CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #16 *ARREST*

[riolove77]

Haaaa. Understandable.

Correct. If they had him caught in a lie like that, do you think that would have been able to get a judge to sign a search warrant for his property.

Would that be enough?

Oh I see what you're asking.

It's hard to say; probable cause is so abstract. Sometimes something would be enough and somewhere else it might not be. I still think that standing alone it wouldn't suffice. They would need more. But that's just my legal opinion, it's definitely not black and white. Maybe if he lied AND his phone records put him somewhere else AND he had scratches on his face/neck? You just want to be able to stand behind it, as I know you know. If the judge signed off just on the lie alone, and it turned out he lied for some other reason, the loss of all that collected evidence could be devastating and even fatal to the case.

 

[SuperTmo]

Several months ago I read where a woman was killed by two pit bulls that jumped over the chain link fence that contained them. The owner had been arrested by local LE for petty drug charges. He was in jail 3 days. The dogs were w/o food/water! LE saw the dogs during their arrest. I believe the victim had a pan of bird seed, possibly prompting the dogs to think she had dog food.
Had the owner had minor children in his care, social services would have been called. Should animals not be afforded the same courtesy? Yesssss! Sadly, not only was the woman killed but the two dogs were put down. *the dogs had never jumped the fence or been an issue in the past.

Whoa, that is awful. Animals should be a priority for sure! I can’t understand why they wouldn’t be.

 

[LAHOLLA]

Whoa, that is awful. Animals should be a priority for sure! I can’t understand why they wouldn’t be.

I meant to comment on this earlier- it hurt my heart to read that!

 

[Ccging]

<modsnip - discussing family SM>. I’m sending so many prayers to KB’s family especially during this holiday season and the upcoming court proceedings.

 

[EmilyVan]

Guys, I’m not sure why my suggestions or thoughts are such an issue. Webslueths has changed so much and we used to be able to contribute and discuss cases on multiple levels, from multiple lenses, and disciplines to connect with our victims. Happy holidays.

They're not to me! I'm also an RN (radiation oncology) and find brain injuries and the lasting effects of them very interesting. Not to mention how well the brain can sometimes heal.

I find your posts very interesting and thoughtful!

 

[borndem]

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all Websleuthers, especially Tricia and our Admins, Moderators, and the Whole Wonderful Bunch!​

 

[cynsational]

New court documents released in Patrick Frazee case

 

[Jupiter05]

Of coarse.
PF doesn't want it publicized.
Sorry Creep, it will all be in the open, for all to see how horrid you are.
Too late to keep it quiet now.
It has been too quiet, for too long.
The more publicity about this jerk the better.
MOO.

And if we are denied information, we will just continue to spin theories!

 

[Jupiter05]

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   1mtroyalWell-Known Member
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   I don't know how you all feel about PF lawyering up as soon as
   she was reported missing but if someone close to me went
   missing, getting a lawyer wouldn't even be on my radar.
   Talking to LE and her family would be how I'd be spending my time. And maybe putting up flyers and pleading on TV.
   To me it DOES show guilt.
   Click to expand...
   And if the police informed me that there was going to be a news conference in an hour to publicize my lover's disappearance for 10 days, I would drop everything and attend.
   
   1mtroyal, Today at 2:06 PMEditDeleteIPWarnReport
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   SiouxSaysMember
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   Hello to everyone and thank you in advance for any tolerance that may need to be tendered my way if I don't get things "just right" when posting. I will try my best.
   
   I have spent the past day and a half reading through all the existing threads on the Kelsey Berreth matter after coming across it in an online news article somewhere. I have numerous questions that either have not been asked, or were asked casually and not answered or discussed further - and if the answers exist, I apologize for being repetitive. Also, I have been keeping track of these "unanswered" questions via an external document, so this is cut-and-paste from there and edited for numbering and redacting purposes (such as changing full names to initials, as appears to be the rule of the boards here).
   
   I know some of these questions have no answers as yet because no one has been forthcoming with information or details that would fill in these blanks (either LE, former employers, friends, relatives, etc.).
   
   The Questions
   1. Is it normal, from Doss Aviation's standpoint, for KB to send a text message to her employer informing them of tardiness or absences? The general consensus is that texting is low class when making such notifications, and that most employers harbor intense dislike of that method of information delivery, but there are some for whom impersonal communication is standard.
   2. Who specifically at Doss Aviation was the text message regarding her absence sent TO from KB's phone? Was it human resources, the general manager/owner, a co-worker, a friend-from-work, or someone else?
   3. What were the contents of the text to Doss Aviation? Did KB's message provide an explanation for her prolonged absence from work? (Sick, vacation, family troubles, etc.) Was there only one text to Doss, or multiple texts? (It has been reported, and previously discussed in prior threads on the KB disappearance, that Doss received "texts" from KB's phone, whereas the alleged fiance, PF, received "a text.")
   4. How long had KB been working for Doss Aviation? How did they accommodate her pregnancy? As a flight instructor, at what point in pregnancy did she have to stop working because she could not safely perform all the required duties (such as full stick maneuvering during certain training scenarios)? How long did she take off from work for maternity leave, and how were her personal bills (rent, HOA fees if any, car payment, utilities, etc.) paid at that time?
   5. What was KB's work schedule like during the week of Thanksgiving, and the days immediately following Thanksgiving - prior to the November 25th text message to Doss Aviation stating that she would not be at work for a week?
   6. As a certified flight instructor (and pilot), was KB required by company policy, state regulations, or FAA requirements to receive periodic medical and mental health evaluations? The certification data provided within the KB threads (and externally linked) shows a medical evaluation date in 2016, but were there no more recent ones, such as after childbirth and before returning to work? If so (and I am presuming so because it is generally required by law), when were the last evaluations and were there any anomalies or concerns?
   7. Where did KB live before buying the East Lake Avenue townhouse, but after moving to Colorado from Idaho/Washington? When in 2016 did she move to Colorado? Did she live in the East Lake Avenue property before purchasing it?
   8. Why does KB's pilot/instructor certification have an address, albeit a post office box, in Florissant, Colorado? <modsnip sleuthing family>
   9. Where and how did KB and PF meet? (It has been mentioned on these KB threads that KB "moved with [PF]" to Colorado, <modsnip sleuthing family>, and PF has apparently lived with her the entire time; he has never been mentioned as living anywhere other than in Colorado - so KB and PF did not move, jointly, to Colorado.) Speculation has offered up that they met via an online dating site, but there has been no confirmation of this (aside from, I think, a "verified insider" family member of KB's on these threads stating so).
   10. KB and PF's child is allegedly 15 months old. Add 9 months for pregnancy, and that equals 24 months (or two years) - and KB has only been living in Colorado for two years. Did she know PF before moving to Colorado (and is this confirmed), or did she move, get pregnant <modsnip not victim friendly>, and then try to make things work (or not) with the father of her as-yet-unborn child? Why did she move to Colorado in the first place? It has been mentioned that she moved there for work AND that she moved there to be closer to him - but which is true, or are they both true?
   11. KB's home is a townhouse - with attached residences belonging to other people. What have they seen, or not seen, since Thanksgiving 2018? (Other than the neighbor who allegedly saw PF's truck on Thanksgiving.)
   12. What is the timeline for the texts/calls on November 25th? Specifically, what time did CB contact PF to ask when/if he had spoken to KB? What time did Doss Aviation receive a text stating that KB would not be at work for the rest of the week? What time did PF's phone receive a text from KB's phone?
   13. What did the text from KB's phone to PF's phone on November 25th say?
   14. When, where, and at what time on November 22, 2018 did PF and KB meet to exchange their child? (Safeway, his house, her house, parking lot, neutral location, etc.)
   15. Is November 22, 2018 actually the last time anyone saw KB, including PF? (After all, there is only his word that he met with her to exchange their child.)
   16. Was KB employed full-time (40 hours a week) at Doss Aviation? Her commute time from Woodland Park to Pueblo would be 61 miles or one hour, approximately, so what were her childcare arrangements while working/commuting? Who watched her baby while she was commuting and working?
   17. Why was KB not sharing Thanksgiving with PF? Did she not get along with his mother (or vice versa), with whom he was living?
   18. KB allegedly owns two cars, and both of them were supposedly in her driveway after her disappearance. If she owned two vehicles and only had two assigned parking spaces, as per the realty listing for her townhouse, where did PF park if and when he visited? Were neighbors familiar enough with KB's and PF's vehicles to differentiate between her red truck and his red truck, especially at night or in low visibility situations?
   19. How often did PF visit KB at her home, if ever?
   20. <modsnip sleuthing family>
   21. Does KB have any credit cards or bank accounts, and why has there been no mention - at all - by the media of whether or not those accounts or cards have shown any activity or no activity at all since her disappearance?
   22. KB's family (meaning her mother, because CB has been almost the exclusive "family" voice) has stated that they really don't know PF very well, so what DO they know about him? And why don't they know more? Wouldn't KB have shared her "joy" at being with someone she was having a child with and planning to marry?
   23. Since KB's cellular phone pinged in/near Gooding, Idaho on November 25, 2018, have law enforcement agencies collected video from traffic, weather, and Department of Transportation cameras along the major routes from Woodland Park to Gooding to see if any passing vehicles - prior to the ping - appeared to have KB (or PF) as a front seat driver or passenger? Or if a passing vehicle was PF's (or one he had access to, like the white truck from the Waste Management visit), since KB's vehicles allegedly remained at her home the entire time.
   24. Between November 25 (when he allegedly received a text from KB, contents unknown at this time) and December 2, when KB's mother called to ask about her daughter, did PF attempt to contact KB in any way? If so - what method (text, call, etc.) and how often? Also, if so, why did he not find it strange that she presumably did not return his communication attempt? If not - would he not find it strange that his alleged fiance and mother of his child was incommunicado for a full week, and isn't it strange that he himself did not attempt to contact said person for a full week?
   25. Because KB and PF did not live together and were "exchanging custody" of their baby, what were their pre-existing or prior-to-disappearance arrangements with regard to co-parenting, exchanging the child, visitation or custody, and so on? In other words, who had the kid at what times and for how long each time?
   26. Why is PF's "only had an hour's notice" excuse for not attending the press conference being accepted as reasonable? (Especially considering that the conference was actually announced the DAY before, not an HOUR before.) His home location in Florissant is only 20 minutes from Woodland Park, and under "normal" circumstances, the loved ones of a missing person will do whatever is necessary - even attending a press conference looking disheveled, unkempt, and still in their pajamas - to try to find their missing loved one. Unless he was physically more than an hour away from the press conference location, his excuse is (IMO) inexcusable.
   27. KB's family (her mother and a family member via social media forums) has stated that KB had mentioned plans to have dinner with PF on Thanksgiving, but PF has made no mention of this via his statements through his various attorneys - so what is true? Also, if KB was planning to have dinner with "someone" - perhaps it was NOT PF and she just told her mother (and possibly the other family member) that it was PF because she didn't want them to start murmuring about how she just had a baby with her supposed fiance and now she is possibly becoming involved with another man. Does "another man" ever come into play?
   28. How many times did CB attempt to contact KB by phone prior to December 2nd? CB's last known contact with KB was November 22 (two phone calls), and if they were close to each other, as has been heavily implied, why would CB have waited ten days to attempt contact? If she did try several times over that ten day period, why wait until December 2 to request a welfare check?
   29. According to the mainstream media, KB and her brother CB spoke to each other "several times" every week, so why did the brother or his domestic partner, BK, not contact CB (mother) or PF earlier than December 2 to find out why KB had not been in touch or returning calls/texts? When was the last time KB and her brother or his domestic partner had communication with each other verbally (via phone call) and via text messages?
   30. What did KB purchase at Safeway on November 22nd? (Surveillance cameras also cover cash registers and would show her purchases, as well as what payment method - cash, credit - she used.)
   31. Law enforcement collected PF's DNA for whatever reason - perhaps to confirm or exclude his presence at KB's townhouse. If so - was his DNA found at her home, and where? If not - was there unknown DNA found in her townhouse, and where?
   32. CB has stated she hasn't seen KB and PF's child and CB's grandchild) yet. Does she mean she hasn't seen the child since KB disappeared, or hasn't seen the child since it was born? <modsnip not victim friendly> Has her inability to see her grandchild been because of logistics or discord?
   33. KB appeared to be well-liked at her current job and has social media ties to some of the people she tutored for flight lessons (she provided lessons to aspiring military personnel, according to one report) - so what has she told them via casual or detailed conversations about her relationship with PF? (People always say something, unless they are just social hermits.)
   34. Where, exactly, were the cinnamon rolls? Were they on the counter, in the oven, on a cooling rack, etc? Were they already made or prepared and not yet baked? Were they store-bought (already cooked, just needed re-heating) or made-from-scratch?
   35. There has been NO ONE at all to come forward and claim to be a "friend" of KB's and provide information - even about her personality, work or personal habits, socializing, etc. - so why not? <modsnip not victim friendly>
   36. What were PF's movements during the weekend immediately following Thanksgiving, and then during the seven day period after KB's phone sent a text to his phone? The only person he appears close to is his mother, with whom he lives on a 35 acre cattle ranch, so who would know - or how would it be found out and verified - where he went, how long he was gone, and so forth?
   37. How would KB's brother, who lives in another state, know what items were or were not missing from KB's townhouse? She could have had clothing, luggage, make-up, and dozens of other items that were missing and no one would know unless they were regular visitors to her home or were extremely close to her and knew what she did and didn't own.
   38. The $25,000 reward in KB's case was put forward by an "anonymous donor." While I realize you don't know who someone is when they are anonymous, who is this donor? Did one single donor contribute the entire amount? <modsnip not victim friendly>
   39. When PF made his trip to Waste Management, he was accompanied by at least two other people who were driving two separate vehicles - who were these people and what is their relationship/connection with PF? Law enforcement officers collected at least some of the discarded items at Waste Management - why? What were the contents of the bags/containers/boxes they collected, and how does it pertain to KB or this case? Who owns the white pickup truck that PF drove to the facility? Has THAT vehicle (or any horse/cattle trailers on PF's mother's property) been checked for KB's DNA, or searched for on traffic/DOT cameras between Woodland Park and Gooding?
   40. Law enforcement has said that evidence has been recovered from KB's home that leads them to believe "the crime" occurred at her residence, but they have not specifically stated that "the crime" means "her murder." What crime, then? Abduction? Incapacity? Murder? What evidence has been recovered?
   41. Does anyone else find it odd that there are relatively few photographs of KB? Wouldn't a 29 year old female who is the beloved daughter and sister of family members have had numerous photos taken of her doing various things over the course of her life? Has PF offered up any photos - or were any found on his cell phone - of his alleged fiance? It seems like the few pictures available of Kelsey are the same ones over and over (and several with different poses were obviously taken at the same time because her daughter is in the shots and the pink bow in her hair is visible).
   Those are just things that have occurred to me as I have been reading through the threads, as well as some comments that aren't questions in and of themselves.
   
   The most noteworthy of the comments would be to the person that said (in a previous thread on this matter) that KB would not wear jewelry (an engagement ring) because it was against her religion - there are photos of her with earrings, so she obviously was not opposed to jewelry.
   
   The second comment would be to the family member of KB's who said that she (KB) believed in God and would therefore not commit suicide. Plenty of people who believe in God have committed suicide. Belief does not subjugate personal sorrow, and when a person reaches a point where they are simply done - whether anyone knows it or not - belief will not keep them from taking a final step toward oblivion.
   
   Thank you.

.

These are questions we all have that have not been answered. I will say that I beleive KB's family is very private so this is why there were only a few photos of Kelsey released for search purposes. To assume that there was discord within her family is inappropriate. I beleive that KB's mother has not seen her grand daughter during this trip to Colorado. I am assuming she has seen her prior. I really get ticked when the conversation bleeds into anything negative to do with KB and her family that is unproven. Let's be respectful of the Berreth's and respect their wishes and privacy. I don't know that delving into the religious/jewelry thing is relevant and we know she did not commit suicide so that is a moot point. And I am sure many of those questions will be answered here as soon as they are revealed by a reliable source. Stay with us! It sounds as though you have much to contribute!
Welcome @Sioux!

 

[margarita25]

Kelsey Berreth’s Fiancé Patrick Frazee Seeks To Limit Pre-Trial Publicity

“WOODLAND PARK, Colo. (CBS4) – Patrick Frazee, who is accused of murdering his fiancée Kelsey Berreth, has filed a motion to limit the release of information about the case before it goes to trial. His attorneys cite “massive pre-indictment and pretrial negative publicity.” Prosecutors are fighting to have the motion denied without a hearing.”

(Haha I seem to keep posting all of @PommyMommy ‘s repeats lol, sorry about that I think it’s because I’m reading this thread with one eye open trying not to read certain things (punching horses, etc).

 

[SuperTmo]

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   1mtroyalWell-Known Member
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   I don't know how you all feel about PF lawyering up as soon as
   she was reported missing but if someone close to me went
   missing, getting a lawyer wouldn't even be on my radar.
   Talking to LE and her family would be how I'd be spending my time. And maybe putting up flyers and pleading on TV.
   To me it DOES show guilt.
   Click to expand...
   And if the police informed me that there was going to be a news conference in an hour to publicize my lover's disappearance for 10 days, I would drop everything and attend.
   
   1mtroyal, Today at 2:06 PMEditDeleteIPWarnReport
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   SiouxSaysMember
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   Hello to everyone and thank you in advance for any tolerance that may need to be tendered my way if I don't get things "just right" when posting. I will try my best.
   
   I have spent the past day and a half reading through all the existing threads on the Kelsey Berreth matter after coming across it in an online news article somewhere. I have numerous questions that either have not been asked, or were asked casually and not answered or discussed further - and if the answers exist, I apologize for being repetitive. Also, I have been keeping track of these "unanswered" questions via an external document, so this is cut-and-paste from there and edited for numbering and redacting purposes (such as changing full names to initials, as appears to be the rule of the boards here).
   
   I know some of these questions have no answers as yet because no one has been forthcoming with information or details that would fill in these blanks (either LE, former employers, friends, relatives, etc.).
   
   The Questions
   1. Is it normal, from Doss Aviation's standpoint, for KB to send a text message to her employer informing them of tardiness or absences? The general consensus is that texting is low class when making such notifications, and that most employers harbor intense dislike of that method of information delivery, but there are some for whom impersonal communication is standard.
   2. Who specifically at Doss Aviation was the text message regarding her absence sent TO from KB's phone? Was it human resources, the general manager/owner, a co-worker, a friend-from-work, or someone else?
   3. What were the contents of the text to Doss Aviation? Did KB's message provide an explanation for her prolonged absence from work? (Sick, vacation, family troubles, etc.) Was there only one text to Doss, or multiple texts? (It has been reported, and previously discussed in prior threads on the KB disappearance, that Doss received "texts" from KB's phone, whereas the alleged fiance, PF, received "a text.")
   4. How long had KB been working for Doss Aviation? How did they accommodate her pregnancy? As a flight instructor, at what point in pregnancy did she have to stop working because she could not safely perform all the required duties (such as full stick maneuvering during certain training scenarios)? How long did she take off from work for maternity leave, and how were her personal bills (rent, HOA fees if any, car payment, utilities, etc.) paid at that time?
   5. What was KB's work schedule like during the week of Thanksgiving, and the days immediately following Thanksgiving - prior to the November 25th text message to Doss Aviation stating that she would not be at work for a week?
   6. As a certified flight instructor (and pilot), was KB required by company policy, state regulations, or FAA requirements to receive periodic medical and mental health evaluations? The certification data provided within the KB threads (and externally linked) shows a medical evaluation date in 2016, but were there no more recent ones, such as after childbirth and before returning to work? If so (and I am presuming so because it is generally required by law), when were the last evaluations and were there any anomalies or concerns?
   7. Where did KB live before buying the East Lake Avenue townhouse, but after moving to Colorado from Idaho/Washington? When in 2016 did she move to Colorado? Did she live in the East Lake Avenue property before purchasing it?
   8. Why does KB's pilot/instructor certification have an address, albeit a post office box, in Florissant, Colorado? <modsnip sleuthing family>
   9. Where and how did KB and PF meet? (It has been mentioned on these KB threads that KB "moved with [PF]" to Colorado, <modsnip sleuthing family>, and PF has apparently lived with her the entire time; he has never been mentioned as living anywhere other than in Colorado - so KB and PF did not move, jointly, to Colorado.) Speculation has offered up that they met via an online dating site, but there has been no confirmation of this (aside from, I think, a "verified insider" family member of KB's on these threads stating so).
   10. KB and PF's child is allegedly 15 months old. Add 9 months for pregnancy, and that equals 24 months (or two years) - and KB has only been living in Colorado for two years. Did she know PF before moving to Colorado (and is this confirmed), or did she move, get pregnant <modsnip not victim friendly>, and then try to make things work (or not) with the father of her as-yet-unborn child? Why did she move to Colorado in the first place? It has been mentioned that she moved there for work AND that she moved there to be closer to him - but which is true, or are they both true?
   11. KB's home is a townhouse - with attached residences belonging to other people. What have they seen, or not seen, since Thanksgiving 2018? (Other than the neighbor who allegedly saw PF's truck on Thanksgiving.)
   12. What is the timeline for the texts/calls on November 25th? Specifically, what time did CB contact PF to ask when/if he had spoken to KB? What time did Doss Aviation receive a text stating that KB would not be at work for the rest of the week? What time did PF's phone receive a text from KB's phone?
   13. What did the text from KB's phone to PF's phone on November 25th say?
   14. When, where, and at what time on November 22, 2018 did PF and KB meet to exchange their child? (Safeway, his house, her house, parking lot, neutral location, etc.)
   15. Is November 22, 2018 actually the last time anyone saw KB, including PF? (After all, there is only his word that he met with her to exchange their child.)
   16. Was KB employed full-time (40 hours a week) at Doss Aviation? Her commute time from Woodland Park to Pueblo would be 61 miles or one hour, approximately, so what were her childcare arrangements while working/commuting? Who watched her baby while she was commuting and working?
   17. Why was KB not sharing Thanksgiving with PF? Did she not get along with his mother (or vice versa), with whom he was living?
   18. KB allegedly owns two cars, and both of them were supposedly in her driveway after her disappearance. If she owned two vehicles and only had two assigned parking spaces, as per the realty listing for her townhouse, where did PF park if and when he visited? Were neighbors familiar enough with KB's and PF's vehicles to differentiate between her red truck and his red truck, especially at night or in low visibility situations?
   19. How often did PF visit KB at her home, if ever?
   20. <modsnip sleuthing family>
   21. Does KB have any credit cards or bank accounts, and why has there been no mention - at all - by the media of whether or not those accounts or cards have shown any activity or no activity at all since her disappearance?
   22. KB's family (meaning her mother, because CB has been almost the exclusive "family" voice) has stated that they really don't know PF very well, so what DO they know about him? And why don't they know more? Wouldn't KB have shared her "joy" at being with someone she was having a child with and planning to marry?
   23. Since KB's cellular phone pinged in/near Gooding, Idaho on November 25, 2018, have law enforcement agencies collected video from traffic, weather, and Department of Transportation cameras along the major routes from Woodland Park to Gooding to see if any passing vehicles - prior to the ping - appeared to have KB (or PF) as a front seat driver or passenger? Or if a passing vehicle was PF's (or one he had access to, like the white truck from the Waste Management visit), since KB's vehicles allegedly remained at her home the entire time.
   24. Between November 25 (when he allegedly received a text from KB, contents unknown at this time) and December 2, when KB's mother called to ask about her daughter, did PF attempt to contact KB in any way? If so - what method (text, call, etc.) and how often? Also, if so, why did he not find it strange that she presumably did not return his communication attempt? If not - would he not find it strange that his alleged fiance and mother of his child was incommunicado for a full week, and isn't it strange that he himself did not attempt to contact said person for a full week?
   25. Because KB and PF did not live together and were "exchanging custody" of their baby, what were their pre-existing or prior-to-disappearance arrangements with regard to co-parenting, exchanging the child, visitation or custody, and so on? In other words, who had the kid at what times and for how long each time?
   26. Why is PF's "only had an hour's notice" excuse for not attending the press conference being accepted as reasonable? (Especially considering that the conference was actually announced the DAY before, not an HOUR before.) His home location in Florissant is only 20 minutes from Woodland Park, and under "normal" circumstances, the loved ones of a missing person will do whatever is necessary - even attending a press conference looking disheveled, unkempt, and still in their pajamas - to try to find their missing loved one. Unless he was physically more than an hour away from the press conference location, his excuse is (IMO) inexcusable.
   27. KB's family (her mother and a family member via social media forums) has stated that KB had mentioned plans to have dinner with PF on Thanksgiving, but PF has made no mention of this via his statements through his various attorneys - so what is true? Also, if KB was planning to have dinner with "someone" - perhaps it was NOT PF and she just told her mother (and possibly the other family member) that it was PF because she didn't want them to start murmuring about how she just had a baby with her supposed fiance and now she is possibly becoming involved with another man. Does "another man" ever come into play?
   28. How many times did CB attempt to contact KB by phone prior to December 2nd? CB's last known contact with KB was November 22 (two phone calls), and if they were close to each other, as has been heavily implied, why would CB have waited ten days to attempt contact? If she did try several times over that ten day period, why wait until December 2 to request a welfare check?
   29. According to the mainstream media, KB and her brother CB spoke to each other "several times" every week, so why did the brother or his domestic partner, BK, not contact CB (mother) or PF earlier than December 2 to find out why KB had not been in touch or returning calls/texts? When was the last time KB and her brother or his domestic partner had communication with each other verbally (via phone call) and via text messages?
   30. What did KB purchase at Safeway on November 22nd? (Surveillance cameras also cover cash registers and would show her purchases, as well as what payment method - cash, credit - she used.)
   31. Law enforcement collected PF's DNA for whatever reason - perhaps to confirm or exclude his presence at KB's townhouse. If so - was his DNA found at her home, and where? If not - was there unknown DNA found in her townhouse, and where?
   32. CB has stated she hasn't seen KB and PF's child and CB's grandchild) yet. Does she mean she hasn't seen the child since KB disappeared, or hasn't seen the child since it was born? <modsnip not victim friendly> Has her inability to see her grandchild been because of logistics or discord?
   33. KB appeared to be well-liked at her current job and has social media ties to some of the people she tutored for flight lessons (she provided lessons to aspiring military personnel, according to one report) - so what has she told them via casual or detailed conversations about her relationship with PF? (People always say something, unless they are just social hermits.)
   34. Where, exactly, were the cinnamon rolls? Were they on the counter, in the oven, on a cooling rack, etc? Were they already made or prepared and not yet baked? Were they store-bought (already cooked, just needed re-heating) or made-from-scratch?
   35. There has been NO ONE at all to come forward and claim to be a "friend" of KB's and provide information - even about her personality, work or personal habits, socializing, etc. - so why not? <modsnip not victim friendly>
   36. What were PF's movements during the weekend immediately following Thanksgiving, and then during the seven day period after KB's phone sent a text to his phone? The only person he appears close to is his mother, with whom he lives on a 35 acre cattle ranch, so who would know - or how would it be found out and verified - where he went, how long he was gone, and so forth?
   37. How would KB's brother, who lives in another state, know what items were or were not missing from KB's townhouse? She could have had clothing, luggage, make-up, and dozens of other items that were missing and no one would know unless they were regular visitors to her home or were extremely close to her and knew what she did and didn't own.
   38. The $25,000 reward in KB's case was put forward by an "anonymous donor." While I realize you don't know who someone is when they are anonymous, who is this donor? Did one single donor contribute the entire amount? <modsnip not victim friendly>
   39. When PF made his trip to Waste Management, he was accompanied by at least two other people who were driving two separate vehicles - who were these people and what is their relationship/connection with PF? Law enforcement officers collected at least some of the discarded items at Waste Management - why? What were the contents of the bags/containers/boxes they collected, and how does it pertain to KB or this case? Who owns the white pickup truck that PF drove to the facility? Has THAT vehicle (or any horse/cattle trailers on PF's mother's property) been checked for KB's DNA, or searched for on traffic/DOT cameras between Woodland Park and Gooding?
   40. Law enforcement has said that evidence has been recovered from KB's home that leads them to believe "the crime" occurred at her residence, but they have not specifically stated that "the crime" means "her murder." What crime, then? Abduction? Incapacity? Murder? What evidence has been recovered?
   41. Does anyone else find it odd that there are relatively few photographs of KB? Wouldn't a 29 year old female who is the beloved daughter and sister of family members have had numerous photos taken of her doing various things over the course of her life? Has PF offered up any photos - or were any found on his cell phone - of his alleged fiance? It seems like the few pictures available of Kelsey are the same ones over and over (and several with different poses were obviously taken at the same time because her daughter is in the shots and the pink bow in her hair is visible).
   Those are just things that have occurred to me as I have been reading through the threads, as well as some comments that aren't questions in and of themselves.
   
   The most noteworthy of the comments would be to the person that said (in a previous thread on this matter) that KB would not wear jewelry (an engagement ring) because it was against her religion - there are photos of her with earrings, so she obviously was not opposed to jewelry.
   
   The second comment would be to the family member of KB's who said that she (KB) believed in God and would therefore not commit suicide. Plenty of people who believe in God have committed suicide. Belief does not subjugate personal sorrow, and when a person reaches a point where they are simply done - whether anyone knows it or not - belief will not keep them from taking a final step toward oblivion.
   
   Thank you.

Welcome to WS! Lots of good questions. I’m behind and not super familiar with this case but will look forward to seeing some of your questions answered!

 

[margarita25]

New documents released in case against Kelsey Berreth’s fiancé
The defense and prosecution in the case against Patrick Frazee have both filed documents ahead of what could be a long legal battle.

“Monday’s court documents include a request from Frazee’s public defenders asking that investigators turn over emails and text messages they’ve recovered.”

ETA: I did it again, looks like @PommyMommy already posted this too. Sorry about that! I’ll just check her profile now before I post heehee.

 

[The Farm]

I can't wait until some of this is released.

 

[Liadan]

I cannot believe that this cowboy thought that he could silence Kelsey's supporters by putting a gagging order on the media.

 

[Warwick7]

"On Saturday, the police department in Twin Falls, Idaho, said in a statement that its officers helped the Colorado Bureau of Investigation and the FBI "to prepare and serve several search warrants as well as processing some items of evidence."

From link up above.
....serve several search warrants in Idaho....

 

[MassGuy]

I cannot believe that this cowboy thought that he could silence Kelsey's supporters by putting a gagging order on the media.

This isn’t a gag order on the media, it’s seeking a gag order on the parties involved here.

No one can tell the media what to do.

Thank God.

 

[jnblsm]

I'll never catch up!

 

[margarita25]

I'll never catch up!

Standby, I have a post for you.

Eta: Here ya go:

What we know about Kelsey:

29 years old
5'3 and 110 lbs

Employment:
Flight instructor with a Commercial Pilot's License
Worked at a coffee shop in Florissant for a few months
Worked as a Flight Instructor at Springs Aviation in Peyton, CO in 2016
Currently works for Doss Aviation as a flight instructor in Pueblo, CO (abt 70 miles from Woodland Park)

Education:
KB spent most of her childhood attending Crestview School in Moses Lake, WA
Crestview School is tied to the local Seventh Day Adventist Church which held a vigil for Kelsey
Trained as a pilot at Big Bend Community College in Moses Lake, WA

Address and location history:
Born in Grant County, Washington
Raised in Warden, Washington
Kelsey moved to Sandpoint, ID at some point
Moved to Woodland Park, CO in 2016
Had a PO Box address in Florissant, CO
Lived in another townhouse unit in her subdivision before buying her current home
Current address: 269 E Lake Ave, Woodland Park, CO
--Home purchased by KB in May 2018
--2 bedroom, 1 bath Duplex/Townhouse

Info on KB's Personality and Interests
“She’s not the kind that runs off. This is completely out of character…Kelsey is reliable, considerate and honest,” -KB's Mom

"She's such a good person, a loving person,""She's grounded and responsible. She has a one year old child, she wouldn't just leave her." -KB's Cousin

'When you're around Kelsey, I think you just feel like a better person, being around Kelsey makes me smile, it makes me smile just to think about her, she's just a good person.' -KB's cousin

"a little reserved and sometimes soft-spoken" -A former boss

'I don't think she left willingly. Kelsey's so reliable and responsible, she's a mom, she would never leave her child. She was very excited [to be a mom], and she was a great mom.' --KB's Cousin

Relatives have described Kelsey as a sweet, quiet woman who radiates a warm energy.

“When you see her, you want to give her a great big hug and squeeze her cheeks. You can feel the energy coming from her. She’s kind, compassionate and honest,” -KB's BIL

“She was like the sister I never had.” -KB's BIL

Kelsey takes a while to warm up to people, but that her relationships are meaningful; Kelsey focused on the quality of her friendships instead of quantity -KB's BIL

KB enjoyed paddle boarding, canoeing and bike riding -KB's BIL

KB is a sweet, loving “country girl” who loves horses, hiking and the outdoors. -KB's Cousin

KB loves hiking, running and bicycling.

“She looks like such an angel, and I think that she is,” “She’s the kind of person where you feel better when you’re around her.” -KB's Cousin

“She’s an awesome person. She’s so kind… You can tell she’s a very kind-hearted person,” -a neighbor

Family info from MSM:
KB's parents are retired hay farmers and lived north of Warden until a few years ago when they moved to Sandpoint, Idaho
KB's brother and brother-in-law live in Tacoma, WA
KB's Uncle lives in Moses Lake, WA
KB and her mom talked often; they were attached at the hips since she was little and they were best friends
KB's mom knew her schedule and when to call her/when not to call because she was teaching classes; It was weird when she had not heard from Kelsey
“She and her brother spoke multiple times a week, as well as her mom.” -KB's BIL
"They're a very close-knit family" -KB's Cousin

What we know about Patrick Frazee:

32 Years Old
6'3 and 205 lbs

Education:
Went to Woodland Park High School
PF Jail Record lists "some college"

Employment:
Farrier
Cattle Rancher
Breeds cow herding dogs
Rodeo competitor

Address and location history:
PF was born in Colorado Springs and raised in Teller County
Currently lives with his mother at 1713 Wildhorn Rd Forissant, CO
--property searched by LE and owned by his mother
--35-acre ranch has a one-and-a-half story home and a 1,300 sq ft barn

Family info from MSM:
PF's parents are divorced
PF's mother is a registered nurse
In addition to the property searched, PF's mother owns 2 other properties in the area
PF has 3 siblings
PF's brother SF works for the Colorado Springs Police Department
A cousin has worked for the Garfield County Sheriff’s Office
An uncle FF is a retired Kiowa County sheriff

Info from people who know PF:
“He worked on my horses for a real short time till he punched one in the gut with a rasp and that was about the last time I let him work on my horses,” -MG

'It's a characteristic that was ongoing for years. Anytime he was at a rope and his horse didn't act right, he'd rip on his face, kick him. In the community, we were all at ropings and stuff, but if the horse doesn't do exactly what it's supposed to do you don't just beat them.' -MG

'One time we were at a rodeo in Cripple Creek and he got mad because his horse didn't do good and somebody didn't heel just right to help him get in the money and he got so mad he left out of Cripple Creek Rodeo, flipped his horse trailer with his horse in it and almost killed that horse.
'He got mad, tries to get his vehicle out of there and there's too many cars tightly packed in. Lots of people were there. -MG

'He was in a rage of being mad and angry, because the heeler didn't heel and they lost out the money. It was kind of a sad deal, especially trying to get the horse out that was traumatic for everybody.' -MG

A former girlfriend of PF declined to speak to the press but her partner commented saying that he knew Frazee to be aggressive with horses and dogs but that he did not beat his girlfriends.
“He cheated on her while she was in the hospital, take that for what it’s worth,” the man said of his current partner’s former relationship with Frazee

'Patrick is a horseshoer, I heard once he was thumping on the horse "saying this is how you've got to do it," that horse reared up and kicked him right in the forehead, he got a bunch of stitches and his [then] girlfriend hauled him to the hospital to get stitches.' -High School Classmate of PF

'Oh yeah, he's a recluse for sure. I haven't seen him in 10 years or so.' -High School Classmate of PF

A neighbor heard 'mixed things' about Frazee's alleged rough behavior with animals.
He was quiet and shy. He had his own friends circle and stayed close to his friends,' he said.
'He did come across, "I'm a big tough cowboy." But that's that cowboy way, got be strong.
'That's how he was raised, he raised horses. I think if you're raised country that's normal, if you're raised city it's going to seem harsh. It's not wrong in his eyes. Sometimes there's neglect and over abuse yes, he'd tread the fine line on it I'd say. You've got make a horse submit to what you want to do. You've got to be kind of firm. You shouldn't hit them.' --Former Neighbor HF

Two friends of Patrick defended him and rejected any suggestion he was cruel towards animals:

'He's an old fashioned cowboy. He's just old school, he does things the old way. He shoes horses modern, but he trains horses the way people used to do it, I wouldn't say that he's cruel or not. He's a stand up real good guy. I've just known him for years and he's a great person.'
The friend said he had not met Frazee's fiancée but added: 'I know the day I saw him he was a great dad to the daughter and he's a good guy. He was fine. --Man who saw PF shoe horses in Sept.

'I know him, when we had horses he used to trim our horses hooves. He was a very nice young man, I knew him all growing up, we used to go to the Gymkhana and the rodeos when he was younger. I've known him since 2003 and I never saw him do anything inappropriate or out of order.' -DR, runs the propane store

"I've always considered him to be a gentle soul. Soft spoken and just really down to Earth and practical." “couldn’t imagine him doing anything that would harm anyone.” -Friend, SO

Relationship info reported by others:
KB and PF met online according to her cousin
PF helped KB move from WA to CO only months after they met
KB told her cousin she was happy when she moved to be near PF
KB often talked about her boyfriend (PF) at her aviation job in 2016
Baby K was born Oct 2017
They were engaged but did not have a wedding date set
They have never lived together -- KB's mom

"The relationship has been good, um, they're loving, um it hasn't been ideal, you know given given the economy and things, you know, they had plans that haven't worked out as they would have liked but they've dealt with that and they've made things work regardless." --KB's mom

"I mean they had plans, you know, they were planning to find a place for them to live and so forth and the economy with prices dropping out...Kelsey's fiance has some cattle and stuff and prices were poor and so the money just wasn't available as soon as they had hoped, but they make it work."-- KB's mom

There were no records of any domestic issues between the couple --Woodland Police Chief Miles De Young

“Like most relationships it has ups and downs but for the most part it's a good relationship,” -Frazee’s lawyer

KB's parents were skeptical of Frazee from the start, describing him as an "odd duck" --close friend of the family from church

Misc Info
KB owned two vehicles-- a red truck and a car used for commuting to work
PF also owns a red truck
Neighbor AG gave KB a baby gate the week before Thanksgiving
AG had always assumed Frazee lived there with Kelsey and the baby as she would see him come and go in his red work truck.
AG never heard any arguing
An employee at Starbucks said Kelsey would pull in to the drive-thru about once a week to get a chai latte

Sources:
Search expands for Colorado mom, 29, last seen on Thanksgiving
Kelsey Berreth's cousin speaks out for the first time since fiance's arrest | Daily Mail Online
Pasco relatives pray for miracle as search continues for missing Colorado mother
Pasco relatives pray for miracle as search continues for missing Colorado mother
Fiance accused of killing Colorado woman missing for month
Fiance of missing mom Kelsey Berreth ‘punched a horse in the gut,’ cheated on his ex while she was in the hospital, sources claim: Report
Mother of missing Colorado mom speaks out on daughter's disappearance
Mother of Kelsey Berreth asked about relationship between and her daughter and her fiancé
Kelsey Berreth: Police Search Fiancé’s Ranch In Hunt For Missing Colorado Mom
Fiance of missing Kelsey Berreth voluntarily releases cell phone, DNA sample to law enforcement
Fiancee of missing Colorado mom Kelsey Berreth is arrested and charged with murder | Daily Mail Online
Patrick Frazee: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com
Kelsey Berreth's Fiance Is a 'Gentle Soul' Who Would Never Hurt Anyone, Friend Says
Neighbor of missing mom Kelsey Berreth says she saw red pickup truck, possibly fiance Patrick Frazee’s, at her home the day she went missing
Cops process evidence found in Kelsey Berreth's murder investigation now in Idaho | Daily Mail Online
Members of Sandpoint church continue prayers for Kelsey Berreth
Fiance accused of killing Colorado woman missing for month

Also, media thread:

CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Media, Maps and Timelines *NO DISCUSSION*

 

[ttg1]

I'll never catch up!

You and me both! Most posts end up getting quoted down the line a little bit so it's all good!

 

[crhedBngr]

I cannot believe that this cowboy thought that he could silence Kelsey's supporters by putting a gagging order on the media.

Well, he's not the brightest bulb in a string of lights. All foam, no beer. One sandwich short of a picnic. Few, if any, seeds in his pumpkin.

On a more serious note, I am so, so sorry Kelsey's Family and Friends have to go through this Holiday season without their beautiful daughter. Hoping and praying Little K. will provide some measure of comfort.