CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #14 *ARREST*

[bestill]

WS members contact media all the time, for clarification, retractions etc...as we almost always know the correct info
Media usually does correct, or explain.
Jmo

It drives me crazy to watch reporters giving incorrect information, I know we obsess over these cases but often it's just a matter of doing research and their homework. Media has gotten lazy. JMO

 

[PrairieWind]

Here is how you describe PF, a murderer: Trapped (we don't know this), responsible young man (we don't know this), caring for a disabled parent (we don't know this), did not duck his responsibilities (we don't know this),
he was co-parenting with a woman he's never lived with, He was trapped between two women and two lifestyles (we don't know this)... And to boot you say he might not have been his kid and imply he's raising another man's kid...

He was an adult man, who could have made any decision, but instead he chose to murder the mother of his child. And you are here sticking up for him, and blaming Kelsey.

That is not “sticking up” for PF or blaming Kelsey. It’s just an attempt to understand what could have been going on in his mind.

 

[1mtroyal]

The good news is that we should know who it is in about 9 days (Dec 31).

District attorney Dan May said that under Colorado law, it's a crime to solicit someone to commit another crime. A solicitation charge requires someone to take a "substantial step" towards a criminal act, but not necessarily to complete it. He said the preliminary charges against Frazee don't require investigators to specify who they believe was solicited to commit a crime, but said that would be required when formal charges are filed in about 10 days.
Fiancé of missing Colorado mother Kelsey Berreth arrested, charged with murder

Was he charged with solicitation to commit murder or solicitation to commit a crime? If he is charged with solicitation to commit a crime, that might be paying someone to take the phone up to Idaho and send the two texts (crime here is crime coverup or maybe obstruction of justice). If he is charged with solicitation to commit murder, then he tried to pay someone to commit murder. I would think if someone is under arrest, they would be specific (solicitation to commit murder). After saying that, I think the same person who was solicited to commit murder is probably the same person who took the phone to Idaho. And since this is a murder in the first degree, there was probably solicitation to commit murder.

 

[Mom24]

It drives me crazy to watch reporters giving incorrect information, I know we obsess over these cases but often it's just a matter of doing research and their homework. Media has gotten lazy. JMO

I wish we had a LOVE button because this is perfect. I really did think that sometimes they do it to elicit a response from family or friends, but I do believe that much of it is a hurried response without paying attention to details.

 

[Gardenista]

One church member, who is a close friend of the family, said Kelsey's parents haven't lost faith, but were skeptical of Frazee from the start, describing him as an "odd duck".

Members of Sandpoint church continue prayers for Kelsey Berreth

 

[bestill]

I can’t get over the solicitation charge. My initial thought like many here was possibly a realatives involvement, but now I’m leaning a bit differently. I believe it was reported that two persons accompanied PF to the Waste Management facility. We know LE was notified of this. I can’t help but think LE located these individuals and interviewed them at length and may have done so prior to returning to PF’s for the follow-up on the search warrant and most definitely before returning to KB’s Thursday night. Who were these two people? We know whomever they were they’re not the brightest bulbs in the box! Who goes to the dump with a suspect of ANY crime? Would a person willing to go to the dump with a suspect also be willing to dump a phone? I think either one or both of them gave LE incriminating information, because following “dump day” things really started to roll.

BBM I can't believe that a suspect would even go to the dump in the midst of this. Also can't believe he got away with what he's gotten away with for a month - which has lead, imo, to his boldness. I think when LE was searching everywhere but her house it emboldened him, once they started back at her house he knew he was in deep doo.

 

[Gardenista]

Nightline

 

[PrairieWind]

That's what you choose to get out of it I suppose, I think it's entirely pro PF (is this person related to him?) and anti KB to me. Or just plain misogyny.

If you’re u think that sort of thinking and speculation is victim shaming then you would be shocked to learn there is a lot of “victim blaming” going on at the DAs office, police and FBI. To understand a case, you have to be willing to try to understand the perp’s mindset and decision making process. Speculation about what PK thought and felt doesn’t validate those thoughts or mean that the poster agrees.

 

[gitana1]

When I was thinking of what it stood for, I suddenly thought, we don't even know if it was murder of Kelsey. Maybe PF wanted to murder someone close to her, her family member? I assume "solicitation of murder" means "murder of Kelsey", but even this has not been clearly spelled out, yet.

That wouldn't be huge news. In certain it would be released if it was unrelated toKB. I'm thinking he asked someone to help him at some point but they didn't. Now that she's dead they talked.

 

[SandyQLS]

It seems to me that someone or something indicated to police that her walls had been repainted.

Do you think that the neighbor's observed this? PF or others at her townhome with painting equipment?

 

[enelram]

That's what you choose to get out of it I suppose, I think it's entirely pro PF (is this person related to him?) and anti KB to me. Or just plain misogyny.

I totally agree with you. And thank you for saying it for me.
When I see posts like this where- perp=good,victim=bad I
can understand the prisoner groupies who love the perps
and send gifts to the perps and wanna marry the perps.
This just show me that some women want to take up for men, regardless that they're accused of murder, and put down other women even if they're a victim. Can't change that.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Yes. I was hoping they hoping they would find her phone.
Now I hope Kelsey is found, and justice.
Kudos to All LE working on finding the truth.

 

[Mom24]

One church member, who is a close friend of the family, said Kelsey's parents haven't lost faith, but were skeptical of Frazee from the start, describing him as an "odd duck".

Members of Sandpoint church continue prayers for Kelsey Berreth

In retrospect you can see things in a different light. I'm sure he was odd and they knew something was off, but they rationalized it away. I'm also sure they're having a difficult time trying to come to terms with everything. Fact is, when these things happen you have no transition and it makes things seem unreal. It's not uncommon to see family members fully break down in realization that the person is deceased in the middle of a funeral. I'm sure they still haven't fully come to terms with what's happened. My heart goes out to them and doubly so because this is tied to two holidays, Thankgiving the day she went missing and Christmas when they got the news she was gone.

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

Agreed. This case does seem more frustrating than usual with sloppy reporting. The media reports some things like it is fact, but then you realize they are simply taking what we have heard from the press conference and missing a nuance or drawing a conclusion that was not explicitly stated. It's not coming from "inside information" or exclusive info. I think most of it is inadvertent, but it's making things confusing and then is reported as fact in the MSM which ends up making a mess. People think they are quoting a valid source. I have hardly seen anything out there in this case that hasn't come either from the press conferences or from CB's interviews. But some things even from those have taken on a life of its own.

MOO. Sadly, true investigative journalism appears to be a dying art form. Everything is reported in headlines and blurbs and nothing appears to be researched, well thought out or rationalized anymore. The media is not solely to blame. How we consume media has changed. The 24 hour news cycle, if it bleeds, it leads, has so desensitized people to the horrors of “simple” tragedy that we don’t have the patience, nor the appropriate outrage to demand a difference. Media is responding to market demand. News bureaus are no longer independent, they are part of the entertainment divisions of their larger conglomerates. If the in-depth, well researched story consumes more time/monetary resources than it returns, then slap a headline on half assed whatever, pump it out and move on..... And this is me stepping down off my soap box, one hoof at a time MOOing loudly.......

 

[Gardener1850]

If someone came to me to participate in any way shape or form to commit murder I absolutely would not. (nobody would ever come to me for this btw)
So, who might PF know that he could approach? I'm not trying to sleuth anyone but narrow it down. To me, it would be a friend that had also committed other crimes.

We know so little about PF that it's hard to speculate, but I think he may have asked a family member if he has any relatives that helped get him out of more minor legal troubles in the past. MOO.

 

[oviedo]

Good Morning. I heard back from Patrick Nelson's wife. He said all his news crew knows is the same thing we know. They don't know when the temp custody hearing was actually filed, only that it is set for Dec 27. He said they are still working to find that out.

Thank you for this follow up - it seems the consensus on WS is it was filed after date of death JMO

 

[gitana1]

Actually, in the CW case, I don't assume that avoiding the death penalty was his primary motive to plead guilty. My gut feeling is that he didn't want to speak further, or testify, or be testified about, none of that. I feel he also wanted to shield others from scrutiny... IMO

I agree

 

[PommyMommy]

Was he charged with solicitation to commit murder or solicitation to commit a crime? If he is charged with solicitation to commit a crime, that might be paying someone to take the phone up to Idaho and send the two texts (crime here is crime coverup or maybe obstruction of justice). If he is charged with solicitation to commit murder, then he tried to pay someone to commit murder. I would think if someone is under arrest, they would be specific (solicitation to commit murder). After saying that, I think the same person who was solicited to commit murder is probably the same person who took the phone to Idaho. And since this is a murder in the first degree, there was probably solicitation to commit murder.

Solicitation of first-degree murder.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Here is how you describe PF, a murderer: Trapped (we don't know this), responsible young man (we don't know this), caring for a disabled parent (we don't know this), did not duck his responsibilities (we don't know this),
he was co-parenting with a woman he's never lived with, He was trapped between two women and two lifestyles (we don't know this)... And to boot you say Kaylee might not have been his kid and imply he's raising another man's kid...

He is an adult man, who could have made any decision, but instead he chose to murder the mother of his child. And you are here sticking up for him, and blaming Kelsey.

No, indeed. I am not sticking up for him and in no way blaming Kelsey.

There is never ANY reason to harm another person.

HOWEVER, there are elements of his life that appear fairly plain to me that you don't agree with. It's ok for us both to see things differently.

I think one of the most surprising things about this is his co-parenting. How many millions of men run out on a woman the minute they hear she is pregnant?

Plus other people do desert aging, disabled parents.

Now, maybe PF did not have any ambitions that led him beyond the ranch.

But we don't know that. In fact, there is precious little about this case that we do know.

It is natural that people will see this differently, but I'm not sure he is the monster some other folks are seeing ---

On the other hand, the solicitation charge appears to turn this from heat-of-the-moment into something very cold and much more frightening.

Since my first reply someone has sensibly pointed out they believed he had to have been soliciting KB's murder or it would be an entirely new case. That makes sense to me but I'm not personally backgrounded enough in law to know if it would work like that or not.

My post definitely does not blame the victim. PF was making the choices. I was exploring his options as I saw them.

 

[Gardener1850]

Reading and agreeing with your statement, I'm wondering what in the world PF could've put on his Christian Mingle account (tinder, whatever) that KB would've found attractive in him.

Kelsey's parents are retired hay farmers. So Kelsey most likely grew up on a farm. She liked animals and the outdoors. I bet PF made it sound like his mom's "ranch" was his. The tall quiet rodeo cowboy with a 35 acre property who works with horses, breeds cow dogs and has some cattle might have been attractive for a woman raised on a farm. I think she would have felt right at home living on his property-- except it wasn't his and his mom lived there.