CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #23

[tlcya]

Frankly, after the attempts at personality profiling and the feathers it ruffled earlier, I won't even hazard guess regarding whether drugs may have played a role.

I will be doing litle specuating henceforth in this thread, and with news to discuss coming out at a snails pace, there's realy not much for me to do in here til trial ave for linkarticles and read those linked by others.

Disappointiing for me, but hey, life goes on right?

 

[otto]

I'm several pages behind the current conversation but thought I would add this. Being in education for 31 years, I know some things about busing issues. The decision on which students are transported by school bus depends on transportation budget issues. In my state, the state department of education provides funds to bus students to school if they live more than a mile and a half from their school. If they live within a mile and a half, no funds are provided by the state to transport. Some systems in my state adhere strictly to the state guidelines. Other systems, mine included, choose to provide local funds to transport students who live within a mile and a half. I know that the planning of locations for new schools can hinge on placing the schools more than a mile and a half so they can get more transportation money. The state where I grew up in the 1960s and 1970s did not transport students who lived within the city limits.

I rode the school bus for every year of schooling until I went to University, and then my father drove me. I really enjoyed the bus ride, even though it was 30 minutes with many stops. It gave me time at the beginning and end of each day to think.

Apparently both Jessica and Austin's brother lived within walking distance of their respective schools.

 

[Jax49]

Thank you for this. So Jessica was halfway there and the house was on the same side of the road, or the opposite?

She walked past the park, not through the park. There is a long tall fence opposite Chelsea park, closest to her house. I still don't understand how he came up behind her. I looked for a link to that (did a u-turn and came up behind her) today and no luck ... I wonder if that became part of the gag order.

http://www.coloradoconnection.com/news/story.aspx?id=817133

The source said Sigg told police he drove by Jessica Ridgeway on the morning of October 5th, turned his car around, grabbed her, brought her into the car where he hog-tied her and then he strangled her to death.

 

[enzeder]

I'm still currently trying to locate the statutes concerning the affirmitive defense of insanity in CO.

Just out of curiosity. We won't know if that's what his defense plans until he is arraigned and formally charged. IMHO.

As I said I haven't found them yet, if someone has a link to them please feel free to throw them on the thread!

I don't think they will go this way and there are several reasons why but foremost it would be hard to demonstrate that he was impaired to such an extent that he did not know right from wrong. IMHO the crime not only fits the legal definition of premeditation but exceeds it in that I do think he, without any doubt, (at the very least) made a conscious choice to abduct her and sexually assault her. The subsequent murder and dismemberment, may or may not have been planned in advance, but shows an intent to conceal the first two crimes. (at the very least).

He is going to do hard time. JMHO

May not be what you are looking for but hope it helps.

Colorado Statutes

Title 16. CRIMINAL PROCEEDINGS

CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

Article 8. Insanity - Release

http://search.jurisearch.com/NLLXML...12&Title=16&datatype=S&noheader=1&nojumpmsg=0

INSANITY AS A DEFENSE IN COLORADO

Excerpt: "Insanity means "a person so diseased or defective in mind at the time of the commission of the act as to be incapable of distinguishing right from wrong with respect to that act is not accountable." C.R.S. 16-8-101.5. You can also be insane if you "suffered from a condition of mind caused by mental disease or defect that prevented the person from forming a culpable mental state that is an essential element of a crime charged." Practically speaking, this means that a defendant could not form "intent" or "knowingly" have done something. There are several procedural hoops which a criminal defendant must pass through to qualify for this defense."

http://www.omalleylawoffice.com/blog/2011/12/insanity-as-a-defense-in-colorado.shtml

Concerning a restructuring of the not guilty by reason of insanity defense, and, in connection therewith, merging the impaired mental condition defense into the not guilty by reason of insanity defense and eliminating the separate hearing on the insanity defense.

Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of Colorado:

http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/olls/sl1995/sl_26.htm

Colorado Statutes

Title 18. CRIMINAL CODE

Article 1. Provisions Applicable to Offenses Generally

Part 4. RIGHTS OF DEFENDANT

Current through the 2012 First Extraordinary Session
§ 18-1-407. Affirmative defense

http://search.jurisearch.com/NLLXML...12&Title=18&datatype=S&noheader=1&nojumpmsg=0

 

[Mustang Sally]

Could you tell me where to find the recording of AS's voice? THX.

I am so sorry...but I do not have a clue...My DH's older sister (72yo) passed away Saturday afternoon and my life has been quite a mess. His mother turned 93 on Friday....and this has hit her hard. Family matters have been more pressing than WS.

I have popped on here and there... and remember hearing him speak for a very brief period...I can't even remember what he said. I seems that it had something to do with a school assignment. Perhaps someone else can research or remember more details.

Does Anyone remember the short clip of AS talking??? It had to have been in a MSM story or I would not have heard him speak!

Dear God...Please Bless Jessica Ridgeways Family & Friends!

 

[SapphireSteel]

Sigg’s father has been in and out of legal trouble and his mother had financial problems and a history of divorce.

Austin Sigg’s father, Robert J. Sigg, has a history of both civil and criminal problems. Court records show the father was arrested for driving under the influence in Douglas County in 2004, domestic violence in the same county, and DUI arrests in Arapahoe and Jefferson counties. He also had an assault arrest in Jefferson County and a drug dealing arrest in Weld County.

The FBI arrested Robert Sigg and he was convicted in 2006 for involvement in a mortgage fraud scheme.

Records show Robert Sigg has been married and divorced several times and has been wrapped up in dozens of civil actions over money.

A couple of thoughts -

Both parents had a "history of divorce".

I wonder what sort of dysfunction the other spouses have brought with them over the years.

I wonder if there are ex-step siblings or ex-step parents still hanging around who also share or have somehow encouraged this sick fantasy world ARS appears to have slipped into?

It would seem statistically likely that ARS was a victim of sexual abuse himself. If a step parent was dodgy, who knows what he's been through?

It's no excuse, but it's interesting to ponder, especially in view of his sexual addiction treatment at 15.

:waitasec:

 

[pearl]

I rode the school bus for every year of schooling until I went to University, and then my father drove me. I really enjoyed the bus ride, even though it was 30 minutes with many stops. It gave me time at the beginning and end of each day to think.

Apparently both Jessica and Austin's brother lived within walking distance of their respective schools.

Living within the city limits as I did, I never got to ride the bus to school. I really wanted to ride it. Our twice yearly field trips in elementary school were my only experiences with school buses. My mother's car was considered the "bus" for our street, crammed to the roof each day with 7 kids and a dog riding in the back window ledge.

 

[otto]

Austin is one very sick person. I don't care what neurological exception he may have, regardless of which combination of autism, dyslexia, insanity, sociopathy, hyperactivity, and whatever else, is put together. What we see in Austin is an extremely dangerous person.

 

[nikb]

Could you tell me where to find the recording of AS's voice? THX.

The only one I recall reading about was on a disturbing (based on others' descriptions) YouTube video that I am pretty thankful I missed. As far as I know it was taken down pretty quickly. I know that some members saw/heard it but I don't think you can get to it now. In one article a former classmate of his described him being bullied for his high pitched voice, but I don't recall any links to audio/video affiliated with that article.

 

[Kat]

I rode the school bus for every year of schooling until I went to University, and then my father drove me. I really enjoyed the bus ride, even though it was 30 minutes with many stops. It gave me time at the beginning and end of each day to think.

Apparently both Jessica and Austin's brother lived within walking distance of their respective schools.

Yes I agree.

http://www.jeffcopublicschools.org/transportation/faqs_for_parents.html#2

School district policy determines who is eligible for transportation according to the distance from which they live from their school, and their grade level.

Elementary walk in distance is approximately one mile
Middle School walk in distance is approximately two miles
High School walk in distance is approximately two and one half miles
Additionally, the Director of Transportation may assess the route a student must walk to their school. Serious safety hazards that students encounter on that route are considered by an equitable, graded system to determine if additional transportation services are needed within the above walk-in boundaries.

These hazards may include: (1) walking along a roadway, (2) walking on a roadway, (3) crossing certain roadways, and (4) crossing railroad tracks.

 

[kkdj]

I don't know what went haywire with AS or when. But something is very off! Who knows when his family realized it and just kept trying to do whatever they hoped might help. Us the denial, let alone not being able to expect what he might do next. I would suppose that household was tense, what with AS seemingly (reportedly by his friends) getting weirder and weirder.
I have an adult nephew who has always been a little odd. He has always been such a sweetheart too. As an adult he never could hold down a job or a relationship and could never stay focused on furthering his education. I just found out that he has been hospitalized twice in the last year for psychosis. He is currently in a mental hospital.
His parents are not telling people what he has been going thru nor what they are suffering. My point being, families are private. We font know how much and how hard AS parents tried and suffered. But alas, as hard as they tried they could not save him from himself.
Now I'm not suggesting he suffers from anything like my nephew. But something is haywire. And people were noticing his deterioration.
So so sad on so many levels.
RIP Jessica
Peace to her family
Prayers to AS family

 

[otto]

Thank you for the link ... this is very gruesome. It sounds like a 17 year old addict and mortuary science student spots young girl at 8:30 AM. He turns his car around, grabs her, hog ties her, takes her somewhere, strangles her and dismembers her ... leaving her remains in both the crawl space of his home and a culvert on a seldom used road. He placed her backpack in a third location, in the hopes of "throwing off the police".

"The source said Sigg told police he drove by Jessica Ridgeway on the morning of October 5th, turned his car around, grabbed her, brought her into the car where he hog-tied her and then he strangled her to death.

"We hope and pray that this arrest gives them some measure of closure in dealing with this horrible tragedy and loss that they have suffered," Chief Lee Birk, Wesminster PD"

http://www.coloradoconnection.com/news/story.aspx?id=817133

 

[nikb]

Yes I agree.

http://www.jeffcopublicschools.org/transportation/faqs_for_parents.html#2

Awesome find on the info Kat. Thanks.

 

[Kat]

But he stopped talking to Sigg roughly a year ago, when Sigg seemed to become even more of a hothead amid problems at school and at home.

Other students picked on Sigg over his dark choices in clothing, his voice and his sometimes-abrasive personality, says Caisse.

http://www.people.com/people/articl...OPLE.com:+Top+Headlines)&utm_content=My+Yahoo

BBM

Does anyone feel that possible alcohol/drug use could also have played a role in his change of personality???

A lot of teenagers use substances to escape (and adults too....) and to also possibly self-medicate???

Speculation and opinion below:

It's possible scorekeeper IMHO.

It's also possible that he may have had the first symptoms of a subtype of schizophrenia.

It's also possible that he may have suffered the first symptoms of another mental illness.

It's possible that he may have had a PD that has developed into a more extreme form lately.

It's also possible that none of the above are applicable. JMHO.

At this point who knows? Either way, looking at the statutes (thank you so much enzeder!) he isn't going to be able to use any of those (as a defense) even if they are accurate. jmho)

JMHO

 

[otto]

I don't know what went haywire with AS or when. But something is very off! Who knows when his family realized it and just kept trying to do whatever they hoped might help. Us the denial, let alone not being able to expect what he might do next. I would suppose that household was tense, what with AS seemingly (reportedly by his friends) getting weirder and weirder.
I have an adult nephew who has always been a little odd. He has always been such a sweetheart too. As an adult he never could hold down a job or a relationship and could never stay focused on furthering his education. I just found out that he has been hospitalized twice in the last year for psychosis. He is currently in a mental hospital.
His parents are not telling people what he has been going thru nor what they are suffering. My point being, families are private. We font know how much and how hard AS parents tried and suffered. But alas, as hard as they tried they could not save him from himself.
Now I'm not suggesting he suffers from anything like my nephew. But something is haywire. And people were noticing his deterioration.
So so sad on so many levels.
RIP Jessica
Peace to her family
Prayers to AS family

I read somewhere, perhaps in connection with the Elizabeth and Lyric disappearance, that no one starts with kidnapping/disappearing people ... there's always something before that. I think something may have come up with Austin in relation to the game he played with the 11 year old girls: capture the flag, much like kick the can, I assume.

In kick the can, one person seeks and counts to 10, everyone else hides. When the seeker finds the first person, they form a team and seek the others, sometimes with a surprise coalition. Austin had counseling for addiction at the age of 15, and I think it's a possibility that this was court ordered, perhaps based on an abnormal interest in young girls.

What did Austin do before he murdered Jessica? He may have practiced cutting a body if he cut the neighbor's cat in half ... he left it behind their house. He practiced abducting someone when he attacked the 22 year old woman in Ketner Lake Park. Was his first criminal act attacking the jogger in the park? Was there no one in his family that noticed his addiction was dangerous?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Found a very wordy but valuable document about young violent offenders.

They list 24 risk factors.

Even with the very little we know about him, I can confirm off the bat that ARS has at least half of these risk factors, quite possibly more.

Something that caught my eye especially is this, under the "Family Violence" risk factors -

"other factors that pose additional risk (to male children) in violent families include a high incidence of other behaviour problems (eg alcohol abuse and incarceration) in male batterers. Maternal psychological distress may also expose children to additional indirect risks".

We know there is parental involvement with drugs, domestic violence and crime.

As ARS's parents divorced when he was only 4, there's a good chance he was exposed to a lot of upheaval (and possibly violence) at an early age, followed by a lot more upheaval afterwards with the subsequent stepfamilies/divorces.

I'm not trying to make excuses, or bash the family, just commenting on the sad state of the world really that so many kids do grow up this way.

:dunno:

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/193409.pdf

 

[Kat]

Found a very wordy but valuable document about young violent offenders.

They list 24 risk factors.

Even with the very little we know about him, I can confirm off the bat that ARS has at least half of these risk factors, quite possibly more.

Something that caught my eye especially is this, under the "Family Violence" risk factors -

"other factors that pose additional risk (to male children) in violent families include a high incidence of other behaviour problems (eg alcohol abuse and incarceration) in male batterers. Maternal psychological distress may also expose children to additional indirect risks".

We know there is parental involvement with drugs, domestic violence and crime.

As ARS's parents divorced when he was only 4, there's a good chance he was exposed to a lot of upheaval (and possibly violence) at an early age, followed by a lot more upheaval afterwards with the subsequent stepfamilies/divorces.

I'm not trying to make excuses, or bash the family, just commenting on the sad state of the world really that so many kids do grow up this way.

:dunno:

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/193409.pdf

No worries SS (as they say here on the island).

There are WS members that focus on different aspects of crimes.

Looking at offender pysch profile is one.

(I like to intently watch the trials myself!)

thanks for the doc.

 

[borndem]

I still think it's very likely that no one saw anything. Moore St is somewhat narrow and there are a fair amount of cars parked (parallel). The section between Jessica's house and the park is curved such that one cannot see the house from the park, and it's not a long distance (100-150 yards?). It was a cold morning and most working people would have left an hour before Jessica started her walk at 8:30. It was cold and misty that morning, and it's possible that if she had the hood on her jacket up that he could have ambushed her from behind, knocked her out (chemical or by force), and gotten her in the Jeep before anyone saw anything. This is all just my speculation, but I think it's totally understandable that no one witnessed anything.

I live just 0.8 miles from Jessica's house in a newer segment that's not nearly as dense. When I leave for work (sometimes at 8:30), I have to go about 500 yards to get to the main road, and sometimes I don't see a soul outside.

A big thanks, Eireannach -- there's nothing like having one's actual boots on the ground, so to speak. Your point about her hood was a good one, too.

And how long would it take to quietly & quickly walk up behind her, your car close with maybe the door open, to put your hand or a rag or duct tape in your hand up to her mouth & nose, grab her and put her in the car? 10 seconds or less? Make sure the child-lock is ON so that she can't open the back door (and if she was drugged, she'd be out).

Did he follow her home one day, or watch her leave for school one day & plot out just the spot where he would grab her? It's possible.

Your scenario makes a lot of sense to me. And it's so darn sad.

 

[enzeder]

Sorry if posted already.

Defense team wants Sigg tried as a juvenile

Tue Nov 6, 2012

Excerpt: "Professor of Law at the University of Colorado Law School in Boulder, Aya Gruber, said although the defense is taking this approach, in her opinion, Sigg would still end up being tried as an adult. She said due to the fact that he is on the cusp of being an adult at the age of 17, and because of the nature of the extremely violent crime he is being charged with, she would guess the judge will decide on adult court, rather than juvenile court.

“Sigg is faced with first-degree murder, a class one felony, so I would be very surprised if this were to make it back in juvenile court,” she said."

http://www.ourcoloradonews.com/arva...cle_50927a34-f75a-5252-987d-c9d284f77862.html

 

[SapphireSteel]

Sorry if posted already.

Defense team wants Sigg tried as a juvenile

Tue Nov 6, 2012

http://www.ourcoloradonews.com/arva...cle_50927a34-f75a-5252-987d-c9d284f77862.html

:lol: