CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #16 *ARREST*

[WildWest]

Lol. Sometimes when I want to catch up on a thread I just read all the posts by PommyMommy and MassGuy. That usually tells me what people have been discussing.
Those two hardly miss a beat.

x2!!

 

[LAHOLLA]

I feel the same Trudie. Did you see that clear photo of baby K with her mom? Just beautiful.

Did you see the one of both of them with CB? So precious and definitely showed the love that KB had for her momma <3

 

[Trudie]

I feel the same Trudie. Did you see that clear photo of baby K with her mom? Just beautiful.

I did! Stunning girls! The baby isn’t old enough to retain memory of either parent. She’ll know them only thru memories shared. Only time will tell if PF will be convicted & IF he is if he’s allowed to maintain any relationship with her. Often times, the court allows letters, phone calls, mandatory visits, etc. I’m neutral on this, personally. So many variables. At her age, I see no reason for PF to resume any relationship with her. But....his family should not be punished, I’m sure they adore the baby. They would have the power to see a relationship between PF & his baby continue. PF will have a lot of time to write letters which can be stored for the child, he will be allowed calls home, there’s no way all means of communication can be stopped. I don’t subscribe to the theory I see here lately where the extended family is suddenly evil & are partly to blame. I had to STOP reading a thread recently when the mom of the accused was suddenly ripped apart. Idk why anyone would even think such things.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Wanted to add my .02
I think PF motion Re medical care was invoking privilege WRT having medical history brought into evidence, not refusing care. KWIM? MOO
One of our legal experts can weigh in. I think it was more lazy reporting. I’m basing it on one of peoples’ responses.

Definitely not a legal expert here, but that’s how I understood that motion, too. As you said, it’s evident in People’s response to it, IMO:

“PEOPLE’S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT’S NOTICE OF INVOCATION OF ALL STATUORY, CASE LAW, AND CONSTITUIONAL PRIVILEGES (P-4)

[SBM]

2. The Defendant has the authority to invoke his medical privilege for ‘all medical and psychiatric, including drug or alcohol treatment privileges.’

3. However, it is the People’s position that the Defendant does not have the right or authority to invoke ‘all privileges in school, military, probation, prison, social services, or other records in which the Defendant has a confidentiality expectation.’

[SBM]”
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/001/P-4 People's Response to Defendant's Notice of Invocation of all Statuory, Case Law, and Constituional Privileges.pdf

From Wikipedia (not the best source, but ...):
“In the law of evidence, a privilege is a rule of evidence that allows the holder of the privilege to refuse to disclose information or provide evidence about a certain subject or to bar such evidence from being disclosed or used in a judicial or other proceeding.”
Privilege (evidence) - Wikipedia

So I’m really not sure where the reporter got the idea that “Frazee also refuses medical/psychiatric care while in custody.“ Bad reporting is the only thing I can come up with.
New court documents in State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee

 

[tictoc]

I did! Stunning girls! The baby isn’t old enough to retain memory of either parent. She’ll know them only thru memories shared. Only time will tell if PF will be convicted & IF he is if he’s allowed to maintain any relationship with her. Often times, the court allows letters, phone calls, mandatory visits, etc. I’m neutral on this, personally. So many variables. At her age, I see no reason for PF to resume any relationship with her. But....his family should not be punished, I’m sure they adore the baby. They would have the power to see a relationship between PF & his baby continue. PF will have a lot of time to write letters which can be stored for the child, he will be allowed calls home, there’s no way all means of communication can be stopped. I don’t subscribe to the theory I see here lately where the extended family is suddenly evil & are partly to blame. I had to STOP reading a thread recently when the mom of the accused was suddenly ripped apart. Idk why anyone would even think such things.

...I have to admit, I "studied" that photo of the baby looking for signs of PF...I guess that's not a question, his paternity. There have just been so many questions and unknowns from the beginning of this case...

 

[tictoc]

Definitely not a legal expert here, but that’s how I understood that motion, too. As you said, it’s evident in People’s response to it, IMO:

“PEOPLE’S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT’S NOTICE OF INVOCATION OF ALL STATUORY, CASE LAW, AND CONSTITUIONAL PRIVILEGES (P-4)

[SBM]

2. The Defendant has the authority to invoke his medical privilege for ‘all medical and psychiatric, including drug or alcohol treatment privileges.’

3. However, it is the People’s position that the Defendant does not have the right or authority to invoke ‘all privileges in school, military, probation, prison, social services, or other records in which the Defendant has a confidentiality expectation.’

[SBM]”
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/001/P-4 People's Response to Defendant's Notice of Invocation of all Statuory, Case Law, and Constituional Privileges.pdf

From Wikipedia (not the best source, but ...):
“In the law of evidence, a privilege is a rule of evidence that allows the holder of the privilege to refuse to disclose information or provide evidence about a certain subject or to bar such evidence from being disclosed or used in a judicial or other proceeding.”
Privilege (evidence) - Wikipedia

So I’m really not sure where the reporter got the idea that “Frazee also refuses medical/psychiatric care while in custody.“
New court documents in State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee

Wow this hurts my head ..granted I have a nasty head cold, but since you bring it up, would you mind explaining the significance of PF refusing medical/psychiatric care while in custody?
Thank you

 

[Trudie]

Definitely not a legal expert here, but that’s how I understood that motion, too. As you said, it’s evident in People’s response to it, IMO:

“PEOPLE’S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT’S NOTICE OF INVOCATION OF ALL STATUORY, CASE LAW, AND CONSTITUIONAL PRIVILEGES (P-4)

[SBM]

2. The Defendant has the authority to invoke his medical privilege for ‘all medical and psychiatric, including drug or alcohol treatment privileges.’

3. However, it is the People’s position that the Defendant does not have the right or authority to invoke ‘all privileges in school, military, probation, prison, social services, or other records in which the Defendant has a confidentiality expectation.’

[SBM]”
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/001/P-4 People's Response to Defendant's Notice of Invocation of all Statuory, Case Law, and Constituional Privileges.pdf

From Wikipedia (not the best source, but ...):
“In the law of evidence, a privilege is a rule of evidence that allows the holder of the privilege to refuse to disclose information or provide evidence about a certain subject or to bar such evidence from being disclosed or used in a judicial or other proceeding.”
Privilege (evidence) - Wikipedia

So I’m really not sure where the reporter got the idea that “Frazee also refuses medical/psychiatric care while in custody.“
New court documents in State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee

I think the reporter meant what she reported. She likely has a source that told her he’s not talking!
If you read the CW docs’, you saw the reports from the guard on duty “CW refused his meds tonight”, “spoke to CW twice, dispensed his meds to him”. Every jail has med/counseling available. Maybe not on site 24/7 but on stand-by. County jail ain’t easy for someone never locked up. Much, much tougher than prison. Prison offers programs, hobbies, exercise, jobs & such. A county detention center does not. PF will deteriorate rapidly. No more sunshine, fresh air, wind in his face. Only stagnant, putrid air. It’s a big change for a cowboy to suddenly be caged.

 

[SoVeryMe]

I agree.

She was clearly in shock.

I think that in time, we will learn that she suspected Cowboy Pat from the beginning.

For whatever reason, she decided to keep those suspicions to herself.

It may have been because she wanted to ensure the safety of her grandchild.

I agree, I think they suspected PF from the start and kept KB’s mom somewhat informed for many reasons.

To try and come up with enough evidence to charge PF while remaining low key enough to ensure the babies safety must’ve been a difficult task for LE. Hats off to them for having the patience to play their cards right.

I usually go back and watch videos to look at and compare reactions and behaviors. I can’t in this case....my heart breaks for her....the anguish she must’ve experienced knowing her granddaughter was in his care for weeks.....I hope she finds peace in raising that baby girl.

 

[Trudie]

Wow this hurts my head ..granted I have a nasty head cold, but since you bring it up, would you mind explaining the significance of PF refusing medical/psychiatric care while in custody?
Thank you

There’s none. Only something new to discuss.
Further elaboration: the jail counselor probably introduces himself to each new inmate to discuss how they feel, mainly to determine if an inmate is suicidal. If an inmate expresses “my life is over, I might as well hang myself”, the counselor can summons a doctor or psychiatrist to write an Rx. My guess is the counselor approached him & PF told him “I have nothing to say”. Or, he may have said nothing. He does not have to respond.

 

[riolove77]

OT @PommyMommy thinking about changing my name here to “Pug Daddy” Lol. Is there a way to do that?

Yeah I was thinking about chihuahua mama myself

 

[Marli61]

...I have to admit, I "studied" that photo of the baby looking for signs of PF...I guess that's not a question, his paternity. There have just been so many questions and unknowns from the beginning of this case...

Imo she looks more like him than KB.

 

[1mtroyal]

I listened to the NBC nightly news and thought I heard something about search warrants in Idaho. I finally got to hear the newscast a second time and here is a quote from the newscast: "Sheriffs in Twin Falls Idaho are serving search warrants and collecting evidence near the tower where Kelsey's phone last pinged." Go to https//www.nbcnews.com click onto the US News icon to locate the story. Kind of strange as Gooding is in another county and Twin Falls probably does not have legal authority in another county. The FBI can do whatever it wants.

 

[scdiv]

Another question (to add to my list): Has anyone other than PF stated that he and KB met to perform a mutually consensual exchange of custody of their daughter on November 22nd?

The only source of information regarding PF and KB exchanging custody of their daughter has been exclusively PF, from what I can find. No one aside from PF has stated that the two met for the purpose of exchanging their daughter, although a neighbor reported that s/he saw his truck at KB's townhouse on Thanksgiving day (some time after she shopped at Safeway).

He "told police he last saw [KB] that afternoon when he collected their little girl in a custody exchange," according to a Daily Beast article. USA Today has an article echoing that statement from police, as do many other media outlets.

FOX 21 News (Colorado Springs) reported in an online article that KB dropped her daughter off with PF, but did not provide a drop-off location. A Loveland (Colorado) Reporter-Herald article states that PF told LE that he met with KB that afternoon (Thanksgiving) to "pick up his daughter for a visit." Other media outlets have repeated these statements, as well.

CB has said that KB might have had dinner plans (with PF or not) and possibly Christmas tree shopping plans (with PF or not), but has not - that I can find anywhere - said that KB mentioned swapping the child with PF. Wouldn't that have been part of the content of at least one of the Thanksgiving Day phone calls between CB/KB?

The speculation (unwanted though it may be) here would be: meet for dinner or cinnamon rolls, oh hey, I want to break up with you and I'm going to try to get full custody, the heck you're not, mayhem ensues, bad things happen, baby gets taken and now we have a disappeared mother/daughter/sister.

I just don't even know if any kind of "custody exchange" is truthful. My initial thoughts were that KB really thought she had some kind of dinner plans with PF. Called her mom for a recipe. Went to the store for a few ingredients for some sort of holiday/festive dish. PF comes over with the intent to kill her and she is murdered. He takes the child. He now has to explain why the child is in his possession. Suddenly his story is that they met up so he could take Baby K in a "custody exchange."

But we don't have more info regarding what their relationship was really like up until that point. What had been the norm in the weeks and months leading up to Thanksgiving? Were they a couple or not? Did they get along well? Were they coordinating child care between them like two working parents, or were they sharing custody time and doing handoffs?

 

[Charlot123]

Quite honestly, most LEO are very ethical, with an impeccable moral compass. It could very easily be that his own family helped LEO piece together the timeline and scenario that lead to PF being charged with KB's disappearance.

We don't know the family dynamics of PF's family, but I know this much, usually when one adult child lives at home, without leaving the nest, the others have feelings of disdain and/or jealousy for that sibling.

Do we know if PF is the youngest son?

Yes he is. The attitude of the family? Maybe a mix of both.

According to my own family history.
PGM was a very strong woman who raised two kids, and then a grandchild, my cousin. Having married, the cousin wanted to move away, but soon returned owing to GM's desperate letters. So she, her husband and kids lived with GM. Both her mom and my dad, I suspect, was secretly thankful to her as my old, egocentric grandmother was no gift, but outwardly there was some disdain, especially towards the cousin's husband, ("well, they got everything from her").

At this I understand that had my PGM moved in with my parents, there would have been a divorce, and my aunt would have fared no better.

Ailing parents with independent personalities are often more respected than liked.

 

[Charlot123]

This will sound ridiculous but I only buy meat at the 4-H or FFA auction now. My neighbors and I split a cow and a pig. I thought it would be hard for my kid to do that having seen the animals alive at the fair but she could tell that the kids love the animal they raised and took great care of it. The first time she ate steak from a cow we bought she said, “this steak tastes like it came from a really happy cow.” So maybe you’re right.

My kid used to have a friend, and his family raised own chicken. Nothing wrong, theoretically, as you said, the chicks were raised with love, but I suspect my son and his friends still has some complex feelings about eating barbecued chicken. And one day, the friend said, "I have good news. Do you remember the grey rooster we played with? He has been upgraded to household pet!"

 

[Trudie]

So much of what we read regarding crime is inaccurate. Which, angers me. Idk if the media outlet is sensationalizing facts or maybe the editor dresses the Story???

Example: every night, Ashleigh Banfield reported CW had no books, no commissary, nothing to do but sit alone in his cell. I immediately asked a relative in LE how this could be true. He had never heard of an inmate with no jail infractions treated in such a way & wondered if CW attorney might address it with the jailer or court.
Upon reading the DA case, I stumbled across the notes from the correction officer on duty, 3 per day, iirc. Notes like this: Examples only!!

15:07 checked CW he was talkative, followed my direct orders.

17:09 Observed CW eating his commissary, reading a book provided to him by ________.

Saw one report that said the Lt. on duty even said “he’s not on discipline, he’s allowed to read”.

So, how can the media get things so misconstrued? Ashleigh had it wrong every night but it did amp up her ratings.

**Again, the county jail is merely a holding facility. They are not in biz to “punish” inmates. Most haven’t even been found guilty so minus misbehaving, there’s nothing to punish them for.

Same with prison. The punishment is the length of sentence. The prison can’t dole out extra punishment because of the nature of the crime. Sure, things do happen that COs allow to happen, but infrequently.

 

[crhedBngr]

My kid used to have a friend, and his family raised own chicken. Nothing wrong, theoretically, as you said, the chicks were raised with love, but I suspect my son and his friends still has some complex feelings about eating barbecued chicken. And one day, the friend said, "I have good news. Do you remember the grey rooster we played with? He has been upgraded to household pet!"

Awwww! This makes my day, my week, my month . . . and a good start to a Happy New Year!

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Wow this hurts my head ..granted I have a nasty head cold, but since you bring it up, would you mind explaining the significance of PF refusing medical/psychiatric care while in custody?
Thank you

That, I’m not sure, and I haven’t seen in any of the motions that he is. Bad reporting is the only thing I can think of.

 

[Charlot123]

I think I have this one figured out. The Twin Falls evidence is probably related to the purchase of drywall and/or paint. If they can connect him to that, it also puts him near where her phone pinged. Blood evidence from his vehicle would prove that she was killed and moved in his truck. Blood evidence from her walls would establish the scene of the crime. It's possible that the Twin Falls evidence is tied to an accomplice. Either he sent someone there or had someone accompany him on the trip. That person's cell phone data probably provided evidence that was used to roll over the accomplice. So now there's a witness prepared to testify against him. It's anybody's guess who this witness might be. But I'd put money on it being a low-life. And he probably has access to a lot of those types.

It almost makes no sense to travel to Twin Falls for paint. Too far. I'd go to a Costco or Home Depot in CO, one can use cash there, btw. Much closer. Unless he had a personal friend in ID to visit during the holidays?

But if I were to travel to Twin Falls and did not want to be noticed, I'd definitely use Costco. JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

So much of what we read regarding crime is inaccurate. Which, angers me. Idk if the media outlet is sensationalizing facts or maybe the editor dresses the Story???

Example: every night, Ashleigh Banfield reported CW had no books, no commissary, nothing to do but sit alone in his cell. I immediately asked a relative in LE how this could be true. He had never heard of an inmate with no jail infractions treated in such a way & wondered if CW attorney might address it with the jailer or court.
Upon reading the DA case, I stumbled across the notes from the correction officer on duty, 3 per day, iirc. Notes like this: Examples only!!

15:07 checked CW he was talkative, followed my direct orders.

17:09 Observed CW eating his commissary, reading a book provided to him by ________.

Saw one report that said the Lt. on duty even said “he’s not on discipline, he’s allowed to read”.

So, how can the media get things so misconstrued? Ashleigh had it wrong every night but it did amp up her ratings.

**Again, the county jail is merely a holding facility. They are not in biz to “punish” inmates. Most haven’t even been found guilty so minus misbehaving, there’s nothing to punish them for.

Same with prison. The punishment is the length of sentence. The prison can’t dole out extra punishment because of the nature of the crime. Sure, things do happen that COs allow to happen, but infrequently.

Some outlets love to sensationalize things, from the Daily Mail to Ashleigh Banfield.

It is about ratings, and sensational headlines generate clicks.

This is not a new phenomenon, unfortunately.

The problem here, is that even well respected news organizations have gotten it wrong.

We have limited information to work with, and we’d all love it to be accurate.

Hopefully this changes.