CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #11

[whoizzit]

The owner of that website has banned my country from accessing it.

Count your lucky stars imo! Yeeesh.

 

[sloane7777]

Naw, just brush your teefs and pile on!

You guys made me snort , spill and giggle AT work the entire day...so unprofessional

 

[Moonracer]

Didn't take own vehicle.
LE evidently did not find any Uber, Lyft, bus, etc. travel.
That ping in Gooding and the "taking week off" messages that are probably red herrings IMO.
The above makes no sense, to me.

Where are the Xmas tree farms? I hope LE will look in those areas.

 

[cody22]

Haha, when I see 22 after your name it gives this middle age woman pause.

Old football/baseball number.... I am old and harmless..... Ain't that right MassCrushGuy ?

 

[Lhughessk]

We will have to agree to disagree.

I emphatically do not believe that LE have answered affirmatively that the two are engaged.

Press conference... “they were not living together, but they were engaged?” “Correct.”

You can believe that LE lied, perhaps. But you cannot say that they have not answered affirmatively that the two are engaged. They have.

 

[ThaiBali]

Any Asian nationality.

It's definitely not Thai, Vietnamese, Cambodian. I live in Bangkok.

 

[nwmouse]

There is "zero indication" that anyone actually knows much of anything about the people involved in this case or the way they lived their lives. I don't know if the two were engaged or even in a relationship. I don't know who actually has primary custody of the child. I don't know where the mother actually lives. The list things that I, without a doubt, are factual is really, really long. It keeps getting longer everyday that passes.

I have a hard time believing that KB told her mother the details of her life and her relationship with PF. I feel like the information she has provided is based on the life KB wanted her to know about and the person KB allowed her to know. The way her mother speaks and her demeanor when talking about here daughter makes me feel that way.

And, why would anyone say, out loud, that there are "defenders" of PF?? That is just crazy to me? People, like myself, make a choice to be neutral and stay away from accusing a man of something that nobody has come close to proving he did? How is that defending him? I have a hard time understanding how it is so easy for people to have PF convicted and locked away with "zero indication" he has done anything wrong. I don't go around labeling those people accusers. We have absolutely no idea why he has done or not done the things he has up to this point. I have 2 children with my ex-wife. Both live with me full time. I haven't heard from her in 2 weeks. Maybe longer. She has always acted this way. Believe it or not, there people who are incapable of knowing or caring how their actions affect other people, even if those other people are children. How have so many people forgotten that there are men and women in this world who walk away from their families and never look back? We have no idea what that dynamic was with KB and PF. No clue. We don't know much of anything about so many things with but, so many people seem to know the intimate details of both people. It's amazing.

Speaking for myself, I've followed gitana1's train of thought in other cases here on WS: The Watts case and Jodi Arias.

She is a fantastic sleuther and victim's advocate, and tells it how it is.

She is usually correct and I respect and value her opinions greatly as do most here on WS.

moo

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Let me just say this....if she did just "walk away" she would have been seen by now by someone. The nation is looking for her and her picture is everywhere. This is what leads me to think that something happened beyond her control. Although there are very rare cases that someone could have been kidnapped and hidden, I know that. But there has been nothing but silence. Pure silence. Not a ping, text or call since November 25th.

Nobody saw Brenda Heist for 11 years.

 

[Jennifer17]

Well if there’s any truth to his date of birth he’s a Scorpio....this explains a lot. JK

Ouch!

 

[Plo_Koon]

Then you havent been reading much here. Take a look at quite a few "new profiles" that have come in asserting that with NO, ZIP, NONE, NADA proof whatsoever

JMO
I don't have a dog in the race either way other than the hopeful (but unlikely at this point) safe return of KB. Since my human nature is to play devil's advocate, what exactly hard proof do you have of PF being involved or committing a crime? I agree with the feeling that being a SO, he should face the most initial scrutiny until he is cleared, but his guilt is being based on a lack of a missing person's report being filed, he hired an attorney, and he hasn't taken part in press conferences or search parties (which there hasn't even been any search parties for him to partake in).

 

[gitana1]

I don't think anyone intending on doing self harm contacts their employer about needing a week off.

They might. To play devil's advocate. There have been a few cases where they send a text "I need some alone time."

But a couple of things are at play in such cases. One, they're usually found quickly and close to home. Two, there are often signs of deterioration, or mental health diagnoses. Three, there isn't zero trail and then suddenly a random trace a couple days later with nothing in between.

Usually these missing person suicides involve a sudden argument or bizarre behavior precipitating the disappearance. Like Linnea Lomax for the latter.

Some show no signs at all. Leanne Bearden comes to mind. Seemed happy. She was found a month later.

But note - LE wasn't focused on any suspect and no one close to her lawyered up and refused to talk.

 

[PommyMommy]

Are we allowed to post the information from Kelsey's neighbor obtained from Woodland Park Underground?

No. MSM and Law Enforcement.
MOO

 

[Lore Listener]

Since it's always a subject of interest, in this thread and others, and I believe knowledge is power and protection, and this is something I've had to unfortunately learn a lot about, I'm gonna crack open my DSM 5 and tackle this:

Is narcissistic sociopathy an actual diagnosis, because I’m interested in reading more about it. It seems that Chris Watts and Scott Peterson definitely had it and many more are afflicted. Scary!

The diagnosis for sociopathy is Anti Social Personality Disorder (ASPD) and the diagnosis for malignant narcissism is Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).

The best, most helpful books I have read on this subject are:
"The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout
"The Mask of Sanity" by Hervey Cleckly
"Malignant Self-Love" by Sam Vaknin

They are all science-based and written by academic researchers, but accessible to non-professionals. They were recommended to me by clinical social work professors.

I have an internal debate all the time about the role of mental illness in murder. Certainly there are bona fide mental disorders... many of them. But do the diagnoses of these illnesses get over-applied? Is Chris Watts really suffering from a mental disorder that made him different from other people? I know it would give us a lot of comfort to segregate these monsters into their own categories and know that “a decent person” would never do those acts. But what if he isn’t suffering from a disorder at all - what if a couple of months before August he was just like anyone else, flawed but someone who loved his family, and then when left alone to live like a single person for a few weeks, opportunities presented themselves and he made conscious choices that took him down a path. And he was plenty social enough and giving enough and emotional enough for NK, but turned off his feelings for his family in the process. His choices led him there, not some disorder, is my current line of thinking. MHO

BBM. First we have to understand where personality disorders fit into the broad, general category of mental illness. Here's a page from the Mayo Clinic that does a good job: Personality disorders - Symptoms and causes

It's important to understand that people with your garden variety mental illness, say anxiety, or depression, or post-trauma symptoms, and even many of the personality disorders, are no more likely than the general population to commit a violent crime, and are actually very likely to become a victim. The idea that people with mental illness are dangerous is not evidence-based and creates a lot of unnecessary stigma, so I appreciate your effort to dispel that myth.

However, on that Mayo Clinic page that I linked, scroll down to the "Cluster B" list: Histrionic, Antisocial, Borderline, and Narcissistic. If you read the diagnostic criteria for Antisocial and Narcissistic, you will see why many of us who have gone to school for mental-health-related fields, dealt with these folks in our personal lives, or just read wayyyyyyy too many of these true crime cases, think that criminals like CW and SP fit the bill, and why it makes sense to look for these qualities in a potential perp. The experts who wrote the books I listed above estimate that 10% of the population does not have the capacity to feel empathy or remorse. Not sure why you think people find that comforting, for me it's completely terrifying, and it's totally evidence-based and backed up by people who've spent entire psychiatric and mental health research careers studying this stuff. Not to mention, NPD/ASPD are almost impossible to treat, in no small part because their disorder leads them to believe there is nothing wrong with them and everybody else is always to blame.

Edited for atrocious grammar.

 

[Steelslady]

Speaking for myself, I've followed gitana1's train of thought in other cases here on WS: The Watts case and Jodi Arias.

She is a fantastic sleuther and victim's advocate, and tells it how it is.

She is usually correct and I respect and value her opinions greatly as do most here on WS.

moo

I concur. I always enjoy reading gitana1's post. They are so well thought out and full of pertinent information relating to the case.

 

[BuySellTrade]

Where are the Xmas tree farms? I hope LE will look in those areas.

The Christmas trees are likely from Federal lands. A permit and modest payment is obtained and specific areas and types of trees are designated available for the public to cut. Some areas are specifically managed for such trees, other areas there is a goal such as thinning a plantation. The permitted Christmas trees come from designated areas where others are also cutting trees and that are loosely managed with occasional federal managers present. There are tens of thousands of acres of the federal forests (actually millions of acres) and Christmas trees cutting is permitted on relatively limited areas.

I was a forester with the US Forest Service for 16 years and currently live retired on a NF inholding. A fun item this time of year was "Christmas tree patrol". Staffing is low in Winter and it was fun to do a different job and also likely earn some OT and good cheer. I did this on two different Ranger Districts. We would go to the designated areas and park and check for Christmas tree permits (and be prepared to sell and issue permits on the spot). We had maps for the clueless and also counted vehicles going in and also coming out for public safety concerns. We would watch for commercial "Christmas tree poachers" and call LE if saw that instance rather than confront the sinners ourselves. If KB is disposed in the forests, more likely not in the Christmas tree areas.

 

[jillianelaine]

How many times do we hear about an arrest and subsequently learn about the perpetrators suspicious google activity. I suspect the perpetrator in this case did not leave a trail on his personal computer. I wonder if the police follow up with local libraries to see if their person of interest had made or are making recent appearances and if so, whether they are able to determine what activity may have been done on the libraries computers. If I had just committed a crime, there are things I'd want to look up!

 

[?mysterian?]

From post 802 in this thread:

"MOD NOTE

Several posts have been removed. Leave the Facebook drama on Facebook. Do not bring it here. Do not discuss the content of social media comments unless they are from an approved social media page for this case and they are posted by the social media page's admin(s).

Take your discussions about who said what on Facebook to your private conversations.

This post lands at random.

liltexans, Today at 4:20 PMReport
#802Unlike+ QuoteReply"

 

[PommyMommy]

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
I just spoke with Kelsey's uncle over the phone. The family is hanging in there as best they can. They're approaching another holiday without their loved one. There is frustration with the lack of info, but he says he understands the investigation must do that. #KelseyBerreth

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Today is Day 28. Kelsey Berreth was last seen Thanksgiving Day. Police aren't sharing many updates, citing the ongoing investigation, but say they continue to make progress on several investigative leads. #KelseyBerreth #FindKelseyBerreth

 

[whoizzit]

Speaking for myself, I've followed gitana1's train of thought in other cases here on WS: The Watts case and Jodi Arias.

She is a fantastic sleuther and victim's advocate, and tells it how it is.

She is usually correct and I respect and value her opinions greatly as do most here on WS.

moo

Agree. The resident girl crush, among others. Gay. Straight. Or Sammich.

Keen intelligence, insight and calm logic are attractive no matter to whom they belong. *usually.

 

[KSinMT]

Has anyone during their internet sleuthing seen that PF may have also gone by the last name "Shaw"? Found that pretty interesting but wasn't able to make anything of it.

I honestly wouldn't trust any of the people checking sites on the internet. I've seen some pretty whacky info on myself lol... Names I've never gone by, people I'm supposedly related to that I've never even heard of, wrong occupation, incorrect income, etc.