Found Deceased CO - Joseph Keller, 18, Antonito, 23 July 2015 - #1

[Caramel]

This is what I expect when someone goes missing in the wilderness.

In Colorado, Search and Rescue is organized sort of like volunteer fire departments. Most of the SAR organizations are all volunteer and donor supported. They are trained. There is a system for deployment and inter-agency cooperation. But there have been other, volunteer searchers for Joe Keller, as well. From an NBC news article from August 19th:
" Thus far, there have been no real clues as to what may have happened. Volunteers poured into the remote Colorado area as searchers took to four-wheelers and horseback to scour the many trails breaking the landscape. The Keller family, along with five other close family members and friends, flew out from Tennessee the day after Joe vanished.

"Anything is possible at this point," Neal Keller told Dateline NBC. He remains in Colorado searching for his son. "There has been no sign, no clue, no nothing." "

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Such a curious case...
I finally read all the posts, but need some clarification:

It was mentioned that the guys went trap shooting. Is this a ranch activity, or something they did on their own?

MSM reports say that CG was the last to see JK. In an above post it was stated that people on the ranch saw him that afternoon. Is that verified by a link anywhere, and if so do we have a time? (Sorry, I tried to look at all links, but I literally started reading this thread today and my eyes are a bit glazed after getting through all the pages, and it's been hard to discern what was in reference to a fb comment and to be taken as rumor, and what we can put more weight on.)

Also, I read that the dogs did not pick up hes scent at all. I find this odd. I thought it was pretty early on that the dogs were brought out and I didn't think there had been rain in the area that may have washed away the scent, but I'm certainly no SAR expert, although I know we have some available on WebSlueths. I'm curious as to why there was no scent picked up at all and if the dogs could have at least picked up the scent of his friend, or if these pooches had faulty sniffers...

TIA to anyone who can clarify for me!

I haven't seen anything that states explicitly whether trapshooting was something they did on their own or there were others present. The most important part of this aspect of the case (i.e., that Joe, CG and CF went trapshooting) to me is whether anyone saw Joe afterward. I have also wondered where Joe and his friends were able to access the firearms required (shotguns?). Did they bring their own? Does the ranch rent them out since trapshooting is one of the activities offered there? Are all of the firearms accounted for, and have they been forensically processed?

By the way, below is where I first read that Joe, CG and CF had gone trapshooting. I haven't been able to find anything by MSM that mentions them going trapshooting. I certainly do not consider this to be a MSM source, and thus normally would not link, but another poster already shared the link upthread (#387), and that post was not deleted, so I'm taking the liberty of sharing it once again:

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228890#/forumsite/21086/topics/228890

Personally, I do believe that the post was left by Joe's brother, and the information legitimate. Technically (as per WS TOS), it's to be considered rumor.

There are two posts (one by someone who appears to be Joe's sister-in-law, and another by someone I recognize as a professor at the university where my dad works; both left on Aug. 14th under a post by a page admin dated Aug. 13th) on the FJK FB page that pertain to Joe's presence at the ranch on the day he disappeared. While neither one says specifically who was last to see Joe, Joe's SIL states he ate lunch with his aunt before the supposed run, and the prof says her son and nieces (in post #627 I made an error in saying that it was her nephew who met Joe; I just looked up her post again, and it was actually her son and nieces) met Joe that Thursday afternoon. Still, I'm left wondering what time and by whom Joe was last seen before his supposed run with CG.

Again, personally, I believe both of the above statements to be true, but according to WS TOS, rumor.

As for the dogs: In one of his posts to the forum as linked above, Joe's brother says they have had cadaver, trail, and rescue dogs but didn't find anything. As to the timing of the canine search, the aforementioned prof. left a rather lengthy post on Canejos County Sheriff's Office FB page, in which she says that the dogs didn't even come until Saturday. This post is dated Aug. 26th, and is found under the post about an upcoming search and rescue meeting, and in reply to a comment left by another poster. I found the prof's post informative in that it gives a much clearer picture of how the search was handled over the first 48 or so hours after Joe's disappearance. Unfortunately, it's not a pretty one .... Again, to be treated as rumor as the info is found on FB.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Such a curious case...
I finally read all the posts, but need some clarification:

It was mentioned that the guys went trap shooting. Is this a ranch activity, or something they did on their own?

MSM reports say that CG was the last to see JK. In an above post it was stated that people on the ranch saw him that afternoon. Is that verified by a link anywhere, and if so do we have a time? (Sorry, I tried to look at all links, but I literally started reading this thread today and my eyes are a bit glazed after getting through all the pages, and it's been hard to discern what was in reference to a fb comment and to be taken as rumor, and what we can put more weight on.)

Also, I read that the dogs did not pick up hes scent at all. I find this odd. I thought it was pretty early on that the dogs were brought out and I didn't think there had been rain in the area that may have washed away the scent, but I'm certainly no SAR expert, although I know we have some available on WebSlueths. I'm curious as to why there was no scent picked up at all and if the dogs could have at least picked up the scent of his friend, or if these pooches had faulty sniffers...

TIA to anyone who can clarify for me!

About the canine search: The following article by The Denver Post says that 15 dogs were deployed in the search for Joe:

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_2...es-indefinitely-suspend-search-tennessee-teen

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Such a curious case...
I finally read all the posts, but need some clarification:

It was mentioned that the guys went trap shooting. Is this a ranch activity, or something they did on their own?

MSM reports say that CG was the last to see JK. In an above post it was stated that people on the ranch saw him that afternoon. Is that verified by a link anywhere, and if so do we have a time? (Sorry, I tried to look at all links, but I literally started reading this thread today and my eyes are a bit glazed after getting through all the pages, and it's been hard to discern what was in reference to a fb comment and to be taken as rumor, and what we can put more weight on.)

Also, I read that the dogs did not pick up hes scent at all. I find this odd. I thought it was pretty early on that the dogs were brought out and I didn't think there had been rain in the area that may have washed away the scent, but I'm certainly no SAR expert, although I know we have some available on WebSlueths. I'm curious as to why there was no scent picked up at all and if the dogs could have at least picked up the scent of his friend, or if these pooches had faulty sniffers...

TIA to anyone who can clarify for me!

So sorry for the multiple -and lengthy!- posts ...: I have also wondered if the dogs were able to follow CG's supposed route. If they were not able to, one might argue that he never went for a run. Alternatively, one could also say why expect the dogs who weren't able to pick up Joe's scent to pick up CG's (unless using two separate groups of dogs; even then, it would be difficult to draw a definitive conclusion, IMO). If the dogs were able to trace CG's supposed route, it might mean that CG is being truthful at least about going for a run, and where he ran, but if the dogs were indeed not brought out until Saturday, he would have had all day Friday and part of Satueday to go for a run, too.

By the way, according to The Denver Post, there was no precipitation in the Antonito area on the 23rd or 24th:

http://extras.denverpost.com/weather/historical/antonito/2015/july/

 

[CookieM]

So sorry for the multiple -and lengthy!- posts ...: I have also wondered if the dogs were able to follow CG's supposed route. If they were not able to, one might argue that he never went for a run. Alternatively, one could also say why expect the dogs who weren't able to pick up Joe's scent to pick up CG's (unless using two separate groups of dogs; even then, it would be difficult to draw a definitive conclusion, IMO). If the dogs were able to trace CG's supposed route, it might mean that CG is being truthful at least about going for a run, and where he ran, but if the dogs were indeed not brought out until Saturday, he would have had all day Friday and part of Satueday to go for a run, too.

By the way, according to The Denver Post, there was no precipitation in the Antonito area on the 23rd or 24th:

http://extras.denverpost.com/weather/historical/antonito/2015/july/

Thanks so much for your input! Many of the things you have brought up fall in line with my thinking. My curiosity about the dogs was exactly for the reasons you mentioned. Could they pick up CG's scent? If so, then wouldn't they pick up Joe's? But of course we don't know if the dogs attempted to follow CG's scent at all. Like I said, I'm no SAR expert, but if dogs couldn't pick up the scent of the person I was looking for, but I knew another guy was running along the same route for part of the time at least, I might think to see if the dogs could pick up the other person's scent. But that's just MOO.

I am also curious about the weapons used in the trapshooting. Accidents happen. That's a possibility I think. For some reason I keep going back to that in my mind. There are just a lot of questions I have that we may never get the answers to, unfortunately.

 

[Treelights]

In My Opinion, I would think that the dogs were used to find the scent of Joe Keller.
Since Joe's running partner can tell LE where he himself ran, I don't see them using a valuable resource such as the dogs to use on CG's scent, unless
they felt he was a person of interest or suspect, imoo.
I doubt they would have used those dogs on CG's scent.
As it was the dogs did not detect the scent of Joe Keller.
IMOO.

 

[bakerlady]

I haven't seen anything that states explicitly whether trapshooting was something they did on their own or there were others present. The most important part of this aspect of the case (i.e., that Joe, CG and CF went trapshooting) to me is whether anyone saw Joe afterward. I have also wondered where Joe and his friends were able to access the firearms required (shotguns?). Did they bring their own? Does the ranch rent them out since trapshooting is one of the activities offered there? Are all of the firearms accounted for, and have they been forensically processed?

By the way, below is where I first read that Joe, CG and CF had gone trapshooting. I haven't been able to find anything by MSM that mentions them going trapshooting. I certainly do not consider this to be a MSM source, and thus normally would not link, but another poster already shared the link upthread (#387), and that post was not deleted, so I'm taking the liberty of sharing it once again:

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228890#/forumsite/21086/topics/228890

Personally, I do believe that the post was left by Joe's brother, and the information legitimate. Technically (as per WS TOS), it's to be considered rumor.

There are two posts (one by someone who appears to be Joe's sister-in-law, and another by someone I recognize as a professor at the university where my dad works; both left on Aug. 14th under a post by a page admin dated Aug. 13th) on the FJK FB page that pertain to Joe's presence at the ranch on the day he disappeared. While neither one says specifically who was last to see Joe, Joe's SIL states he ate lunch with his aunt before the supposed run, and the prof says her son and nieces (in post #627 I made an error in saying that it was her nephew who met Joe; I just looked up her post again, and it was actually her son and nieces) met Joe that Thursday afternoon. Still, I'm left wondering what time and by whom Joe was last seen before his supposed run with CG.

Again, personally, I believe both of the above statements to be true, but according to WS TOS, rumor.

As for the dogs: In one of his posts to the forum as linked above, Joe's brother says they have had cadaver, trail, and rescue dogs but didn't find anything. As to the timing of the canine search, the aforementioned prof. left a rather lengthy post on Canejos County Sheriff's Office FB page, in which she says that the dogs didn't even come until Saturday. This post is dated Aug. 26th, and is found under the post about an upcoming search and rescue meeting, and in reply to a comment left by another poster. I found the prof's post informative in that it gives a much clearer picture of how the search was handled over the first 48 or so hours after Joe's disappearance. Unfortunately, it's not a pretty one .... Again, to be treated as rumor as the info is found on FB.

that link you posted is somewhat puzzling to me. It says that member joined in 2006. Does Joe have a brother in his mid to late 20's?

 

[Scout12]

I have been following this case very closely, and my opinion, and my opinion only, is that the friends have absolutely nothing to do with any harm that came to Joe. I also strongly feel that the friends are not withholding any pertinent information.

Regarding the suggestion that something sinister happened that is forcing the family to remain tight-lipped, like Joe has been kidnapped, etc. If that is true, why is the family still gathering search parties? I saw a comment somewhere (I have read so many articles, I can't remember where I read it - don't have link - so if this needs to be deleted, I understand) where a man recounted seeing Joe's dad still walking that road his son disappeared on 30 days after he disappeared. That image is branded on my heart - so sad to think of him walking that road again and again with a heavy, heavy heart, just like any of us would in the same position.

It just bothers me to see such speculation about the friends ... I understand why there's speculation, but imo, it's just looking in the wrong direction. The best thing we can do is pray diligently for Joe, his family and friends. Thanks for listening.

 

[Caramel]

Yep, tight-lipped people don't give statements to Dateline, pretty much definitionally.

IMO

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

that link you posted is somewhat puzzling to me. It says that member joined in 2006. Does Joe have a brother in his mid to late 20's?

FJK FB page > Visitot Posts > Post by SRTO dated Aug. 8th at 8:17 am > Replies from JR-S > Go to JR-S' FB page; he left a post on July 24th at 7:42 pm re: "(his) brother joe." I have read somewhere that he is a half-brother, but I cannot recall where, so please consider rumor .

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

In My Opinion, I would think that the dogs were used to find the scent of Joe Keller.
Since Joe's running partner can tell LE where he himself ran, I don't see them using a valuable resource such as the dogs to use on CG's scent, unless
they felt he was a person of interest or suspect, imoo.
I doubt they would have used those dogs on CG's scent.
As it was the dogs did not detect the scent of Joe Keller.
IMOO.

I agree: In fact, if I were Joe's mom and found out such a precious resource as SAR dogs was being used to verify the account given by my son's very close friend since kindergarten, I would probably be confused, or even infuriated ("Why can't you believe him? Time is of the essence!"). Plus, given the information available early on (at least what has been reported by MSM), LE wouldn't have had a reason to think such process was necessary. And yes, what is most likely to have happened is that the dogs just didn't pick up Joe's scent. I've read about cases where dogs have done some amazing work, whether cadaver, rescue or trail, but I have also read of multiple cases where, in the end, SAR dogs were proven not to have been effective.

All MOO.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

For reference purposes (informative and to-the-point, IMO): Search and Rescue Dogs of the United States:

http://www.sardogsus.org/id53.html

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

I have been following this case very closely, and my opinion, and my opinion only, is that the friends have absolutely nothing to do with any harm that came to Joe. I also strongly feel that the friends are not withholding any pertinent information.

Regarding the suggestion that something sinister happened that is forcing the family to remain tight-lipped, like Joe has been kidnapped, etc. If that is true, why is the family still gathering search parties? I saw a comment somewhere (I have read so many articles, I can't remember where I read it - don't have link - so if this needs to be deleted, I understand) where a man recounted seeing Joe's dad still walking that road his son disappeared on 30 days after he disappeared. That image is branded on my heart - so sad to think of him walking that road again and again with a heavy, heavy heart, just like any of us would in the same position.

It just bothers me to see such speculation about the friends ... I understand why there's speculation, but imo, it's just looking in the wrong direction. The best thing we can do is pray diligently for Joe, his family and friends. Thanks for listening.

Joe, his family, friends and their families are in my thoughts every day. In fact, I must admit I have become somewhat obsessed with this case, and have been spending way too much time trying to figure out what the heck happened here, and whether there is anything I can do to help bring Joe home.

There are numerous theories as to what may have happened to Joe, and, in my opinion, they are all viable (to varying degrees). Just like the majority of missing persons' cases, I feel that anything is possible. So what I have been trying to do is to look at whatever information is available, while remaining objective, and to identify most likely scenarios. I sincerely hope that neither of Joe's buddies had anything to do with his disappearance; after all, the three of them appear to have been very close, and it simply would be absolutely horrific if he/they did. I just would like to know:

1) When, where and by whom -other than CG and CF- was Joe last seen? In particulat, did anyone see Joe after he and his friends went trapshooting?

2) Why did LE not show at the ranch until after midnight, at which time Joe would have been missing for at least seven hours? Were they called to the property hours before, but couldn't make it there until then (for whatever reason)? Did CG and CF alert someone -e.g., ranch staff, family member and/or friend via phone/text, etc.- much earlier, but were advised not to contact authorities at first, and if so, why?

3) What prompted LE to search the reservoir area? Did authorities find evidence of someone (including Joe) looking for information about it electronically? Was there a ping?

It's only because of these unanswered questions I have that I'm still considering the possibility of CG and CF being involved. 2) and 3) above, especially, do not make much sense to me (but then maybe it's just me missing something ... if so, please let me know ).

I would most certainly feel hurt and probably even angry if I were CG's, CF's -or even Joe's, perhaps- mom and saw total strangers writing about my own son the types of things I have been writing here online. Maybe I really should stop. But then I think about Joe, his mom and his dad. What you said about his dad retracing Joe's path 30 days after he was last seen. The way he described his son and the absolute nightmare of not knowing where your child is during a radio interview with his voice cracking more than once. Joe and/or his family are the ones who are hurting the most, and if all that I am doing by sharing my thoughts -just in case someone in LE is here looking in search of a fresh perspective- is adding to their pain, then I really should stop posting.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Cautiously hopeful that some sort of new information (whether newly discovered or newly disclosed to the public) will come out of this:

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2015/9/8/307780/Sheriff-Watson-Meeting-With-Parents.aspx

 

[GigTu]

Cautiously hopeful that some sort of new information (whether newly discovered or newly disclosed to the public) will come out of this:

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2015/9/8/307780/Sheriff-Watson-Meeting-With-Parents.aspx

Me too. Thank you for the link.

 

[GigTu]

I certainly do not consider this to be a MSM source, and thus normally would not link, but another poster already shared the link upthread (#387), and that post was not deleted, so I'm taking the liberty of sharing it once again:

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228890#/forumsite/21086/topics/228890

Personally, I do believe that the post was left by Joe's brother, and the information legitimate. Technically (as per WS TOS), it's to be considered rumor.

If you view the past postings of that person, you will see references as far back as 2008 that discuss being from Africa, and the aunt in CO. For example: http://www.ttora.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1440177&postcount=13
I'm inclined to believe this is in fact Joe's older brother who made the post in your link.

I feel so bad for this family.

 

[Scout12]

Joe, his family, friends and their families are in my thoughts every day. In fact, I must admit I have become somewhat obsessed with this case, and have been spending way too much time trying to figure out what the heck happened here, and whether there is anything I can do to help bring Joe home.

There are numerous theories as to what may have happened to Joe, and, in my opinion, they are all viable (to varying degrees). Just like the majority of missing persons' cases, I feel that anything is possible. So what I have been trying to do is to look at whatever information is available, while remaining objective, and to identify most likely scenarios. I sincerely hope that neither of Joe's buddies had anything to do with his disappearance; after all, the three of them appear to have been very close, and it simply would be absolutely horrific if he/they did. I just would like to know:

1) When, where and by whom -other than CG and CF- was Joe last seen? In particulat, did anyone see Joe after he and his friends went trapshooting?

2) Why did LE not show at the ranch until after midnight, at which time Joe would have been missing for at least seven hours? Were they called to the property hours before, but couldn't make it there until then (for whatever reason)? Did CG and CF alert someone -e.g., ranch staff, family member and/or friend via phone/text, etc.- much earlier, but were advised not to contact authorities at first, and if so, why?

3) What prompted LE to search the reservoir area? Did authorities find evidence of someone (including Joe) looking for information about it electronically? Was there a ping?

It's only because of these unanswered questions I have that I'm still considering the possibility of CG and CF being involved. 2) and 3) above, especially, do not make much sense to me (but then maybe it's just me missing something ... if so, please let me know ).

I would most certainly feel hurt and probably even angry if I were CG's, CF's -or even Joe's, perhaps- mom and saw total strangers writing about my own son the types of things I have been writing here online. Maybe I really should stop. But then I think about Joe, his mom and his dad. What you said about his dad retracing Joe's path 30 days after he was last seen. The way he described his son and the absolute nightmare of not knowing where your child is during a radio interview with his voice cracking more than once. Joe and/or his family are the ones who are hurting the most, and if all that I am doing by sharing my thoughts -just in case someone in LE is here looking in search of a fresh perspective- is adding to their pain, then I really should stop posting.

Oh, please don't feel bad - I didn't mean for you, or anyone to, after my post. I know how concerned you are - and I, too, am obsessed with this case. I think it's human nature to bring into these discussions our personal feelings. For instance, I see my son when I look at Joe, and I see my son's beloved, loyal friends when I think about Joe's friends. I''m basically assuming, and to be honest, I don't sense I am wrong, that Joe and his friends have those same wonderful attributes I find in my child and his buddies.

My son has also taken cross-country trips with his friends as well. So I feel protective of Joe and his family and friends in a way that perhaps I should not, and I apologize if my comments hinder open conversation.

 

[Scout12]

Treelights - I liked what you said about how you would have been concerned immediately when Joe didn't show up, and I am a lot like you described. I have a tendency to go into the the worst case scenario type of thinking when someone doesn't show up when they said they would or is late, etc. The world needs more people like us :loveyou:...

But that being said, these are teenage boys - their minds don't work like ours, or a mother's heart. I have to imagine that there is a reason they weren't immediately concerned, as in, perhaps Joe was known to often be late, or to sometimes go off and do his own thing when exploring? I'm right there with you - I would have been alarmed much earlier than they were, and it does give rise to speculations, but I do think their age and the normal tendency of boys not to worry too much is a factor.

All My Opinion

 

[Caramel]

Cautiously hopeful that some sort of new information (whether newly discovered or newly disclosed to the public) will come out of this:

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2015/9/8/307780/Sheriff-Watson-Meeting-With-Parents.aspx

Well that (in my opinion...caveat...caveat) is weird. The sheriff of where it didn't happen, with no jurisdiction at all, is updating the family. I am curious, but suspicious of grandstanding.

 

[CookieM]

Well that (in my opinion...caveat...caveat) is weird. The sheriff of where it didn't happen, with no jurisdiction at all, is updating the family. I am curious, but suspicious of grandstanding.

Maybe it is because the sheriff had sent the detectives and the update has to do with what they did or did not find.

"Sheriff Watson also dispatched two veteran BCSO investigators to the area, where they spent close to a week collecting intelligence and developing possible leads, which they turned over to Conejos County Colorado Sheriff’s officers. "

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2015/9/8/307780/Sheriff-Watson-Meeting-With-Parents.aspx