CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #14 *ARREST*

[JKathryn]

There has been an arrogance about him that has been hard to fathom. In the midst of the mother of his child "missing," he never showed any emotion, fake concern, willingness to "help," has been surly whenever the media spotted him, and his big outing out is a trip to the local dump. From an outside view, it's just felt like one big middle finger to the investigation. I do think he got bold. And it will be so interesting to know where he screwed up and who he irked enough to start talking to give LE enough solid information to implicate him and charge with first degree murder and solicitation for murder.

Well what you see is what you get with PF. Can't show certain emotions if you're incapable of having them, even as an act.

 

[LAHOLLA]

IMO he presents as a spoiled “kid” who has always gotten his way. We don’t know much about him so I base this on his reported treatment of animals, his thinly veiled hostility towards the media, his inability to even feign concern for Kelsey. All of these feel like a sign of immaturity to me- more so than living with his mom. She may truly have needed his help. It just seems like his emotional maturity was stunted somewhere along the way.

 

[alliemarie]

Yes, it was reported in this Daily Mail article however, we are not allowed to sleuth family.

She also owns two additional properties in the area.

Ohhhhhh really now..........?

 

[SoVeryMe]

Interesting theory. How would someone accomplish that without neighbors noticing? I have been repainting the walls in my house room-by-room this year and it takes a lot of time and equipment-- ladder, paint, tape, brushes, rollers, drop clothes, etc. Someone would have to have been parked at her home for several houses, possibly more than one day to do that. Even my small guest bath took me several days as I had to do two coats to cover (walls were white and I painted a light beige color). And there would be noise as someone painted coming through the walls to the neighbor who shares a wall with KB's unit. JMO.

I repaint a couple different rooms in my house every year. I get bored and it’s the cheapest and easiest way to change it up! If it’s simple color matching it wouldn’t take long to do an entire room. But considering the house had been closed up the fresh paint smell would’ve certainly lasted quite some time.

 

[katydid23]

I wish you were right and that it was abnormal but it is not. It’s also not legal to remove children from a parent due to suspicion of a crime - even murder. Children stay with parents suspected of crimes in my city, your city, rural areas & in every area of this country. OJ Simpson & Jason Powell are famous examples but this is absolutely an everyday occurrence. Wish it was different. Sorry it’s not

ETA: MOO

I am not sure we can compare the 2 examples above, to this case. In this case, the father has been charged and arrested for murder.

Josh Powell was never charged nor arrested for murdering his wife. Although he should have been, imo.

And OJ was found Not Guilty. If Patrick is eventually found Not Guilty, then he will likely have the chance to gain custody of the child.

But in these circumstances, with the father in jail, accused of the murder, it is normal procedure for the child to be moved out of the home and usually given to the family of the victim, IF THAT FAMILY is considered a good home for the child.

 

[SandyQLS]

Didn't we read where it was reported pf's helpers were discarding paint cans at the dump?

I think that was a poster's speculation, not from the media and not from tight-lipped LE.

I don't remember a case where there were so many LE returns to various places. KB's townhome had at least 3 searches: cursory community caretaker search 12/3?, extensive SW for her home and vehicles, then the Thurs 12/20 additional overnight search.

If this goes to trial, LE will have to lay out all these complex steps of investigation and evidence. I do wonder why if the townhome is now described as the scene of a "violent crime" when did they know that, how did they figure that out, and why wasn't it noticed earlier - or did they know all along but they only told the public she was missing, cold rolls, and so on, so that the suspect would not know what LE knew.

 

[jillianelaine]

I'm a newbie here. To those of you who have followed a lot of true crime, I ask....

Without a body, is it rare to charge someone with 1st degree murder as quickly as it happened in this case?

 

[oviedo]

So, can they speak privately or would all conversations be recorded?

All of Casey Anthony’s conversations in jail were recorded and on video

 

[miimaa]

Agree that the painting and recovery of paint cans is an interesting theory. Very curious to see how the investigation has played out when this case is concluded.

Is there a report about recovering paint cans? I have not seen that.

*modsnip*

 

[SoVeryMe]

IMO he presents as a spoiled “kid” who has always gotten his way. We don’t know much about him so I base this on his reported treatment of animals, his thinly veiled hostility towards the media, his inability to even feign concern for Kelsey. All of these feel like a sign of immaturity to me- more so than living with his mom. She may truly have needed his help. It just seems like his emotional maturity was stunted somewhere along the way.

I agree. I know several people who game and compete in rodeos, half if not more are major egomaniacs.

I grew up showing the AQHA circuit both western and English and from personal experience it’s a small fortune and it’s full of cliques.

The “horse world” is definitely it’s own community and highly competitive but there are still some great people to meet along the way.

ETA: I showed with a very competitive facility so this is all my own POV based upon personal experience.

 

[JKathryn]

Is there a report about recovering paint cans? I have not seen that.

There was a mention early that someone "could see paint cans" as in envision, but the weren't speaking literally.

 

[WildWest]

Hey Everyone,

Please join me in welcoming Kelsey’s Aunt into our group of verified family members.
Remember a verified member does not need to provide links to back up what they post.
You can ask verified members questions but it is up to the verified member whether they will answer you.

Please be polite if you do have a discussion with a verified member. Posters who are willing to become verified do so much to help us understand what is really going on in cases on Websleuths. Especially in a case like Kelsey's.

Welcome Kelsey's Aunt. If there is anything Websleuths can do for you and your family please do not hesitate to ask.

Sincerely,
Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com

May I ask her screen name?

 

[tictoc]

Soliciting a felony in Colorado
Under Section 18-2-301 of the Colorado Revised Statutes (C.R.S.) you commit criminal solicitation when:

• You attempt to persuade another person to commit a felony, or
• You offer your services or the services of a third party as either a principal or accomplice to commit a felony;

AND

• You intend to promote or facilitate the commission of that crime, under circumstances strongly corroborative of that intent.

A key difference between solicitation and conspiracy is that for the crime of conspiracy to take place, there must be an agreement between at least two people to commit a crime and an overt act in furtherance of that agreement. In the offense of criminal solicitation, on the other hand, the motive or intent of the person solicited is irrelevant to the question of whether the person soliciting the crime has violated the solicitation statute.

And to be guilty of criminal attempt, you must engage in conduct constituting a substantial step toward the commission of the offense. This differs from both solicitation and conspiracy, neither of which require anything more than statements (albeit ones made with intent to facilitate or engage in a crime).

The important thing to note is that each of these offenses requires the proof of at least one fact not required by the other. For instance, a conspiracy may be committed without the inducement required for the crime of solicitation. Solicitation, on the other hand, may be committed without the parties ever reaching an agreement or without any overt act in furtherance of the crime solicited.

CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #13 *ARREST*

Brilliant! Thank you for this.
I have a cold and my head is clogged so please forgive me as I am catching up here if I'm a bit SLOW and/or repetitive but...
Does anyone know, as example, what may have led LE to charge PF with the offense of solicitation? What might such evidence be? I'm curious.

 

[Warwick7]

All of Casey Anthony’s conversations in jail were recorded and on video

I don't know about the state that I'm in, but in Florida they have What's called the Sunshine laws, and all recordings .at the jail are made public.

 

[WildWest]

Yes, it was reported in this Daily Mail article however, we are not allowed to sleuth family.

Fiance of missing Colorado woman Kelsey Berreth appears in court | Daily Mail Online
Sheila Frazee, the mother of the suspect, has also been detained by authorities but not placed under arrest.

The divorced mother of four, who is a registered nurse, lives with her youngest son at the ranch, which she outright owns according to public records.

She also owns two additional properties in the area.

Pommy, does that apply to Sheila as she has been detained? And that he lives there? I just posted a link and now worried.

 

[PommyMommy]

May I ask her screen name?

@Kelsey's Aunt

 

[NanZDrew]

All of Casey Anthony’s conversations in jail were recorded and on video

They are recorded and admissible. Several cases have said that you have no expectation of privacy in a police station. An example was Amber Hilberling who admitted pushing her husband out the window to his death in confessing to grandma after police walked out of the room. Grandma was pretty slick and stopped her from continuing and started leading her on what to say. Defense unsuccessfully tried to get this video thrown out. It was the nail that sealed the coffin in this case. It only took a few hours for the jury to find her guilty.

 

[oviedo]

Yes. It's easy to determine:

It is a JV case. That's what CPS cases are filed under. It is true that domestic cases can be filed under that instead of as DR (domestic relations cases), but they would be filed as a child support case or parentage case and THEN custody issues could also be later determined per the same case number.

So in order for that to have been filed prior to the date of death, there would have to be something else on the docket previously. Like a petition to establish parentage and/or a child support action.

Also, more typically, such a case (unmarried parents/paternity/child support/custody) is filed as a DR case.

Another hint is that in CPS cases around the country there has to be a hearing within days of taking a child into protective custody. And such a case would be opened in CO under the JV case number.

So are there two simultaneous cases involving the custody of the baby, one a juvenile case involving CPS and one a domestic case also filed under a juvenile case number?

The only thing surprising to me is that any info at all would be accessible online about a CPS case. (I think it's DHHS in CO).

We can see the entire dockets for family law including guardianships but now I’m wondering if we can also see custody cases -will have to look next week

 

[BuySellTrade]

Is there a report about recovering paint cans? I have not seen that.

No report about paint cans I have personally seen. I was responding to another poster. Interesting speculation.

 

[Seattle1]

I've just taken the time to go through terms of service for this website. I don't see anything against calling reporters. There is something about inserting yourself into the case, but I don't think calling a reporter to correct their misinformation is against terms of service.

I've emailed reporters numerous times for clarification on referenced reports with good results. Also, KOAA reporter Sam Kraemer replies to tweets: @SamKraemerTV