Found Deceased CO - Joseph Keller, 18, Antonito, 23 July 2015 - #1

[gmomof03]

Treelights - I liked what you said about how you would have been concerned immediately when Joe didn't show up, and I am a lot like you described. I have a tendency to go into the the worst case scenario type of thinking when someone doesn't show up when they said they would or is late, etc. The world needs more people like us :loveyou:...

But that being said, these are teenage boys - their minds don't work like ours, or a mother's heart. I have to imagine that there is a reason they weren't immediately concerned, as in, perhaps Joe was known to often be late, or to sometimes go off and do his own thing when exploring? I'm right there with you - I would have been alarmed much earlier than they were, and it does give rise to speculations, but I do think their age and the normal tendency of boys not to worry too much is a factor.

All My Opinion

That is what I have been saying to myself from day 1 "they are teenage boys". I wonder about something I have not seen any mention of why didn't they have their cell phones with them? I run every evening and I ALWAYS have my cell with me for emergee ncy reasons. Perhaps there is poor reception so their thoughts were why take my cell but there has to be somewhere in all of that wide open land or maybe on a hilltop that reception was possible because the other side to that is the nightmare they are all living now. This is a pricey resort so my thinking is there are going to be business people who need contact with the outside world staying there if only to check in with the office daily so I am sure there must be a cell tower within a short distance. JMO

 

[gmomof03]

Better yet, instead ask anyone who has trained with/coached/run competitively with other runners and teammates: THIS IS NOT AT ALL UNUSUAL and is more the norm than not when two runners have such different race results, meaning different paces they are comfortable at.

I explained this a few times already but for some reason most of the people in this thread seem to not believe someone with years of experience with this very thing but *shrug*. Y'all win, I give up. There's no need to consider expert opinion on this from like, actual runners.

edited to add: no wonder juries get verdicts wrong so often

I have been an avid runner for years and I absolutely agree marble.

 

[Treelights]

I have been an avid runner for years and I absolutely agree marble.

Funny, this morning I thought about the Joe Keller case when I saw Two Runners RUNNING TOGETHER.
I guess the runners that I saw run the same pace.
It happens a lot that I see runners together.
I also see solitary runners.
IMOO.

 

[Treelights]

That is what I have been saying to myself from day 1 "they are teenage boys". I wonder about something I have not seen any mention of why didn't they have their cell phones with them? I run every evening and I ALWAYS have my cell with me for emergee ncy reasons. Perhaps there is poor reception so their thoughts were why take my cell but there has to be somewhere in all of that wide open land or maybe on a hilltop that reception was possible because the other side to that is the nightmare they are all living now. This is a pricey resort so my thinking is there are going to be business people who need contact with the outside world staying there if only to check in with the office daily so I am sure there must be a cell tower within a short distance. JMO

There is No Cell Reception there.

 

[Treelights]

When we were in Platoro last year, we stopped at this place to eat:

http://goldpanrv.com/INFO.html

This link states that there is no cell phone service in the Conejos River Valley or Platoro.

The Rainbow Trout Ranch is in the Conejos River Valley.

The link also specifies that cell service will be lost shortly after leaving Antonito.

Remember that the Rainbow Trout Ranch is about 22 miles or so from Antonito, even though their address states
Antonito.

This link that I provided above, shows a small map of where Platoro, Horca, and Antonito are located.

The Rainbow Trout Ranch is near Horca, Colorado.

Directions on how to get to the Rainbow Trout Ranch:

http://rainbowtroutranch.com/colorado-dude-ranch-directions/

Bringing My Post Forward about lack of cell phone reception in the Conejos River Valley and higher up in Platoro.

IMOO.

 

[Treelights]

According to this page, it appears that if your service is through Verizon, then you get coverage at La Jara. For comparison purposes, I looked up Platoro Reservoir via the same page, and apparently, there is no reception. Or, the ping could have come from somewhere near La Jara, where reception is better regardless of carrier.

Bringing this post forward.
Great info about Cell Reception.
IMOO.

 

[Caramel]

I drive through Antonito fairly frequently and I lose T-Mobile service around Alamosa and don't pick it up reliably again until just north of Espanola, New Mexico.

Pretty much any "it must be the case that..." impression derived from expectations formed anywhere but the rural West is not applicable in the rural West.

 

[doublestop]

We were through there this summer and none of our cell phones work, which are with different companies. I agree that people who don't live in the rural west don't quite get just how remote it can be.

 

[savagewoman]

I would think he would listen to music with his phone at least while running.

 

[gmomof03]

I feel sad that no one is discussing this anymore. I guess it's just wait and see.

Come home Joe.....

Drove 1 1/2 hrs yesterday to spend time with my teenage grand kids. This case impacted my heart due to his age, I told the 3 of them about Joe's situation and my 15 yr old grand daughter had tears in her eyes as she said "G-mom you would never stop looking for us would you!" my response of course was "NEVER EVER". My heart goes out to his family and loved ones.

Come home Joe!

 

[Caramel]

I feel sad that no one is discussing this anymore. I guess it's just wait and see.

Come home Joe.....

Since last night, you mean?

 

[gmomof03]

Yes I guess I just hate when cases become silent. I'm weird I guess.

 

[Eileen730]

Joe has an accent correct?
where was he born and if hes from another country when did he and his family come here?

 

[1southernmama]

Haven't been on in a while, but these are the latest stories from the local (hometown) news outlets from Sept. 10th - I thought there were points of interest in the newspaper article.
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...en-joe-kellers-missing-perscase-stirs/324311/
http://www.wdef.com/news/story/Joe-...lorado-His-Family/lToZKWmH4ky5PTyfncLGUQ.cspx

 

[1southernmama]

I think his mom is from South Africa - this area has a very diverse population because of Lee University and several companies that have built here (WACKER and Volkswagen, etc.)

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

I would think he would listen to music with his phone at least while running.

"His cell phone was left in his bags in his vehicle."
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/30005122/parents-of-missing-cleveland-teen-speak

I, for one, have never been one to listen to music while running -even around my own neighborhood- as I've always been afraid that I wouldn't hear an approaching bike, car, etc., but I'm definitely in the minority amongst my runner/walker friends in that regard.

Ever since the above information was first made available, I've wondered if Joe's phone was really found "in his bags" in (CG's) vehicle, or rather if the reporter meant that his phone was found alongside (but not inside) his bags in the car. Though based on information from a non-MSM source (=rumor per WS TOS; as mentioned in posts #642 and #656, however, very, very likely, the source of information is Joe's older half-brother) it has been established that Joe, CG and CF arrived at the ranch at 8AM the day he disappeared. I have no problem with Joe's bags still being in the car later in the day (at least 5:30 PM and most likely a couple of hours after that since I don't believe anyone even thought to look for his phone until after it became apparent that there was something wrong) because he could have decided to wait until later to unload the car for a number of reasons (e.g., his/their cabin wasn't ready, he/they had volunteered to get his/their cabin ready him/themselves but not until after the run, and he/they didn't want to bring his/their bags inside the cabin until he/they had the room ready, etc.). But what makes less sense to me is that the phone was still in the bag at least nine hours after their arrival at the ranch. According to RTR's website, listed under "Other Amenities" is wireless internet.
http://www.coloradoranch.com/ranches/rainbow-trout-ranch

This may just be me, but whenever I travel, I usually try to use as little cellular data as possible, so one of the first things I do when I arrive at a location where I know wifi is available is to get my phone out. Again, there is a number of reasons as to why Joe's phone was found in his bags nine hours after his arrival at the ranch. Perhaps he and his friends didn't even make it to the lodge (as in they were on the ranch grounds but not the lodge where wifi is available), so he didn't bother to get his phone out. I see that Joe's last Instagram post is that of Alcatraz, close to twenty hours away from RTR (plus, quite possibly they made additional stops in between), so Joe may simply not be the type to spend that much time on the phone (as well, he could have had access to wifi relatively soon before arriving at the ranch at one of those possible stops made along the way, too). It is also possible that he did get his phone out at one point, but put it back in his bag later.

Again, most likely by far, Joe had some sort of accident, especially considering the high altitude at which he was running (and to which he wasn't used to), in which case, unfortunately, he wouldn't have survived long, or at all, depending on the circumstance (e.g., falling off a cliff).

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

That is what I have been saying to myself from day 1 "they are teenage boys".

-RSBM-

I agree with that to a degree. I work on a university campus with a 10,000-plus student body. Usually, -and this is so very sad-, every year we have a couple of drug overdose deaths, and a couple of more "kids" die because they got drunk at a party, tried to walk back to their dorm room alone, passed out, roommate didn't think anything of it for a couple of days (can't blame the roommate), and are later found dead somewhere nearby (e.g., virtually frozen to death in a lake located on campus), or fell out of a window after getting drunk, and the like. This is a school that is consistently ranked in the top 25 in the "National University" category by the USNAWR (but then intelligence and/or education do not necessarily translate to common sense), and the overwhelming majority of the students are really good, hardworking kids. What I don't understand about the delay in the arrival of LE in Joe's case are that:

1. He and his friends were in an extremely remote area with a rough terrain they were unfamiliar with.

2. He and CG had agreed upon a time at which they were to meet up (it wasn't as though Joe was to return "in a couple of hours" or "by dinner," etc.).

3. CG had gotten a headache and even vomited after the run. I, for one (caveat: I'm a parent who is in her 40's), would almost assume (or look at as the most likely reason for the delay in his return) that Joe was experiencing the same thing, but maybe to a more extremely degree that he wasn't capable of getting back to the ranch on his own.

I am reminded, however, that multiple individuals supposedly staying at the ranch when this happened stating (though via FB=rumor per WS TOS) that the local LE seemed rather casual about the situation (even the morning after an officer telling a guest that Joe probably just got turned around and will soon show up anyway), and this may explain the reason as to why they did not arrive at the ranch until after midnight. Plus, at least I haven't seen anywhere whether they continued to search overnight.

 

[gmomof03]

IN TOTAL AGREEMENT Inmyhumbleopinion! finally someone who gets what I have been saying, not that it matters I am entitled to MOO. Maybe I should have worded it "too young to understand life yet". Lets face it as adults we have earned the majority of our common sense from our own life experiences. Common sense isn't something that can be taught it is introduced to us as we face different milestones in life. Some get it and some never do. MOO MOO MOO

 

[1southernmama]

Not sure about the level of maturity among these young men, but speaking as the mom of an adventurous 17yo, my son & his buddies never go rock climbing or kayaking, etc w/o a plan and a specific time frame. And they would not wait hours before going to look for (and/or get more people involved) for someone who didn't arrive at a reasonable time.
I think information is being held back by local investigators since they initially rejected the help from Bradley County LE when it was offered. Just my opinion of course.

 

[CookieM]

"His cell phone was left in his bags in his vehicle."
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/30005122/parents-of-missing-cleveland-teen-speak

I, for one, have never been one to listen to music while running -even around my own neighborhood- as I've always been afraid that I wouldn't hear an approaching bike, car, etc., but I'm definitely in the minority amongst my runner/walker friends in that regard.

Ever since the above information was first made available, I've wondered if Joe's phone was really found "in his bags" in (CG's) vehicle, or rather if the reporter meant that his phone was found alongside (but not inside) his bags in the car. Though based on information from a non-MSM source (=rumor per WS TOS; as mentioned in posts #642 and #656, however, very, very likely, the source of information is Joe's older half-brother) it has been established that Joe, CG and CF arrived at the ranch at 8AM the day he disappeared. I have no problem with Joe's bags still being in the car later in the day (at least 5:30 PM and most likely a couple of hours after that since I don't believe anyone even thought to look for his phone until after it became apparent that there was something wrong) because he could have decided to wait until later to unload the car for a number of reasons (e.g., his/their cabin wasn't ready, he/they had volunteered to get his/their cabin ready him/themselves but not until after the run, and he/they didn't want to bring his/their bags inside the cabin until he/they had the room ready, etc.). But what makes less sense to me is that the phone was still in the bag at least nine hours after their arrival at the ranch. According to RTR's website, listed under "Other Amenities" is wireless internet.
http://www.coloradoranch.com/ranches/rainbow-trout-ranch

This may just be me, but whenever I travel, I usually try to use as little cellular data as possible, so one of the first things I do when I arrive at a location where I know wifi is available is to get my phone out. Again, there is a number of reasons as to why Joe's phone was found in his bags nine hours after his arrival at the ranch. Perhaps he and his friends didn't even make it to the lodge (as in they were on the ranch grounds but not the lodge where wifi is available), so he didn't bother to get his phone out. I see that Joe's last Instagram post is that of Alcatraz, close to twenty hours away from RTR (plus, quite possibly they made additional stops in between), so Joe may simply not be the type to spend that much time on the phone (as well, he could have had access to wifi relatively soon before arriving at the ranch at one of those possible stops made along the way, too). It is also possible that he did get his phone out at one point, but put it back in his bag later.

Again, most likely by far, Joe had some sort of accident, especially considering the high altitude at which he was running (and to which he wasn't used to), in which case, unfortunately, he wouldn't have survived long, or at all, depending on the circumstance (e.g., falling off a cliff).

I'm not a true "runner," so please if I'm way off base don't beat me to a pulp over this, but....

Do runners just run in whatever they are wearing? What I am wondering is that if he arrived at 8am and had been riding/driving for a while, then arrived, ate lunch, chopped wood, did some trap shooting, would he just go running in whatever he had on or would he change? In my limited running experience, I had "running shoes" and clothes specific to that activity. I'm probably overthinking this and he certainly could have pulled stuff out of his bags that were in the car and changed, but I just wish we would get more specifics on this. If his other friends also left the bags in the car, then no biggie. If he was the only one who left them, then yeah I think it is weird.

JMO