Found Deceased CO - Joseph Keller, 18, Antonito, 23 July 2015 - #1

[Scout12]

Thanks for sharing, Scout12. This is exactly how I had imagined Joe to be based on how he has been described by friends. And then there is the look on his parents' faces ... .

On another note, I appreciate that this article mentions the number for CrimeStoppers (with a CO area code): I have noticed that this information is missing from the newer posters that have been posted on the FJK FB page as well as its most recent cover photo. Instead, the newer posters ask for tips to be called in either to a toll-free number or a number with a TN area code (I've done some "online sleuthing," and it apparently belongs to a company by the name of "N. A. Keller Construction").

I wanted to familiarize myself with how CrimeStoppers works and did some research online, and while it appears that the programs is run by individual jurisdictions (and it doesn't appear that Conejos county has a website or FB page dedicated to its CrimeStoppers program), one common theme seems to be that the person providing information "remain(s) anonymous no matter what."

Plenty of cases in the past have shown (e.g., Lauren Spierer case: In Lauren's case, her parents even set up a PO Box in the town she disappeared from, hoping that someone would send an anonymous letter with a tip ... to avail at least so far ...; my first thought, when I heard about this was "but LE could possibly extract the sender's DNA from the back of the stamp, envelope, letter itself, etc. ... I'm such an ID addict!) that many people, sadly, will not give up information no matter what. Still, there may be someone out there, who knows something, to whom the anonymous aspect of CrimeStoppers is particularly appealing. There may also be someone who only heard or saw something (and did not engage in any sort of criminal activity) but is hesitant to contact LE because s/he doesn't want to get involved, period, who may feel comfortable calling CrimeStoppers.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I would still advertise the CrimeStoppers contact number (with a clear description of how the program works) alongside the other two numbers. The information may not necessarily help produce an arrest or criminal charges, but it may at least help locate Joe ....

All of this, of course, is assuming that there was some sort of foul play involved (which I have felt from the very beginning that there was ...), and if I could have answers to the few questions that I have, I would feel either more strongly or less strongly about it. As others have suggested, I realize it is also possible that he may have had an accident or fell ill and has not been found as a result.

All IMHO only.

Yes, this article also confirmed my suspicions about what a nice guy he is ...

 

[Scout12]

No I don't think camping at all. But maybe continuing on to another location or a different place to stay. I have not read here in a while but I remember no one else really k ew where they were staying.
I still believe he left on his own other wise he would have been found . I do not believe he was kidnapped or abducted.

Still not clear on what you are suspecting about where they were staying. There was never any question that they were staying at the ranch, as far as I know. I don't agree that he left voluntarily - especially the day before his birthday.

 

[bakerlady]

I find it VERY peculiar that the phone number on the missing poster is to what seems to be a family business number and not LE.

Don't they usually list the name of the local police or FBI or at least some other type of advocacy group on a flier?

 

[bakerlady]

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...plead-social-medihelp-find-vanished-s/324544/

And the FBI is not involved. Their policy is that they are not involved in a case unless the local sheriff formally requests assistance. Sheriff Galvez has not asked yet. :thinking:

How can this be? Someone from out of town vanishes without a trace in your small town and you are too proud to ask for help? There has to be a certain line of ineptness that has been crossed where someone higher up needs to step in and put Galvez in his place.

And then there's this

But no list of tourists renting rooms at the Rainbow Trout Ranch (where Joe was visiting), fishing or hunting lodges in the area July 23 was ever compiled. This frustrates the Kellers because of one of those visitors may have a clue to Joe's whereabouts.

It's one thing that the inept local LE never requested a list of guests but its even more suspicious that the AUNT who is a FAMILY member didn't volunteer the information!

Not only that, they didn't even post anything on the ranch FB page other than a proclamation about how it's such a wonderful summer?! That is abhorrent.

It would be understandable if this was some side of the road motel where people pay cash and leave the next day but the Rainbow Trout Ranch is very EXPENSIVE and has tons of activities that are somewhat dangerous.

Do they really allow people to stay and climb mountains, ride horses, shoot guns, etc., without at least singing some type of waiver?

How in heaven's name does one run a business like that? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

Were all guests on the ranch at all times? If CG and Joe went for a jog who is to say that some other campers didn't also go for a hike or a run? Who knows who went exploring, or following...?

 

[Treelights]

I think one of the issues could be when the facebook page administrator for Joe's missing facebook page said for people to call the sheriff's office for updates.

https://www.facebook.com/FindJoeKeller/posts/929638157100014

It wasn't even about calling if there is any information to give to LE, it was about updates.

Why on earth would the facebook page ask people to flood the Conejos County sheriff's office with calls about updates?
That would make it difficult for someone to get through about something else that was an emergency, or even if a person had info about Joe, how could they get through if the lines were busy?

So, to me, making that statement to their 9 thousand plus followers was a mistake back on August 15th.

IMOO.

 

[cmarieclark]

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...plead-social-medihelp-find-vanished-s/324544/

And the FBI is not involved. Their policy is that they are not involved in a case unless the local sheriff formally requests assistance. Sheriff Galvez has not asked yet. :thinking:

How can this be? Someone from out of town vanishes without a trace in your small town and you are too proud to ask for help? There has to be a certain line of ineptness that has been crossed where someone higher up needs to step in and put Galvez in his place.

And then there's this




It's one thing that the inept local LE never requested a list of guests but its even more suspicious that the AUNT who is a FAMILY member didn't volunteer the information!

Not only that, they didn't even post anything on the ranch FB page other than a proclamation about how it's such a wonderful summer?! That is abhorrent.

It would be understandable if this was some side of the road motel where people pay cash and leave the next day but the Rainbow Trout Ranch is very EXPENSIVE and has tons of activities that are somewhat dangerous.

Do they really allow people to stay and climb mountains, ride horses, shoot guns, etc., without at least singing some type of waiver?

How in heaven's name does one run a business like that? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

Were all guests on the ranch at all times? If CG and Joe went for a jog who is to say that some other campers didn't also go for a hike or a run? Who knows who went exploring, or following...?

In the Colorado mountains one could become lost very easily and very quickly. I am sure others were hiking and venturing around as well. The issue is if he somehow got off trail you're basically looking for a needle in a haystack. You also have to consider wildlife, lakes, streams, rocks, caverns and cliff's.

It is not unusual for the FBI not to be asked to assist in a missing person case, what is odd is that he went for a jog, with a friend and became separated at some point? If anyone gets a chance to go to the park and watch two or more people start off in a jog together. They jog together the entire time usually, side by side. Even in mountains on a trail, or off trail. They don't just separate.

 

[Caramel]

I think one of the issues could be when the facebook page administrator for Joe's missing facebook page said for people to call the sheriff's office for updates.

https://www.facebook.com/FindJoeKeller/posts/929638157100014

It wasn't even about calling if there is any information to give to LE, it was about updates.

Why on earth would the facebook page ask people to flood the Conejos County sheriff's office with calls about updates?
That would make it difficult for someone to get through about something else that was an emergency, or even if a person had info about Joe, how could they get through if the lines were busy?

So, to me, making that statement to their 9 thousand plus followers was a mistake back on August 15th.

IMOO.

This! This, very much in my opinion, is the most tellingly "off" thing in this whole story. It doesn't tell me what happened to Joe Keller, but it tells me that the family has publicly declared the local sheriff (with authority over the investigation of Joe's disappearance) an enemy. This seems (to me) monumentally counterproductive, even if they weren't delighted with the "service" they were receiving or if they weren't hearing what they wanted to hear. I'm sure some of you will think "well, they must have their reasons," but what if they don't have good reasons?

There are fewer than ten people, including support staff, in the Conejos County Sheriff's Office and the FB page asked 9000 people to call and demand answers, and now the same FB page is complaining that calls about Joe are not being taken seriously.

 

[Treelights]

This! This, very much in my opinion, is the most tellingly "off" thing in this whole story. It doesn't tell me what happened to Joe Keller, but it tells me that the family has publicly declared the local sheriff (with authority over the investigation of Joe's disappearance) an enemy. This seems (to me) monumentally counterproductive, even if they weren't delighted with the "service" they were receiving or if they weren't hearing what they wanted to hear. I'm sure some of you will think "well, they must have their reasons," but what if they don't have good reasons?

There are fewer than ten people, including support staff, in the Conejos County Sheriff's Office and the FB page asked 9000 people to call and demand answers, and now the same FB page is complaining that calls about Joe are not being taken seriously.

Yes, Absolutely!
Good Post!
IMOO.

 

[Treelights]

I wonder, did Joe talk to anybody on his travels, that he (Joe) would be at the ranch?

They (Joe and friends) arrived that morning, and that afternoon after 4:30pm, Joe went missing.

Is it possible that he talked to someone not that far away, (maybe someone he just met)
and that person drove to see Joe? Or maybe they were far away, and Joe met this person in another state on his travels,
and Joe told that person he would arrive at the ranch the day before his birthday?

Just thinking of ideas, if Joe was picked up in a vehicle.

I still think the most probable answer is he is somewhere near. Maybe he fell?

Otherwise, I still think, if he was taken, it was by someone he knew, whether he knew them well or not.

I don't think he was kidnapped by a stranger.

If he went willingly in the vehicle, something could have happened after that.

IMOO.

 

[marble]

If anyone gets a chance to go to the park and watch two or more people start off in a jog together. They jog together the entire time usually, side by side. Even in mountains on a trail, or off trail. They don't just separate.

Better yet, instead ask anyone who has trained with/coached/run competitively with other runners and teammates: THIS IS NOT AT ALL UNUSUAL and is more the norm than not when two runners have such different race results, meaning different paces they are comfortable at.

I explained this a few times already but for some reason most of the people in this thread seem to not believe someone with years of experience with this very thing but *shrug*. Y'all win, I give up. There's no need to consider expert opinion on this from like, actual runners.

edited to add: no wonder juries get verdicts wrong so often

 

[Caramel]

^ Agreed. In my opinion, the only possibly imprudent thing (of the known facts) Joe did was to get right to running within hours of arriving at altitude. And, likewise in my opinion, the only mysterious thing (of the known facts) he did was to disappear.

 

[Treelights]

Better yet, instead ask anyone who has trained with/coached/run competitively with other runners and teammates: THIS IS NOT AT ALL UNUSUAL and is more the norm than not when two runners have such different race results, meaning different paces they are comfortable at.

I explained this a few times already but for some reason most of the people in this thread seem to not believe someone with years of experience with this very thing but *shrug*. Y'all win, I give up. There's no need to consider expert opinion on this from like, actual runners.

edited to add: no wonder juries get verdicts wrong so often

Why would you say that most people on this thread seem not to believe someone with years of experience?

For myself, there are many reasons why I hit "Thank You" on a post.
That doesn't mean that I don't believe you.

I live in Colorado, and I do see people running together A LOT.
But that doesn't mean that I don't believe that runners will run separately.
I feel for safety's sake that people running in the mountains should run together.
Something could happen.
And something DID happen.

Also, perhaps others have not read your posts about why people run separately.

IMOO.

 

[Eileen730]

Better yet, instead ask anyone who has trained with/coached/run competitively with other runners and teammates: THIS IS NOT AT ALL UNUSUAL and is more the norm than not when two runners have such different race results, meaning different paces they are comfortable at.

I explained this a few times already but for some reason most of the people in this thread seem to not believe someone with years of experience with this very thing but *shrug*. Y'all win, I give up. There's no need to consider expert opinion on this from like, actual runners.

edited to add: no wonder juries get verdicts wrong so often

But this wasn't a race!
Your in a strange place.
Out for a run.
I find it odd

But...I also think this was all pre arranged and Joe was the one that wanted t split up.
so he could leave.
JMO

 

[Caramel]

I live in Colorado, not quite as up-in-the-mountains as the ranch, but seriously foresty and more people run alone than accompanied on the trails near my house. Running tends to be a solitary pursuit.

 

[bakerlady]

In the Colorado mountains one could become lost very easily and very quickly. I am sure others were hiking and venturing around as well. The issue is if he somehow got off trail you're basically looking for a needle in a haystack. You also have to consider wildlife, lakes, streams, rocks, caverns and cliff's.

It is not unusual for the FBI not to be asked to assist in a missing person case, what is odd is that he went for a jog, with a friend and became separated at some point? If anyone gets a chance to go to the park and watch two or more people start off in a jog together. They jog together the entire time usually, side by side. Even in mountains on a trail, or off trail. They don't just separate.

I have seen so many photos of that exact area and I came to the conclusion that it is very much 'open' terrain. So in essence that makes it much much harder to get lost. The vegetation is not dense. Compared to rural areas where I live, with brambles, and prickers and bushes and greenery climbing and clustering all around this seems like an ideal place to find someone.

 

[Treelights]

I have seen so many photos of that exact area and I came to the conclusion that it is very much 'open' terrain. So in essence that makes it much much harder to get lost. The vegetation is not dense. Compared to rural areas where I live, with brambles, and prickers and bushes and greenery climbing and clustering all around this seems like an ideal place to find someone.

Looking at these photos from the Rainbow Trout Ranch website, I can clearly see that it is not all open terrain.
The second to the last photo that shows the wrangler overlooking the back country... that is a dense forest to me.
I don't see how it would be ideal to find someone if Joe got off the road and entered the forest.

http://rainbowtroutranch.com/colorado-dude-ranch-photos-2/

I have been to Platoro which is near Horca. Lots of mountains and trees. Gorgeous area.

IMOO.

 

[Caramel]

Some good photos of fairly nearby terrain:
http://www.ouachitamaps.com/SSJ Conejos.html

 

[Treelights]

Bumping For Joe!
Where are you Joe?

 

[Lady Demelza]

Bump for Joe, I hate to see this lovely young man way back on page 3.

 

[bakerlady]

I think the policy about the FBI really stinks. The family should write to the Colorado state representatives. This is ludicrous.