CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #11

[Curious Guy]

What is up with that? So many "new" to WS, it's very unusual based on my experience on this site.

I've noticed this also. Been here years and followed hundreds of cases and I have never seen so many new accounts pop up and join the discussion. Most if not all with the same suggestions on what happened to Kelsey I might add.

 

[Kapua]

Based on accounts from those who knew Kelsey, she seems really unlikely to be the type to be walking around visiting bars or restaurants, especially on a holiday. IMO, she's the more home body, religious type who would prefer to be home, cooking, as evidenced by her grocery store run and the cinnamon rolls.

Asking your mother about a recipe, going to a grocery store, having her co-parent take their child, and then walking to a restaurant alone on Thanksgiving day, leaving two cars in the driveway does not make sense to me. If you have groceries in the house, why go out to eat? Why not bring your child who you haven't had a chance to spend time with all week? At the very least, why not drive? MOO

 

[sloane7777]

And if he wanted to be married to KB and buy a house together- it would have happened long before the baby became 14 months old. He doesn’t want to move forward and she does is my opinion. If you want to be a family- you just do it and live on a budget that works to make it happen. Maybe she didn’t want to tell her religious family the truth of the situation since she already had the baby out of wedlock, so she reassured them it was only a financial delay and her mother reports this and accepts this answer.

My thoughts are they broke up a long time ago , She just hasn't ever told anyone

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

What are some other things that might have been brought in besides, luminol, finger print kit, and photography equipment, and returning personal items that were removed in earlier search? And ideas? That’s all I can think of with my limited expertise. And actually, other than KB’s personal items, all of what I listed would have been brought back out, right?

They may have brought in plumbing tools and taken apart her sinks to recover the pipes/drains. MOO

 

[UnicornDragon]

I am curious to know if she had a life insurance policy and who would be the recipient (I assume daughter and managed by caregiver). It could be a strong motive. How long would it take if there were no body for a payout to happen?

Has to be declared deceased, generally 7 years.

 

[cattlekate]

Thank you to all who posted in reply to my early-morning inquiry about cell phone towers, pinging, and the whole Google Maps constant contact location services (except in the Faraday cages of tin foil).

The fact, that I can see from media, LE isn’t searching the Cripple Creek mines, BLM and FS public lands makes me reject my thought that they went up there on Nov 22 for a drive to harvest a little tree.

I had no clue how much our phones “handshake” towers and satellites.

 

[Esma]

I've noticed this also. Been here years and followed hundreds of cases and I have never seen so many new accounts pop up and join the discussion. Most if not all with the same suggestions on what happened to Kelsey I might add.

Probably because it is happening so soon after the Watts case and making national attention.

 

[susiQ]

Can't stop thinking.

Let's say he's guilty, but also knows LE need time to get the evidence together, if ever, to arrest him. He bought himself time with a few lies, and texts. He wants to spend as much time with his little one as possible before they come to get him. He's betting they will never have enough.

On the other hand, it was posted some time back that his head of cattle are for sale, if that's accurate. Sounds like he may be getting ready for a move or the inevitable? I know, this is the time cattle go to auction as well and may just be a coincidence. Just my thoughts.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Speculation that they were broken up has no basis in fact. It’s no different than speculating that she was mentally ill.

But regardless of relationship status, they are co-parenting a child together. A child that is perhaps beginning to form her first words, maybe take first steps, and probably has a phone put to her ear to be able to hear the absent parent’s voice while with the other parent. It isn’t normal for a week to go by and a mom not check on her 14-month-old, any more than it would be normal for the dad to do so. And we have no reason to think that prior to her disappearance, KB acted any differently than a normal mother would.

Let’s say you go on a road trip in a similar circumstance to what PF is saying KB did. And somewhere along the way, you run off the road and are trapped upside down in your vehicle, out of sight of the road and unable to reach your phone. At that moment, knowing that all the strength and independence in the world won’t save you, what are you thinking? About how it isn’t PF’s business the pickle you’re in? Or about how you’re hoping that he makes it his business?

It is not true that there is no basis to speculate that the relationship was broken.

News stories written before the first press conference on December 10th were all describing an exchange of a child - whether the story had said Kelsey dropped off their child or has said that PF had picked up their child. Based on that alone is enough for a reasonable person to question why it seems their was some sort of custody exchange going on especially since it was occurring on a day that is a major holiday where couples and families spend them together.

Also, anyone reading the Missing page run by the family at that time would have seen the same thing. If anyone at that time also say Kelsey's aunt's post (even here at WS before it was removed) would have actually seen the words broken up.

Anyone listening to the first press conference would not only hear the word "exchange" used by the police chief when going through the time line. If you see the press release on the Woodland Park Police FB page immediately after that press conference where they made two clarifications.

If you listened to the second press conference from last Friday the police chief was asked about the custody situation (which goes to the relationship status) at the 6 minute mark:

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Q. What was the custody arrangement like before Kelsey went missing/disappeared?
A. So, that is still going to be part of this investigation so I can't really comment on that

That press conference was 12 days after Kelsey was reported missing and even now another 6 days later there is no definitive statement as to what the true status of their relationship. This is the elephant in the room. There must be some reason why, after all this time, that none of the parties involved have any interest in clearing this matter up.

My instincts say that if they were broken up, and it had anything to do with some actions by PF, we would know about it. It would be part of the story by now. So the longer this goes on, the more and more likely it is that if they were broken up it has something to do with some actions by Kelsey and perhaps something that would paint her in a negative light. When we have her cousin quoted in the media that when this all comes out it will be a "long story" it only seems to point more in that direction. This story shouldn't be "long" when we are talking about a relationship that is between two and three years in length.

More importantly, if they were broken up and had been nothing but co-parents with no involvement with each other, other than to exchange their daughter, for a significant length of time (many months) that opens the door for someone else to have been involved with Kelsey.

So long as the elephant remains in the room speculation on the relationship status is completely valid.

 

[Lady Justice21]

Asking your mother about a recipe, going to a grocery store, having her co-parent take their child, and then walking to a restaurant alone on Thanksgiving day, leaving two cars in the driveway does not make sense to me. If you have groceries in the house, why go out to eat? Why not bring your child that you haven't had a chance to spend time with all week? At the very least, why not drive? MOO

All just thoughts not facts, and let me preface this with this is NOT my top theory, frankly it's not even my 2nd or 3rd theory.....

If my mom didn't know we were broken up and I was spending the holiday alone, I would call her for that recipe and tell her some vague plan like I might be going out for dinner. Not because we're not close, but because I'd want her to enjoy her day rather than fret over me. I may run to the grocery store for something I'm out of and need like coffee for the morning. If I'm flying solo I may not want to cook. Why not hop on my bike (she's a cyclist) enjoy the weather that day and grab some take out. I'd have at least a small purse or something to hold my $, phone, and take out. I'd not have my baby I haven't seen all week and adore, because if the choice is alone with me, or with dad and his family I'd send her with dad, because it's not about me, but her.

All speculation, and again, not even my own top theory. MOO, etc

 

[SandyQLS]

I posted a screenshot map of downtown WP last night. KB's home is less than a quarter-mile from the main highway, and there are nearly a dozen restaurants and probably four or more bars within a half-mile or so from her home. The weather was said to be nice.

Fortune Dragon restaurant is literally a few blocks from her house and no need to cross the highway.

I can see an arrangement where to keep the peace KB opted to be alone or with a friend on Thanksgiving handing off the baby to the F's.

Anyone in possession of her phone would easily see that the person caring for her baby and her employer are the only 2 contacts necessary to buy time. PF is not the only person who knows or is able to ascertain that information rapidly from the phone.

 

[Gardener1850]

I've noticed this also. Been here years and followed hundreds of cases and I have never seen so many new accounts pop up and join the discussion. Most if not all with the same suggestions on what happened to Kelsey I might add.

I believe it happened in the Watts case. Especially after CW had made his lying accusation against SW and we were allowed to discuss that. This case is different from the Watts case, however, in that Kelsey is a victim, she has not been accused of doing anything bad by anyone, (not by LE, not by her family and not even by PF-- yet) and posts accusing her of random negative things will not be tolerated for long by the mods. JMO.

 

[cattlekate]

Based on accounts from those who knew Kelsey, she seems really unlikely to be the type to be walking around visiting bars or restaurants, especially on a holiday. IMO, she's the more home body, religious type who would prefer to be home, cooking, as evidenced by her grocery store run and the cinnamon rolls.

Agree. The Adventist Church is just up Hwy 64 from KB’s house. I wonder how often KB went there. I also wonder what PF’s religion is. Hate to bring religion in this, but they met on an Internet Christian website. If KB was still around after Nov 22, and went to the Adventist Church regularly, you’d think she would’ve showed up for services.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

I'm wondering if she is following in the footsteps of Brenda Heist. Her family was convinced of foul play and that she would never ever leave her small children, yet that is exactly what she did. Her poor husband was accused of murdering her and lived for over a decade under that cloud. I wish we knew more about her private life and her personality. Perhaps she was going home to family, which is why she was in idaho and was planning to return--hence the texts. Then, she just changed her mind.

 

[Kapua]

All just thoughts not facts, and let me preface this with this is NOT my top theory, frankly it's not even my 2nd or 3rd theory.....

If my mom didn't know we were broken up and I was spending the holiday alone, I would call her for that recipe and tell her some vague plan like I might be going out for dinner. Not because we're not close, but because I'd want her to enjoy her day rather than fret over me. I may run to the grocery store for something I'm out of and need like coffee for the morning. If I'm flying solo I may not want to cook. Why not hop on my bike (she's a cyclist) enjoy the weather that day and grab some take out. I'd have at least a small purse or something to hold my $, phone, and take out. I'd not have my baby I haven't seen all week and adore, because if the choice is alone with me, or with dad and his family I'd send her with dad, because it's not about me, but her.

All speculation, and again, not even my own top theory. MOO, etc

OK, for the sake of argument, let's say she allowed the child to be with PF and his family for Thanksgiving day. That's not particularly unreasonable. However, she had Nov. 23-Nov. 25 off for the holiday weekend as well. Does it make sense to you that she wouldn't want to spend ANY of the long weekend with her child? Because that does not make sense to me. Are there any moms of toddlers who want to back me up on this? MOO

 

[cattlekate]

According to Google Maps, it's a 12 hour drive from Woodland Park, CO to Gooding ID via I-80 and I-84. What I want to know is where was KB between 1:30 Nov. 22 and whatever time those texts were sent on Nov. 25?

AND did PF’s phone respond!

 

[kspoon45]

Just an observation, but the approved Facebook page hasn't been updated in almost two days. They had been posting daily, sometimes multiple times. The last post i see on there is from the 18th.

And what's happened since there? LE going back to PF's, the trash dump.... I wonder if there's any significance.

 

[susiQ]

All just thoughts not facts, and let me preface this with this is NOT my top theory, frankly it's not even my 2nd or 3rd theory.....

If my mom didn't know we were broken up and I was spending the holiday alone, I would call her for that recipe and tell her some vague plan like I might be going out for dinner. Not because we're not close, but because I'd want her to enjoy her day rather than fret over me. I may run to the grocery store for something I'm out of and need like coffee for the morning. If I'm flying solo I may not want to cook. Why not hop on my bike (she's a cyclist) enjoy the weather that day and grab some take out. I'd have at least a small purse or something to hold my $, phone, and take out. I'd not have my baby I haven't seen all week and adore, because if the choice is alone with me, or with dad and his family I'd send her with dad, because it's not about me, but her.

All speculation, and again, not even my own top theory. MOO, etc

This theory may get PF of the hook but what about those texts? Would a random attacker have to bother creating an alibi?

 

[Lady Justice21]

OK, for the sake of argument, let's say she allowed the child to be with PF and his family for Thanksgiving day. That's not particularly unreasonable. However, she had Nov. 23-Nov. 25 off for the holiday weekend as well. Does it make sense to you that she wouldn't want to spend ANY of the long weekend with her child? Because that does not make sense to me. Are there any moms of toddlers who want to back me up on this? MOO

Nope not at all. I absolutely believe she met foul play. When I was entertaining the above she was absolutely planning on returning in my pretend scenario. While out she met foul play. Again to be clear this isn't any of my top theories, just speculating how it's possible.
MOO

 

[Lhughessk]

I've noticed this also. Been here years and followed hundreds of cases and I have never seen so many new accounts pop up and join the discussion. Most if not all with the same suggestions on what happened to Kelsey I might add.

1. A high-profile case will always bring in new members.
2. As someone who lurked as a guest for a long time, the new format here is a lot more mobile friendly (I use my phone exclusively), so that made it much easier for me to start posting. Maybe others have joined in because of the new format, too.
3. I don’t know what the underlying motivation is of the posts from you and the OP are, so if I’m misinterpreting, I apologize. But “there sure are a lot of new people around here” could be interpreted as being suspicious and unwelcoming. It’s like the old immigrants not liking the new immigrants. Again, you may not have meant it that way.