is certainly mentally ill though as you say not legally insane. He was aware enough to hide his crimes and to try to divert law enforcement.

But there are many people with mental illness that do not kill or commit crimes. It is still up in the air as to whether it is nature (genetics) or nuture (upbringing) that might trigger someone to become the monster that AS is. Our understanding of the depths of the human brain is so crude!

 

[absentia]

This is what I'd like to know.

Was ARS a lonely, brooding outcast as some reports suggest, or was he part of a peer group as the court attendances would indicate?

I have read reports of him staring down and frightening little girls while he was with friends.

I personally suspect he has one or more accomplices.

Which is it sleuthers? Is he a charismatic guy or a lonely misfit?

:dunno:

he is a sociopath/psychopath. very easy to be charming and manipulative AND a scary freaky loner stalker.

 

[absentia]

It may not have been AS's mother who was overindulgent - if that is what led him to this end. Often in divorces the noncustodial parent will be overindulgent to try to 'buy' the children's loyalty. AS's father may have allowed things that his mother would not have. I see the racing cars as an indication of indulgence and wonder what else the father may have used as a bribe to try to win or keep his sons' affections.

JMO.

the only possibly accurate thing posted on that horrible FB page was the allegations against AS' father and his behavior towards AS. it was not simply being over-indulgent that caused this. it was serious stuff. stuff we don't know about yet.

 

[sfbaynancydrew]

This is what I'd like to know.

Was ARS a lonely, brooding outcast as some reports suggest, or was he part of a peer group as the court attendances would indicate?

I have read reports of him staring down and frightening little girls while he was with friends.

I personally suspect he has one or more accomplices.

Which is it sleuthers? Is he a charismatic guy or a lonely misfit?

:dunno:

Maybe a little of both? He definitely had friends. He had a girlfriend and he has a female friend on FB who passionately defends her decision to not abandon him as a friend, despite his crimes. (she is 18 and her page is public, so I'm not sleuthing a minor).

Now how CLOSE they were to his "hobbies" I don't know. I'm sure there was a reclusive side to him that he kept from his friends.

 

[kkdj]

Maybe a little of both? He definitely had friends. He had a girlfriend and he has a female friend on FB who passionately defends her decision to not abandon him as a friend, despite his crimes. (she is 18 and her page is public, so I'm not sleuthing a minor).

Now how CLOSE they were to his "hobbies" I don't know. I'm sure there was a reclusive side to him that he kept from his friends.

Really? I'm not sure of that. He might not of told anybody about kidnapping, raping and murdering a little girl, but I'll bet they knew of his perversions
Jmo

 

[Foxfire]

Again, I'm trying to get caught up with these posts, and I am way behind... But every time is mentioned in this case, I think of Ted Bundy in his interview the day before he was executed. (Please understand that I am definitely NOT comparing ARS to Ted Bundy -- it's because of Bundy's remarks about ).

Bundy talked about & how it affected him before he was brave enuff to find & kill his first victim. He was very confident when he said that soft and then hard-core became an addiction for him, and it helped give him the curiosity & the courage to carry out his fantasies. He felt that was a big part of stirring the pangs of whatever propelled him to commit those horrible kidnap-render-unconscious-rape-kill-and-rape-again acts. And he then said that alcohol was also a trigger for carrying out his fantasies.

Bunday said was the trigger...



...When Ted Bundy was thirteen years old, he discovered “dirty magazines” in a dump near his home. He was instantly captivated by them. In time, Bundy became more and more addicted to violent images in magazines and videos. He got his kicks from seeing women being tortured and murdered. When he tired of that, there was only one place his addiction could go - from fantasy to reality...

and this:

... Before we go any further, it is important to me that people believe what I’m saying. I’m not blaming . I’m not saying it caused me to go out and do certain things. I take full responsibility for all the things that I’ve done. That’s not the question here. The issue is how this kind of literature contributed and helped mold and shape the kinds of violent behavior...."

both quotes from:
http://www.pureintimacy.org/piArticles/A000000433.cfm

borndem, Theodore Robert "Ted" Bundy (born Theodore Robert Cowell; November 24, 1946 -executed January 24, 1989 (aged 42)
Florida State Prison, Bradford County, Florida, was a malignant sadistic psychopathic prolific serial killer.

Psychopaths have a reason for everything they say and everything they do. They are very manipulative, deflective, calculating, creative and will fool even the best of the best investigators, as well as mental health & other professionals.

Ted Bundy, was a malignant sadistic psychopathic serial killer who took pleasure from another human being pain and the control he had over his victims, to the point of death, and even beyond. He had no human emotions. According to biographer Ann Rule, Ted once said, 'I am the most cold-hearted son of a ***** you'll ever meet'..
Attorney Polly Nelson, a member of his last defense team, agreed. 'Ted, she wrote, was the very definition of heartless evil'.

Bundy, was simply evil and went to his grave without revealing his multiple unknown victims.. Bundy, is still taking victims even after his death over two decades ago; ultimate control...

'I don't expect you to understand me, I am beyond good and Evil, Lucifer dwells within us all, Lucifer will avenge me'..
Serial Killer Richard Ramirez; Night Stalker

 

[Dr. Know?]

I don't feel ARS had that big of a group following him. I've only read from a handful of kids his age. The two girls at court may just have a rude awakening one day. Smack in the face with the totality of his crime. I think they will feel stupid and if not, please watch them LE.

jmo

 

[kkdj]

Look, I don't think his addiction was the problem. I think his mental problems were manifesting themselves in his addiction.
I hope I said this so that it makes sense.

 

[kkdj]

he is a sociopath/psychopath. very easy to be charming and manipulative AND a scary freaky loner stalker.

I need to hear more history. He is so young I'm not sure how much history we might hear. However, I do believe all of this begins even before the age of 15, and slowly but surely manifests itself. And those that live with these people adjust, trying to reconcile the behaviors that are off. Been there done that. Unsettling...

 

[Dr. Know?]

Look, I don't think his addiction was the problem. I think his mental problems were manifesting themselves in his addiction.
I hope I said this so that it makes sense.

I'm pretty sure you'd have to have both problems. Mental and to be where he's at. It's a secret place he might have hidden since puberty. Hate might have been there before that age though. Not caring. Unable to stay out of trouble possibly? Always in trouble. Always doubted due to incendents in the neighborhood. Maybe a cat that was cut in half of the across the street neighbors, maybe the addiction was due to a hefty 900 call to a phone solictor? Charges on mom's cc. He might have hurt a kid but didn't get away with it fully. Just guessing.

O/T. I remember reading that when 900 numbers came out years ago for phone sex, that one of our prisons, I think it was in AZ, had a whopping $35K phone bill one month until they caught it. The prisoners were able to call 900 numbers. dang dumb...

 

[otto]

Maybe a little of both? He definitely had friends. He had a girlfriend and he has a female friend on FB who passionately defends her decision to not abandon him as a friend, despite his crimes. (she is 18 and her page is public, so I'm not sleuthing a minor).

Now how CLOSE they were to his "hobbies" I don't know. I'm sure there was a reclusive side to him that he kept from his friends.

Is there a link to this, or is this something you found while researching people that have some sort of association with the suspect?

 

[kkdj]

I'm pretty sure you'd have to have both problems. Mental and to be where he's at. It's a secret place he might have hidden since puberty. Hate might have been there before that age though. Not caring. Unable to stay out of trouble possibly? Always in trouble. Always doubted due to incendents in the neighborhood. Maybe a cat that was cut in half of the across the street neighbors, maybe the addiction was due to a hefty 900 call to a phone solictor? Charges on mom's cc. He might have hurt a kid but didn't get away with it fully. Just guessing.

O/T. I remember reading that when 900 numbers came out years ago for phone sex, that one of our prisons, I think it was in AZ, had a whopping $35K phone bill one month until they caught it. The prisoners were able to call 900 numbers. dang dumb...

My limited experience with the mentally I'll (2 males) has been that the mental illness takes over and then the perversions follow. But it's just been what I have been exposed to. But I should include that in both cases the sexual perversions became intense and extreme.

 

[teedie2]

I'm way behind reading, but thank goodness, the question of the Sigg swimming pool has been put to rest. Thanks so much to the posters who were able to locate the darned thing!

 

[otto]

Really? I'm not sure of that. He might not of told anybody about kidnapping, raping and murdering a little girl, but I'll bet they knew of his perversions
Jmo

One perversion that stands out is that he liked to play a game with the 11 year old neighborhood girls. Was it kick the can? Wasn't there a group of young girls and he played some sort of game with them?

There's something perverse about that. He's too old and it's all wrong. I wonder if the other children's parents knew that a 17 year old boy was with their daughters. Did they think that it was a good thing ... that their daughters were safe with a 17 year old neighborhood boy as he would keep an eye on them; keep them safe?

 

[GrainneDhu]

On count 13 it says he used a deadly weapon-the chemical mixture on the cloth he tried to use on the Ketner Lake victim. What could that chemical be that is deadly?

Keep in mind the old saying "the danger is in the dose." Anything in too large a dose can be deadly, including water and sunshine.

Another old saying about anesthesiologists: "you're not paying them to put you to sleep, you pay them to wake you up again." Ether and chloroform can be deadly and the titration capacity inherent in using a rag clapped across someone's face is nil. With ether, it's not that big a step from asleep to dead.

 

[otto]

Look, I don't think his addiction was the problem. I think his mental problems were manifesting themselves in his addiction.
I hope I said this so that it makes sense.

It makes sense. It seems like you agree with the reference posted by borndom, that not all people that look at become violent murderers, but those with a propensity towards sadism can turn fastasy into reality if they want a better high. I understood there there is a desensitization that occurs from looking at hardcore , That desensitization can lead from the first playboy to penthouse to hardcore to a point of no satiation ... and fantasy turns to reality.

 

[kkdj]

One perversion that stands out is that he liked to play a game with the 11 year old neighborhood girls. Was it kick the can? Wasn't there a group of young girls and he played some sort of game with them?

There's something perverse about that. He's too old and it's all wrong. I wonder if the other children's parents knew that a 17 year old boy was with their daughters. Did they think that it was a good thing ... that their daughters were safe with a 17 year old neighborhood boy as he would keep an eye on them; keep them safe?

Right. That sure as heck would get my hinky meter in overdrive!
But I think lots of people just kind of say "nah! Couldn't be what I'm thinking! He's just being a cool neighborhood boy!"
Basically it's just too unbelievable to continue to entertain the thought that goes with ones hinkey meter. ( for most people)

 

[GrainneDhu]

It is really interesting to me how little is actually known about Sigg and yet he seems to act as a screen upon which people project their opinions and fantasies about what is wrong with society today, music today, the way children are raised, etc.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I've read chloroform can be deadly also. I'll look for links tomrrow though. It was in Caylee's case from what I remember.

Either one. dang.

 

[kkdj]

It makes sense. It seems like you agree with the reference posted by borndom, that not all people that look at become violent murderers, but those with a propensity towards sadism can turn fastasy into reality if they want a better high. I understood there there is a desensitization that occurs from looking at hardcore , That desensitization can lead from the first playboy to penthouse to hardcore to a point of no satiation ... and fantasy turns to reality.

What I am trying to say is that the mental illness sets in (not because of ) and then the mental illness somewhat expresses it's personality thru it's attraction to and violence.
I'm having a hard time explaining my thinking on this but I'll keep trying.