CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #17 *ARREST*

[v0x]

Did you guys catch this? Colleague: Patrick Frazee is professional, a good father

Yup. Resulted in a 10-15 second newsclip on that station with no real new info. Just the cliché “he was a quiet guy” quote basically.

 

[NervousNellie]

i kinda thought the same when i saw news footage of him getting into his truck front door holding the baby. i can't remember ever seeing someone doing that. what i've always seen is the child is secured in a child seat via a different door and then the person gets in the drivers seat. i'm not a parent so i have no personal experience with transporting a toddler via a car so it may happen all the time, i have just never seen it before that news clip.

Sure, in normal circumstances. But he was being followed and hounded by reporters - I think he is going to enter the car once and close the door, and be done interacting with the media. Not walk around to the opposite side of the car, stand outside the car and buckle the kid in, close the door, walk around and get in the driver’s side. All the while he is having questions lobbed at him. He was being efficient about getting away from the reporters. And protecting his child from that madness in the process.

To be clear, I am not a PF fan. I think he is responsible for KB’s death. But I did not think getting in the car with K was strange, given the circumstances.

 

[NanZDrew]

MOO

His possible thoughts when planning disposal:

• His preference would be that she’d never be found
• However, in case the body is discovered one day, it should look like suicide or mishap
• Mutilation would therefore not work
• Burial, similarly, would scream murder. And his door would be the first one the police would come knocking at.
• A field somewhere? Feasible. She could have wandered off and frozen to death (she wouldn’t be the first).
• A steep drop? Better still. In the unlikely event of a body being discovered, something like a broken neck might be consistent with a fall.

This leads me to ask:

• Is there anything else, other than tissue or significant blood loss, that could have indicated the presence of death in her house the night it was searched?

Perhaps heart or

I don’t think he would have staged her death, or been concerned about the condition of her body, in any way.

I think his goal was to make sure she’d never be found, and time will tell if he succeeded.

I get the impression that the reason they believe she is dead, and the reason they believe she was killed in that house, is physical evidence.

This has to be forensic in nature, and I cannot imagine that it’s not blood evidence.

I can’t think of any other type of physical evidence, that would lend itself to this conclusion.

Perhaps tissue in the drain pipe of a vital organ like the brain or heart.

 

[MassGuy]

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[MassGuy]

Perhaps heart or

Perhaps tissue in the drain pipe of a vital organ like the brain or heart.

Any tissue at all would suffice, and I think that scenario is very plausible.

 

[NanZDrew]

Yup. Resulted in a 10-15 second newsclip on that station with no real new info. Just the cliché “he was a quiet guy” quote basically.

But I'm glad that was televised. Hopefully that will prompt LE to interview him. I'd like to know the last time he was seen at Cripple Creek.

 

[otto]

We certainly don’t know enough to say that he killed for a specific reason.

Pregnancy is possible, but I would expect Kelsey’s mother to know, if that was the case.

Something related to custody, possibly preceded by a breakup, is the best motive I can come up with.

Everything else is down the list.

We don't know motive, but men murdering the mother of their children is a common story. The reasons typically stem from money and freedom. Kelsey's life would have been simplified if her daughter was dropped off at a nearby daycare or babysitter. This would have allowed their daughter to socialize regularly with other children - something that matters with a 15 month old child.

This would have cost more, and PF would have been responsible for some costs. Extra expenses reduce freedoms. We don't know that Kelsey was proposing this change, but we do know that she was making changes in her life when she ended the relationship on Nov 22.

 

[Kinetix]

If his motive was custody, I would find it a stretch to believe it stemmed from love of the child. I’d be inclined to think it was driven by his desire to control KB at the point of, and even after, her death.

ETA MOO

I agree. IMO, his motive was “If I can't have you, no one can.” Independence is seen as rejection; physical or emotional distance is viewed as a threat. KB probably grew tired of PF’s shenanigans and neediness, and PF’s worst fears were confirmed that their relationship was over.

 

[SuperTmo]

I really hope I'm wrong about this.
It is possible she didn't say anything to her mother because she was looking for more evidence.
PF is one gigantic red flag in every way.

moo

If he was abusing the baby in any way and she caught him, the evidence would be her body. She seemed to be smart and a good mom. She wouldn’t have let the baby be around him if she was afraid for the baby’s safety. Nope.

 

[otto]

LOL. They need the information for all the unsolved cases, the locations of the bodies that are never found.

I'm not sure what you mean. The study is an analysis of the relationship between murder, residences, and body locations over a 20 year period. Should we ignore the findings because the study excludes information that is not known?

 

[heartgoesout]

I feel the same way. It could be as simple as he was done with the relationship and her, and this was his twisted resolution. I don't really feel that she would have allowed another pregnancy with the relationship status being what it was. First time was most likely an accident. IMO Edited to say that she possibly gave him an ulitmatum and he was happy with the current setup. Soon all will be revealed, I hope. I am glad that things are moving forward and that little Kaylee will finally have some stability and love with Kelsey's family after tomorrow.

Maybe she didn't "allow" it to happen...
Just speculating but he does seem, uh, we'll call it aggressive, but doesn't want another child, like really doesn't want another child.

 

[cluciano63]

We have no evidence that he was doing anything illegal. If that was the case, I would consider that motive, although even then I’d be skeptical.

Custody is the elephant in the room though.

100% think so. Besides...she was seemingly still with him. Unlikely she would be, if she suspected him of something awful enough to encite him to want to kill her, imo.

 

[NanZDrew]

Of course if bones and clothing are found it can most likely be identified. But what I said was some areas hikers do not even go to so if no one ever comes across it well it will never be found. There are such remote areas there.

And to add yes they have definitely kept lots of things very close to the vest,which they should,,because we still no so very little.

This is where a drone would come in hardy.

 

[Jupiter05]

We don't know motive, but men murdering the mother of their children is a common story. The reasons typically stem from money and freedom. Kelsey's life would have been simplified if her daughter was dropped off at a nearby daycare or babysitter. This would have allowed their daughter to socialize regularly with other children - something that matters with a 15 month old child.

This would have cost more, and PF would have been responsible for some costs. Extra expenses reduce freedoms. We don't know that Kelsey was proposing this change, but we do know that she was making changes in her life when she ended the relationship on Nov 22.

Let's add control to that list. I h ave been in fear for my life by a controlling man who thought every male I encountered in my life via my job was a threat. Then add a small mountain town, isolated from family, and his family also being twisted and there you have it. He could not control her and he just could not let it be. He felt he had a right. IMO

 

[CuriousCricket]

The rest of you can take it from here.

In my head, I was composing a lovely response about multi-facets, both bright and darkly lurking --- then thought, nah, not worth the effort. Won't change a single attitude of the all or nothing population.

 

[yawningreyhound]

Even if they’re related, they’re not involved in the case that we’ve seen reported thus far. As such, I believe it’s against TOS to put it out there.

I see. Thanks!

 

[NervousNellie]

Even if they’re related, they’re not involved in the case that we’ve seen reported thus far. As such, I believe it’s against TOS to put it out there.

I agree that it is against TOS. It’s also suggested we not quote posts we believe to be against TOS, as it makes clean up harder for the mods.

 

[SuperTmo]

Reading this made me wonder - has anyone heard anything about video security in her home? Maybe she had an un-obvious means of monitoring her home that was only recently discovered. PF may not have known about it. Maybe they got him on tape? Lordy, I hope so!

Like an Amazon Echo? I sent my sister one for Christmas to use for playing music and she texted, “you got me a spy! Thanks! Now if I ever get murdered there will be a recording!” I was like, “ugh! Don’t joke like that! I read too much Websleuths!”

 

[cluciano63]

I think he invented the break-up to explain his lack of interest and concern over her whereabouts. There seems to be no other sign of a break-up, including from Kelsey to her mom.

 

[v0x]

I agree that it is against TOS. It’s also suggested we not quote posts we believe to be against TOS, as it makes clean up harder for the mods.

Thanks for the info. So is the preferred method, just to click the report button on the OP then?