CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #14 *ARREST*

[jillianelaine]

Brilliant! Thank you for this.
I have a cold and my head is clogged so please forgive me as I am catching up here if I'm a bit SLOW and/or repetitive but...
Does anyone know, as example, what may have led LE to charge PF with the offense of solicitation? What might such evidence be? I'm curious.

I suppose if the person who was solicited went to the police with proof he was solicited. And was able to provide details that led the police to where they are today.

 

[Seattle1]

No, the DA specifically said more than a conversation is needed.

Like what? Statute provides it requires a conversation, and that you intend to facilitate the commission of a felony. No agreement or action upon the agreement required (that's conspiracy).

Soliciting a felony in Colorado
Under Section 18-2-301 of the Colorado Revised Statutes (C.R.S.) you commit criminal solicitation when:

• You attempt to persuade another person to commit a felony, or
• You offer your services or the services of a third party as either a principal or accomplice to commit a felony;

AND

• You intend to promote or facilitate the commission of that crime, under circumstances strongly corroborative of that intent.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

If PF had disposed of the body prior to PING DAY, would it have been necessary to "buy time" by contacting her employer wouldn't have been necessary.

Thanks!

Ehhh, I still feel like if he could confuse the timeline longer, it could only help...

 

[Lhughessk]

Kelsey's parents are retired hay farmers. So Kelsey most likely grew up on a farm. She liked animals and the outdoors. I bet PF made it sound like his mom's "ranch" was his. The tall quiet rodeo cowboy with a 35 acre property who works with horses, breeds cow dogs and has some cattle might have been attractive for a woman raised on a farm. I think she would have felt right at home living on his property-- except it wasn't his and his mom lived there.

She definitely grew up on a farm:

“Kelsey grew up on a farm in Moses Lake, Washington”

Kelsey Berreth: Police Search Fiancé’s Ranch In Hunt For Missing Colorado Mom

 

[Jazzy5980]

Do you think PF understands the gravity of the charges against him?

 

[Gardenista]

Like what? Statute provides it requires a conversation, and that you intend to facilitate the commission of a felony. No agreement or action upon the agreement required (that's conspiracy).

Soliciting a felony in Colorado
Under Section 18-2-301 of the Colorado Revised Statutes (C.R.S.) you commit criminal solicitation when:

• You attempt to persuade another person to commit a felony, or
• You offer your services or the services of a third party as either a principal or accomplice to commit a felony;

AND

• You intend to promote or facilitate the commission of that crime, under circumstances strongly corroborative of that intent.

As this states, and as the DA stated yesterday, more than a conversation is needed.

 

[MassGuy]

Do you think PF understands the gravity of the charges against him?

He lawyered up well before he was charged, so I’d say yes.

He knows.

 

[SandyQLS]

Has it been factually established how PF and KB met?

KB's cousin JG was quoted in the DM that they met online. More at link.

Kelsey Berreth's cousin speaks out for the first time since fiance's arrest | Daily Mail Online

• [JG] reveals the couple met online two years ago and that Frazee had helped Kelsey, 29, moved from Washington to Colorado months later

 

[Jazzy5980]

He lawyered up well before he was charged, so I’d say yes.

He knows.

Agreed, however, once PF was charged private counsel went by the wayside and court apptd PD.

 

[Seattle1]

Like what? Statute provides it requires a conversation, and that you intend to facilitate the commission of a felony. No agreement or action upon the agreement required (that's conspiracy).

Soliciting a felony in Colorado
Under Section 18-2-301 of the Colorado Revised Statutes (C.R.S.) you commit criminal solicitation when:

• You attempt to persuade another person to commit a felony, or
• You offer your services or the services of a third party as either a principal or accomplice to commit a felony;

AND

• You intend to promote or facilitate the commission of that crime, under circumstances strongly corroborative of that intent.

As this states, and as the DA stated yesterday, more than a conversation is needed.

Haaa. It obviously can't be a conversation about the weather!!

 

[LAHOLLA]

Agreed, however, once PF was charged private counsel went by the wayside and court apptd PD.

Probably due to the scope of his previous atty’s practice and/or the cost of representation for a first degree murder charge.

 

[SandyQLS]

As this states, and as the DA stated yesterday, more than a conversation is needed.

False. The solicitation may be merely verbal, but it must be purposeful, show intent to actually commit a crime, a serious offer. This is to distinguish it from mere emotional venting like "I could just kill my husband!" which is not solicitation. A solicitation is an illegal contract <think contract killing> and it most definitely can be merely verbal "I will pay you $10,000 to kill my wife" but criminal intent must be present.

It can be based on one solicitee witness's testimony and would become a matter of evidence for the jury to consider true or false or weighted as to value.

 

[Jazzy5980]

Probably due to the scope of his previous atty’s practice and/or the cost of representation for a first degree murder charge.

Not uncommon for families to mortgage land to obtain funds for legal representation.

 

[Irmese]

Child support, formal custody, loss of control over her and the baby, the thought of another man ‘raising his daughter’. All of this will factor in to his intentions. My ex husband was the exact same- it ended up ok but his possessiveness towards the child was much the same. Very scary time when leaving men like this... the difference in her and I - I didn’t trust that my ex wouldn’t kill me so I left w my daughter while he was out of town and only left a phone number for him to reach our daughter. Sucks to have done that but he was out of control. I wish Kelsey would have had the wherewithal to question his perceived loyalty

So his mother incited him to have KB murdered? No that is too much.

"Occam's razor is the problem-solving principle that essentially states that the simplest solution tends to be the correct one. When presented with competing hypotheses to solve a problem, one should select the solution with the fewest assumptions."

My MIL hated me so much that she told me there are child molesters in the family. She said a lot of crazy stuff. We decided not to have children partly because we knew dealing with her would by cray-cray.

 

[LAHOLLA]

Not uncommon for families to mortgage land to obtain funds for legal representation.

Very true and I’m curious to see if they do retain counsel for him once they can raise funds.

 

[tmar]

Do you think that the neighbor's observed this? PF or others at her townhome with painting equipment?

If Kelsey's walls were recently painted,
perhaps the tip dump consisted of paint tins, brushes etc.
Colours could have been matched to the walls at KB's home.
Also loads of cleaning bottles etc, and rags with remnants of blood being present.
MOO.

 

[calo44]

Time line question:

If they broke up Thanksgiving day, and it’s theorized he killed her that same day in her home — how does this solicitation charge fit in, time-wise?

I just can’t see it going down like an argument in the afternoon, then Patrick starts calling/asking around for help in murdering her. No one can do it, or they don’t get back to him in time, so he kills her himself later that day? Unless he’d been planning it for a while?

 

[Sassygerl]

I have been reading and reading but it's so hard to get caught up! I don't know if this has been mentioned but a thought I had and wondered about is if he mailed the phone to Idaho? I might have missed some info, but considering from what I understand it was off for a few days then pinged it's possible he met someone online and paid them to send these texts...or who knows!!??!! Just seemed possible he mailed the phone to Idaho to make it look like she was close to home base.

 

[Gardener1850]

Not uncommon for families to mortgage land to obtain funds for legal representation.

Doesn't seem like they are doing that or he would not have a public defender now. Maybe mama finally cut the apron strings when he was arrested? Or perhaps the place can't be mortgaged any more than it already is? JMO.

 

[LAHOLLA]

Time line question:

If they broke up Thanksgiving day, and it’s theorized he killed her that same day in her home — how does this solicitation charge fit in, time-wise?

I just can’t see it going down like an argument in the afternoon, then Patrick starts calling/asking around for help in murdering her. No one can do it, or they don’t get back to him in time, so he kills her himself later that day? Unless he’d been planning it for a while?

IMO there was no thanksgiving triggering moment. This was already in the works by then.

ETA- pure assumption on my part.

 

[SandyQLS]

Probably due to the scope of his previous atty’s practice and/or the cost of representation for a first degree murder charge.

Thanks, I think you may have nailed it. PF may need a death penalty qualified attorney. Jose Baez had to have another attorney present for Casey Anthony because he was not DP qualified iirc.