CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #15 *ARREST*

[Irmese]

I am guessing he is listed as the baby’s father. She moved there to be with him, possibly when first pregnant, and likely would not want her child to have a blank space for “father” , partly due to her religion, also if she thought they would be getting married eventually. Her uncle stated in one article that she moved to CO to be near him, and then found her job afterward, and we have read she worked at a coffeeshop before that.

I think people want to downplay the relationship now that we “know”he murdered her...but I am guessing they had what seemed liked a solid relationship and future to her at the time she made the move andpossibly for many momths afterward. Jmo

We really don't know anything about their relationship except what we have heard from her mother, her aunt, and his lawyer. I tend to believe her mother's characterization because I think she was close to her mom. I also believe Mom wasn't revealing some things because LE told her what to say. She may not have told her mom about every detail of her life, but I think she was mature enough that she and her mom had a pretty honest relationship. I believe CB when she says KB and PF never lived together. And, I think KB did that intentionally because that way he would have had to go to court to get visitation or shared custody. She had nine months where he didn't marry her, taking care of herself and living on her own to think about that. She had time to research CO's child custody laws. She didn't turn tail and run home, so he must have continued to let her think they would be getting married, and she's not a teenage mom. She was a mature woman. We don't know the circumstances of her getting pregnant. She might have decided she wanted a baby even of the father wouldn't be around, or he might have raped her. Either of those scenarios is as likely as an accidental pregnancy. The more I have read about KB, the less I have thought religion was a motive in her actions. A lot f things point to her not belonging to a strict Seventh Day Adventist church. MOO.

 

[jillianelaine]

I don't believe KB was dating other people. I think she did love PF or she wouldn't have put herself through a daily 70-mile commute. For whatever reason, PF is incapable of loving in return. JMO

The commute might indicate she relied on PF's family for childcare. Not necessarily, love.

 

[moonlessnight]

as long as they extend their image, and until they challenge them, which in the case of Mark Redwine happened in his child's adolescence.

Depending on level of narcissism, the closer a person is to meeting full criteria for NPD (DSM dx) they typically view the child) or anyone actually) as significant extension of themselves and would care mostly as long as it benefits their image of “perfect parent.”

 

[BRRI]

You're right, I should have said the baby's poor BARE, thin arms
and legs. If I recall daddy had a warm jacket and hat on and poor baby looked so underdressed.

People would say this about me/my daughter too most likely. The car seat companies strongly urge that you don’t put the baby in any jackets or bulky clothing. So if I am just bringing her into a house, I don’t bother putting the bulky clothes on her between the car and the house.

 

[Charlot123]

I agree. Although strangulation is most likely statistically, I get the feeling of a gunshot to the back of the head. in the latter, there would be more evidence, and if it was the hired "gun" so to speak, a gunshot is more likely. strangulation is an intimacy/power method of murder. but I think the body was removed immediately and was gone by the 23rd. I still wonder if the baby witnessed it, or did PF remove the baby first, knowing what was about to happen. In order for KB to allow PF to take the baby from her house if this were not the scheduled exchange, she would have had to have been incapacitated, which the baby may have seen. KB may have been restrained and watched PF take the baby, leaving KB with her unknown killer. how absolutely horrifying.

Restrained, or stun gun? Apparently, they are legal. I wonder if they need them on farms.

 

[BRRI]

ETA: I posted my reply in the quote. Multitasking isn’t working for me today!




I don’t find it strange she didn’t give her daughter his last name. I personally got pregnant out of wedlock twice. (Don’t judge) My first child was given my last name because I had no intentions on marrying the father. Moving on....I got pregnant again years later and was planning a wedding 6 months after so we choose to postpone our wedding until after the baby was born. I had bought a very expensive gown I was insistent on fitting into. We gave that child my now husband’s last name.

Just wanted to share my personal reasoning.

This is what I was thinking though. She didn’t give the baby her last name...that makes me wonder if she had either broken up with him or didn’t intend to marry him anytime soon.

 

[SandyQLS]

List of plants approved to handle immediate slaughter of live animals - scroll to Idaho, Twin Falls, Independent Meat Co.

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/downloads/slaughter_list.pdf

j/s

 

[BRRI]

Actually, PF likely made more money than KB, quite a lot more. Income $80,000 - $89,000. Other posters have found $92,000.

Patrick Frazee (Michael), 32 - Florissant, CO | Background Report at MyLife.com®

This concept that PF did not work is unfounded. PF was a farrier, dog breeder and trainer, and was involved in horse and cattle brokering.

Some opinions seem to have taken on a life of their own.

I think those numbers are overall revenue, not profit/take home pay

 

[Lore Listener]

Yes, mine for Erin. Are there mines in the area for Kelsey?

Everyone, especially locals, help me brainstorm this one. A branch of my family is from Teller County and I spent a good part of my youth hiking around there, but I haven't been there except driving through for years. Based on that, and internet research, here's my speculation on mines. Please help me fill in holes/inaccuracies if you can.

IMHO, Idaho, or on the way to Idaho, is a very strong possibility, but since they still haven't found her, I do think a mine shaft is also possible.

The area is littered with mines from the Pikes Peaks Gold Rush, 130 years ago. They aren't randomly located though, they tend to be in clusters around where someone struck gold. Also, with the exception of maybe a couple big, well-preserved historical mines like the Mollie Kathleen, they are mostly just deep holes in the ground, in areas reclaimed by nature after many years. My mom was always terrified of us falling in one. Think of Victorian prospectors with pickaxes--that's who dug these. They can jump up on you.

Here's a map of some of the areas local to Florissant where these old mines are known to be located. This map is of Park County. There's another historic mining district nearby in Teller County, Cripple Creek-Victor, but there is a huge (so big you can see it from space, if you believe my uncle), currently operational, open pit strip mine in that area, and I hear that the international mining corporation that owns it has the whole area crawling with security. It's also a fairly populated area for Teller County, and people are protective of their property, and it's almost all private property. I think someone would have seen PF coming or going in that area.

http://coloradogeologicalsurvey.org/mineral-resources/historic-mining-districts/park-county/

I think the most interesting areas on this map are West and Southwest of Florissant on this map. Fish Creek is close to Florrisant, but other than that I don't know much about it. More interesting are the Black Mountain and Guffey-Micanite districts, down Hwy. 9 straddling the border with Fremont County. First, many have speculated that PF had a grazing lease, and that makes sense because he could only fit a very small number of cattle on his mom's small property. South Park is a very, very popular area for grazing cattle and grazing leases on people's land. Then, there's the picture from PF's Facebook of one of his dogs, which really looks similar to this area, with rangeland in the foreground and possibly the Collegiate Peaks (?) in the background. Thoughts?

 

[BRRI]

I do, if he did it in the bathtub, which is pretty standard practice as those things go.

I’m trying to make sense of the banging during the last search.

Drywall or flooring is the most likely, but if they were removing plumbing, that would be a telltale sign.

I wonder if he could have replaced the bathtub if this was the case. Mixed it in with other garbage to make it look like a renovation. I guess maybe neighbors would have seen that though.

 

[BRRI]

I’m sure this has been discussed early on, but thinking of it again. Why were the cinnamon buns left out, but groceries put away? Makes me think she wasn’t attacked right away when she got home. If someone was hiding in the house as a hit man, I would think PF picked up the baby and then the hit man did what he had to do. Or PF waited awhile before doing it. OR he left the cinnamon buns out but put all of the groceries away

 

[cody22]

I saw something being removed that seemed very thin, but appeared to have weight. Like a bathroom mirror. But being non-porous, I’m not sure they would have removed something like that?

*Edited to remove accidental multi-quote.

Granite counter top ?

 

[tmar]

I wondered whether that day PF took the baby to the attorney’s office, it was to do a paternity test to prove it. I recognize that they would usually send him to a clinic, but if PF appearing publicly at a medical office or other testing site would have caused a stir, maybe they paid for a service to meet them privately.

PF would not need to go to a Medical Centre.
The appropriate tests could have been arranged to be taken at the office, and sent for testing.
MOO.

 

[MassGuy]

I wonder if he could have replaced the bathtub if this was the case. Mixed it in with other garbage to make it look like a renovation. I guess maybe neighbors would have seen that though.

Yeah, that I highly doubt (removing bathtub).

I think he would have used something like bleach, in order to clean it.

But that doesn’t stop blood, and God knows what else, from being trapped in the drain.

I think they found blood in that house. Whether he painted over it, or took measures to clean it up, I’m not sure.

That’s why I think she died a violent death, and/or she was dismsembered.

Who knows though.

 

[gngr~snap]

"I knew him all growing up, we used to go to the Gymkhana and the rodeos when he was younger. I've known him since 2003"

Does Gymkhana have any connection with Twin Falls Idaho?

Neighbors described fiancé of missing Colorado woman as 'quiet' and 'good' | Daily Mail Online

 

[MassGuy]

I’m sure this has been discussed early on, but thinking of it again. Why were the cinnamon buns left out, but groceries put away? Makes me think she wasn’t attacked right away when she got home. If someone was hiding in the house as a hit man, I would think PF picked up the baby and then the hit man did what he had to do. Or PF waited awhile before doing it. OR he left the cinnamon buns out but put all of the groceries away

The purpose of a hitman is to either provide yourself with an alibi, or to have something done that you are unwilling or unable to do (murder).

Hiring a hitman and then personally returning to the scene to clean it and dispose of the body, isn’t something we see.

And hitmen don’t clean crime scenes either.

He killed her himself.

 

[JEM1975]

Sigh, I just remembered Lea Porter’s case, not sure if you guys mentioned that or not...

Iirc, after LE ascertained that Lea’s remains had made it to the CO landfill, they made the suspect go out there too with all the LE officers to dig through the piles of trash...

( Reference link:

Killer is in prison, but body of Fremont County teen has never been found

“Waide told Westminster police he put Porter’s body in a dumpster at his apartment complex. Despite an extensive 45-day search of the Commerce City landfill, during which authorities found her clothes and cell phone, Porter’s body was never recovered.“ )

—-

(ETA: Then there was a horse trainer lady iirc who went missing too from here, not Paige, her name escapes me, has she been found I wonder.)

Ugh.....it is so sad to see how many people are missing in Colorado. I think it's time for me to move!

 

[LAHOLLA]

I’m sure this has been discussed early on, but thinking of it again. Why were the cinnamon buns left out, but groceries put away? Makes me think she wasn’t attacked right away when she got home. If someone was hiding in the house as a hit man, I would think PF picked up the baby and then the hit man did what he had to do. Or PF waited awhile before doing it. OR he left the cinnamon buns out but put all of the groceries away

I think they were breakfast and were baked before the grocery trip even happened.

 

[tmar]

Is anyone else wondering whether there was some redrywalling, flooring that was so artfully redone at KB's house and that's why initial luminal tests showed nothing? Maybe LE had to tear up floor boards to find a mass of blood (ladder/large flat pieces of evidence hauled away by LE)? Also wondering if there were any burn piles on any properties associated with PF's "friends" from the dump? Wondering if there was some small building material item on that trailer at the dump that led them back to KB's? Did PF have any carpentry/ building skills? Did PF go to those lengths to try to get away with this?

Don't know if anyone has discussed this. I do my best to keep up with the threads.

Following your post Owutatangledweb, I wonder if PF, or an accomplice had 'building skills', to accomplish such changes/renovations.
Wouldn't KB's brother notice minor changes indoors to structures/flooring etc?
MOO.

 

[BRRI]

I agree. Although strangulation is most likely statistically, I get the feeling of a gunshot to the back of the head. in the latter, there would be more evidence, and if it was the hired "gun" so to speak, a gunshot is more likely. strangulation is an intimacy/power method of murder. but I think the body was removed immediately and was gone by the 23rd. I still wonder if the baby witnessed it, or did PF remove the baby first, knowing what was about to happen. In order for KB to allow PF to take the baby from her house if this were not the scheduled exchange, she would have had to have been incapacitated, which the baby may have seen. KB may have been restrained and watched PF take the baby, leaving KB with her unknown killer. how absolutely horrifying.

I have an odd feeling that PF didn’t physically kill her himself. He’s too cowardly IMO. And out too much effort into trying to keep his hands clean this whole time. I think he likely figured if he had someone else do it, he could get himself out of this. But then his hit man gave him up, or maybe a hit man who wasn’t actually hired in the end. JMO though.