Found Deceased CO - Joseph Keller, 18, Antonito, 23 July 2015 - #1
- Thread starter Lulu14
- Start date
- Status
bluesneakers
not today satan
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2014
- Messages
- 19,144
- Reaction score
- 9,421
The same thing happened in my family too. My grandfather left (also during the great depression) and it wasn't until a few years ago I found out what happened to him. He moved to a different state, got married again, and died in the 1970s. I think it's more difficult to do that now though when everything is kept on a computer and we have so many different forms of ID.
Is Joe or are his parents immigrants? I think I read that somewhere. Going to another country would be a different story, I think, although there would probably be a record of him using his passport.
Eileen730
Former Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2010
- Messages
- 20,232
- Reaction score
- 313
Hi!
Off Topic:
It is sad when someone abandons the people in their life.
It is very sad when someone abandons the people in their life and you don't know
where they went or what happened to them until Years later!
Sorry to hear that your situation was similar to mine. Hugs to you and your family!
IMOO.
Many ppl abandon their life because they hate it.
They also abandon the ppl in their life because they don't like them.
PPl go missing for many reasons.
And not all have wonderful happy lives and feel its better to just leave.
They wont call home and wont call LE they just go!
We don't know what was going on in this young mans life.
We only have everyone elses word for it not his!
I think he is alive and had this planned. JMO
ZhaZhaHa
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2012
- Messages
- 1,939
- Reaction score
- 5,286
snipped by me
This is doubtful. I guarantee somebody lays claim to almost all of the land in the area. There may be hiking access to the ridge that is not privately owned, but generally most mountain space like this is fenced and owned.
KYPastTracker
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2015
- Messages
- 206
- Reaction score
- 4
Hi!
Off Topic:
It is sad when someone abandons the people in their life.
It is very sad when someone abandons the people in their life and you don't know
where they went or what happened to them until Years later!
Sorry to hear that your situation was similar to mine. Hugs to you and your family!
IMOO.
Thanks, Treelights. The same to you and yours!
ZhaZhaHa
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2012
- Messages
- 1,939
- Reaction score
- 5,286
FWIW, I know what you are talking about! It isn't like moms meeting up at the gym to run treadmills and chat. These guys are serious athletes. It sucks hanging back with a slower runner. I'm a runner and I completely understand what you are saying.
ZhaZhaHa
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2012
- Messages
- 1,939
- Reaction score
- 5,286
Wow, this is such a sad and strange case. I hope Joe is found one day.
While the thought of foul play is interesting (the bizarre lack of timeline and lack of route info, the wonder about what each person was busy doing at what moment, the delay in reporting to LE, and the search of a lake MILES away through very rough terrain when there are so many other lakes between the ranch and the one that was searched, and the so many things that come to mind that could involve foul play among the 3), I tend to believe that Joe was overcome with altitude sickness, fell, became injured or passed out, and is not far from where he fell.
We have a lot of people go missing in the mountains. People search and search and then SAR is called off. Eventually bodies are discovered the next season exactly where SAR efforts were done. We all tend to think that a SAR is easily done, but unless youve walked through a pine forest in CO, I dont think you could understand what it is like. Whenever were driving through the mountains I always wonder how many people are out there lost, waiting to be found (and my mind always worries that bodies have been dumped just out of my sight). It is thick with pine trees, undergrowth, some Aspens, rocks, and you cannot see through it for more than 5-10 yards. I would hate to try and search a pine forest because it simply cannot all be seen. If Joe decided to venture away from the path (disoriented or not), he easily could have headed towards the rock formation just north of the ranch and then found himself not only gaining altitude, but in danger of falling or getting caught up somewhere.
I find it very telling when an outsider insists that because a person could perform in THEIR mountains back home, then they would be fine in OUR mountains. This is why so many people become ill so quickly in Colorado. It happened to my husband when he arrived in CO. He and his friends took their Jeeps up to the Continental Divide on their first weekend looking for rock climbing, 4-wheeling, and camping after only being in Colorado for 48 hours! 6,800 feet is NOT 9,000 feet. Shoot, I even worry about my own kids when we head up for a weekend away. At the first sign of sickness, we pack up and leave. Altitude is no joke. I dont think 17-18 year olds out on their own on a trip of a lifetime would have heeded these warnings. Teenage boys, for the most part, believe they are infallible.
We must remember one thing; Joe is a young guy. Yes he is super athletic and therefore more likely to survive elements and those things physical in nature, but from what I know, 19 year old guys are typically pretty sure of themselves. These guys were on their way back from a trip of a lifetime, probably one of their first alone and without an adult. Theyve come this far, they feel great about it, everything is awesome. They dont want to admit that they made bad decisions (hello, running in just shorts and no shirt at 4:30pm in the mountains?!). For me, being a CO native, I know that weather changes on a dime in the mountains. Once the sun dips behind the peak in the mountains it gets chilly right away, even in the summer. But I dont know if Joe would know that (I feel very strongly that if he did, he would have at least had a t-shirt on because 5:30pm is when the sun is starting to set and you would definitely be shaded a lot by trees). I feel this was simply a 19 year olds reasoning and not thinking ahead (like a 19 year old does). Perhaps Joes friends thought it wasnt a big deal, but surely the staff and Joes family at the ranch should have thought it was a big deal that he was missing 30+ minutes after he said he would return. These people know the conditions of the mountain. I think it would be safe at that point to assume he fell and became injured or he could have even encountered wildlife. I assume the ranch put out all of its employees to search, but after an hour or two, you call the police. I think at the latest they should have called around 7:30pm before it was too dark to see. I read in a FB comment somewhere that a woman camping heard and saw flashlights and people calling for Joe, she said they wondered the next morning if they had ever found him. They REALLY didnt think they could use LEO?! All they had were flashlights? Come on now. SAR units could have been deployed that same night.
Elk, lions, and bears are in the area and true it is a possibility he came across something. Maybe he saw something and then ran from it taking him into the woods, that could explain the lack of blood and drag marks, but youd think they would have found remains eventually (a dog was attacked by a lion in Northern CO last week and it left a gruesome mess. No way could Joe have been attacked without a trace of blood).
In regards to why the family didnt stay at the Ranch while in CO searching; I am sure that in a days notice over a weekend at the end of summer, the ranch was already booked with guests. How do you tell dozens of travelers that they cannot stay after theyve driven many hours to stay? That part makes sense to me. They just didnt have room.
It has been questioned whether Joe would stick out in this area around the Ranch? No. Not at all. Ive checked their rates and it is NOT cheap to stay there ($2,500 per person for a week yikes!). I vision upper-middle class to upper class families out on vacation. Joe wouldnt stick out THERE. Now in town, in Antonito, yes, he would stick out very much, but this is not where he was. I HATE thinking that some person driving through saw him and had a machismo moment, but I guess anything is possible.
This was stated by ceci upthread quite a bit (post # 528): Colorado Gang Unit says Kings De Monte Hispanic gang uses the area for dropping and hiding meth and heroin. Hwy 285 is a known drug route. While this may be, HWY 285 is WAY to the east of the ranch. He would have had to run quite a distance to get near there.
On the drugs in Colorado note I do believe a lot of people have the wrong impression about the legalization of marijuana in Colorado. It has not made our state suddenly a dangerous one. If Joe and his friends had wanted to find pot (and lets just face it, if they were the type to want pot, they probably found it before the left TN), they would have tried getting some in a more legal way than meeting drug lords on the side of the road.
So basically I think that Joe became too injured to return or maybe tripped and hit his head on a rock and simply has not been found. It makes the most amount of sense to me seeing that there have been many hikers and skiers never found in their SARs but then found later. My mind sometimes wanders back to foul play (could somebody Joe knew have driven up to him during his run and told him to get in and lets go see this cool thing I saw? Maybe ), but most likely he passed away due to exposure after injury.
Everything here is IMOO, of course
While the thought of foul play is interesting (the bizarre lack of timeline and lack of route info, the wonder about what each person was busy doing at what moment, the delay in reporting to LE, and the search of a lake MILES away through very rough terrain when there are so many other lakes between the ranch and the one that was searched, and the so many things that come to mind that could involve foul play among the 3), I tend to believe that Joe was overcome with altitude sickness, fell, became injured or passed out, and is not far from where he fell.
We have a lot of people go missing in the mountains. People search and search and then SAR is called off. Eventually bodies are discovered the next season exactly where SAR efforts were done. We all tend to think that a SAR is easily done, but unless youve walked through a pine forest in CO, I dont think you could understand what it is like. Whenever were driving through the mountains I always wonder how many people are out there lost, waiting to be found (and my mind always worries that bodies have been dumped just out of my sight). It is thick with pine trees, undergrowth, some Aspens, rocks, and you cannot see through it for more than 5-10 yards. I would hate to try and search a pine forest because it simply cannot all be seen. If Joe decided to venture away from the path (disoriented or not), he easily could have headed towards the rock formation just north of the ranch and then found himself not only gaining altitude, but in danger of falling or getting caught up somewhere.
I find it very telling when an outsider insists that because a person could perform in THEIR mountains back home, then they would be fine in OUR mountains. This is why so many people become ill so quickly in Colorado. It happened to my husband when he arrived in CO. He and his friends took their Jeeps up to the Continental Divide on their first weekend looking for rock climbing, 4-wheeling, and camping after only being in Colorado for 48 hours! 6,800 feet is NOT 9,000 feet. Shoot, I even worry about my own kids when we head up for a weekend away. At the first sign of sickness, we pack up and leave. Altitude is no joke. I dont think 17-18 year olds out on their own on a trip of a lifetime would have heeded these warnings. Teenage boys, for the most part, believe they are infallible.
We must remember one thing; Joe is a young guy. Yes he is super athletic and therefore more likely to survive elements and those things physical in nature, but from what I know, 19 year old guys are typically pretty sure of themselves. These guys were on their way back from a trip of a lifetime, probably one of their first alone and without an adult. Theyve come this far, they feel great about it, everything is awesome. They dont want to admit that they made bad decisions (hello, running in just shorts and no shirt at 4:30pm in the mountains?!). For me, being a CO native, I know that weather changes on a dime in the mountains. Once the sun dips behind the peak in the mountains it gets chilly right away, even in the summer. But I dont know if Joe would know that (I feel very strongly that if he did, he would have at least had a t-shirt on because 5:30pm is when the sun is starting to set and you would definitely be shaded a lot by trees). I feel this was simply a 19 year olds reasoning and not thinking ahead (like a 19 year old does). Perhaps Joes friends thought it wasnt a big deal, but surely the staff and Joes family at the ranch should have thought it was a big deal that he was missing 30+ minutes after he said he would return. These people know the conditions of the mountain. I think it would be safe at that point to assume he fell and became injured or he could have even encountered wildlife. I assume the ranch put out all of its employees to search, but after an hour or two, you call the police. I think at the latest they should have called around 7:30pm before it was too dark to see. I read in a FB comment somewhere that a woman camping heard and saw flashlights and people calling for Joe, she said they wondered the next morning if they had ever found him. They REALLY didnt think they could use LEO?! All they had were flashlights? Come on now. SAR units could have been deployed that same night.
Elk, lions, and bears are in the area and true it is a possibility he came across something. Maybe he saw something and then ran from it taking him into the woods, that could explain the lack of blood and drag marks, but youd think they would have found remains eventually (a dog was attacked by a lion in Northern CO last week and it left a gruesome mess. No way could Joe have been attacked without a trace of blood).
In regards to why the family didnt stay at the Ranch while in CO searching; I am sure that in a days notice over a weekend at the end of summer, the ranch was already booked with guests. How do you tell dozens of travelers that they cannot stay after theyve driven many hours to stay? That part makes sense to me. They just didnt have room.
It has been questioned whether Joe would stick out in this area around the Ranch? No. Not at all. Ive checked their rates and it is NOT cheap to stay there ($2,500 per person for a week yikes!). I vision upper-middle class to upper class families out on vacation. Joe wouldnt stick out THERE. Now in town, in Antonito, yes, he would stick out very much, but this is not where he was. I HATE thinking that some person driving through saw him and had a machismo moment, but I guess anything is possible.
This was stated by ceci upthread quite a bit (post # 528): Colorado Gang Unit says Kings De Monte Hispanic gang uses the area for dropping and hiding meth and heroin. Hwy 285 is a known drug route. While this may be, HWY 285 is WAY to the east of the ranch. He would have had to run quite a distance to get near there.
On the drugs in Colorado note I do believe a lot of people have the wrong impression about the legalization of marijuana in Colorado. It has not made our state suddenly a dangerous one. If Joe and his friends had wanted to find pot (and lets just face it, if they were the type to want pot, they probably found it before the left TN), they would have tried getting some in a more legal way than meeting drug lords on the side of the road.
So basically I think that Joe became too injured to return or maybe tripped and hit his head on a rock and simply has not been found. It makes the most amount of sense to me seeing that there have been many hikers and skiers never found in their SARs but then found later. My mind sometimes wanders back to foul play (could somebody Joe knew have driven up to him during his run and told him to get in and lets go see this cool thing I saw? Maybe ), but most likely he passed away due to exposure after injury.
Everything here is IMOO, of course
KYPastTracker
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2015
- Messages
- 206
- Reaction score
- 4
https://sites.google.com/site/5kforjoe/details
Hope this is an okay link.
5K (Race) FOR JOE
Date: Saturday November 14, 2015
Time: 8:00AM Sign in & Registration, 9:00AM Race Start
Where: Cleveland Greenway
PreRegistration Cost: $25 (until Nov. 6)
Day of Race Cost: $30
1 Mile Fun Run/Walk Cost: $15
Hope this is an okay link.
5K (Race) FOR JOE
Date: Saturday November 14, 2015
Time: 8:00AM Sign in & Registration, 9:00AM Race Start
Where: Cleveland Greenway
PreRegistration Cost: $25 (until Nov. 6)
Day of Race Cost: $30
1 Mile Fun Run/Walk Cost: $15
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2013
- Messages
- 9,367
- Reaction score
- 1,632
Agreed. I have two instances from my youth that I look back on now and thank my luck that I did not disappear. Both involved long distance running.
When I was 13, I went to a church youth camp in the mountains (Lake Almanor) and we all ran down to the river to swim, then back to camp. Well, I was faster so ran ahead. I missed my turn and ended up about 5 miles past the camp site road entrance. I realized I had run a lot 'longer' than it took me to get to the river, but I thought it was because it was uphill. After awhile, I realized I needed to go back so I decided to go back down to the river and restart my return in hopes I would recall a landmark or something. I stayed on the road luckily, and found the small side road that lead to camp while on my way back towards the river. I arrived at camp at dusk. No one even knew I was missing.
When I was 16 I went with other high school students to "running camp" in So. Lake Tahoe. We ran a trail from point A to point B, which was about 9 miles long. The trail was skinny but well traveled. If you stayed on the trail you would not get lost. However, I had to poop. I was faster - so ahead of everyone - so I went pretty far off the trail to take care of my business. I decided to go uphill and hide behind a log, thinking they couldn't see me over the log if it was above them. Like I said, I went pretty far. When I was done, I headed back downhill to the trail, but I went right past it (somehow). I ended up very lost. I turned and went back 'uphill' but in my hike I got disoriented and went in the wrong direction. There was no trail. I wandered for a long while. My good fortune was that I happened to hear voices and headed towards them, and came upon a remote camp site that had a young couple staying there. They were shocked to see me come from the direction I did. I remember thinking the girl was very pretty, so I trusted them to drive me to the main road to some small store, which was several miles out from their camp site. I think we drove 20 minutes or so on a dirt road, then 10 minutes on a small, roughly paved road. I found my way back to camp rather quickly from there though because we had run to the store the day before. The good news is that the entire team knew I should have been back and the coach had already called police. About 30 minutes later the deputy still showed up to lay eyes on me I guess, but everyone did all the right things (except me).
My whole point is, when you leave a trail it is not always obvious how to get back to it, or even recognize it if you're new to it. Even small paved roads. If Joe left his trail to explore or go poop, most likely he got lost. If he also had altitude sickness or a fall, he may never be found. As grim as it sounds, I hope that is what happened. It hurts my heart to think he was harmed by another human, or left his family deliberately.
Lngwaltney
New Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2015
- Messages
- 1
- Reaction score
- 0
No, they were not used to running at this altitude.
Timekeeper65
Kindness counts…
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2014
- Messages
- 1,797
- Reaction score
- 5,940
Welcome to Websleuths Lngwaltney.
Do you have any thoughts regarding what has happened to JK?
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2013
- Messages
- 5,357
- Reaction score
- 32,895
Find Joe Keller FB Page just posted volunteers from TN and CO will be conducting a search this weekend! Wish I were nearby ....
ZhaZhaHa
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2012
- Messages
- 1,939
- Reaction score
- 5,286
We had snow on Friday and Saturday up north in CO. I wonder how this went? I notice this comment: "Find Joe Keller: We'll post an update when Neal gets home." I wonder if they have anything to report?
Timekeeper65
Kindness counts…
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2014
- Messages
- 1,797
- Reaction score
- 5,940
Just checked the Find Joe Keller page - no updates and no news.
I noticed that the above quote is no longer appearing on the FJK Facebook page and all of the comments pertaining to the most recent search had also been removed/disabled. I'm not sure what, if anything, this means.
Keeping Joe and his family in my thoughts and prayers.
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2013
- Messages
- 5,357
- Reaction score
- 32,895
Maybe deleted at one point and then reposted ... because I am seeing it again, along with another comment by the page admin stating that it doesn't mean anything bad, but rather it's just easier to communicate (with Joe's dad) when he is home.
Considering the timing, and also since they indicated that the search was going to be conducted by volunteers from TN, as well as CO, I thought perhaps Joe's immediate family had decided to spend Thanksgiving with his extended family in CO (i.e., his aunt/mom's sister and her family), in which case his dad would not be home until at least after Thursday, but who knows ... especially as I have seen some comments on the FB page (=considered rumor) claiming that his dad has not been very happy with the aunt for various reasons, from not contacting LE sooner when Joe first disappeared, to sharing with her friends certain information pertaining to Joe that he felt should have been kept private.
Regardless, I continue to pray for Joe and his family daily.
In all likelihood, Joe either fell or otherwise became injured, and, despite the searchers' best efforts, is still out there somewhere. However, I also feel strongly that there are some valid -and relevant- questions that have remained unanswered (at least to the public), and it is for this reason -and for this reason only- that foul play remains a possibility in my opinion. If the latter happens to be true, I pray that the individual(s) with information as to Joe's location comes forward as soon as possible. Not knowing has got to be the worst thing ever.
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2013
- Messages
- 5,357
- Reaction score
- 32,895
An update has been posted on the Find Joe Keller FB page. It goes into details as to where the search took place and the terrain of the location, both of which I appreciated very much. It goes on to say that because nothing has been found despite all the search efforts, they hope that LE will take the possibility of criminal activity being a factor in Joe's disappearance more seriously.
While I have hoped for the same since early on, my thought process is not necessarily "nothing found = foul play." I think that most of us on here have heard of numerous missing persons cases, especially those with circumstances similar to Joe's, in which year after year, search after search yields absolutely nothing, only for remains to be found by some poor hiker one day, often in an area that has been searched more than once (such as that of Jack McAtee, whose "skull was three and a half miles, as the crow flies, from" where he was last seen, about a year after he disappeared). I just believe that (and my apologies for repeating myself over and again
lease
there are certain elements of this case that necessitate such investigation. I also believe it is entirely possible that LE have already been looking into such possibility, but are just not sharing information, not even with family members, which would be excruciatingly frustrating for them ....
I also feel it is possible that Joe's disappearance could be due to an accident other than a fall or something related to altitude sickness: That is, to say that perhaps he was accidentally pushed over a cliff, or maybe a gun accidentally went off and shot Joe, a person(s) knows what happened and/or where Joe is, but is simply too scared to come forward.
If anyone knows anything, please do the right thing. Please just let Joe's family know where he is. They miss him terribly.
While I have hoped for the same since early on, my thought process is not necessarily "nothing found = foul play." I think that most of us on here have heard of numerous missing persons cases, especially those with circumstances similar to Joe's, in which year after year, search after search yields absolutely nothing, only for remains to be found by some poor hiker one day, often in an area that has been searched more than once (such as that of Jack McAtee, whose "skull was three and a half miles, as the crow flies, from" where he was last seen, about a year after he disappeared). I just believe that (and my apologies for repeating myself over and again
lease there are certain elements of this case that necessitate such investigation. I also believe it is entirely possible that LE have already been looking into such possibility, but are just not sharing information, not even with family members, which would be excruciatingly frustrating for them ....I also feel it is possible that Joe's disappearance could be due to an accident other than a fall or something related to altitude sickness: That is, to say that perhaps he was accidentally pushed over a cliff, or maybe a gun accidentally went off and shot Joe, a person(s) knows what happened and/or where Joe is, but is simply too scared to come forward.
If anyone knows anything, please do the right thing. Please just let Joe's family know where he is. They miss him terribly.
- Status
Similar threads
Staff online
-
FraizeAdministrator
Online statistics
- Members online
- 130
- Guests online
- 2,494
- Total visitors
- 2,624