CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #17 *ARREST*

[Kapua]

I can’t judge his parenting...but I do think he was committed and involved. I don’t see any reason to think he did not want custody, and every reason to think he did.

I was skewered a few threads ago when I suggested that he might be a good father.

 

[NanZDrew]

I've lived in CO over 35 years. But the issue wouldn't be going north if you wanted to keep someone buried in snow but the trick is going UP. The further you go north in CO the lower it is in elevation. Woodland Park is about 8500' Colorado Springs 6500, Denver 5300' and when you get to the northern border of CO it is about 5000' or less. There are some places high that still have snow in July and virtually year round. The trouble is that it is solid rock. We used to climb a 14er every weekend and 1 every month in the winter time and it was not uncommon to see snow on the shaded areas of the peaks that didn't get any sunlight, especially in gullies and draws and such. Not much snow on the Peak now but will probably get a foot of it today, tonight and tomorrow just due to the elevation. If it were me I would dispose on some of the wild forest land within 50 miles of there. You could drive up say 67 towards Cripple Creek and over the edge of the road is 1000' drop or more and too steep to hike unless you climb with a harness and ropes. That would be the lazy way as it is just a matter of tossing out of the car off the edge of the road. A more sure way would be down an abandoned mine. Some of these abandoned mines are so remote it is only gonna be you and Jesus, that is how remote some of these are. People don't understand the vastness and remoteness of some of this area. So much of it has never been hiked as it is just too steep to hike.

Thank you! That makes sense. It is amazing the insight that local people can bring,

 

[Mercedes]

Haaaa. The headline read: “Judge Denies Gag Order...”

EDITOR'S NOTE: This story has been corrected to reflect that a judge has yet to rule on a request to limit pretrial statements in the Frazee case.

What the hell?!

The media better get their you know what together.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/gazett...db1786c2-0894-11e9-b128-eb7367cf87b1.amp.html

Where do these journalists get their ideas?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Colleague: Patrick Frazee is professional, a good father

Interesting article thx.
1) He seems to have been known to take the baby with him while working, some could argue that shows love and attachment, others could argue that show poor decision making in having a small child in proximity of a horse/donkey while being shoed.

2) He came across to some people as professional and dependable.

These 2 things tell me he was more involved in the day to day care of baby K than I first thought. Interesting. Maybe Momma F didn't want/wasn't able to care for the baby more. That could have been a stressor for him.

It doesn't surprise me to hear people use the adjectives professional and dependable to describe PF. I believe he is a loner and his occupation would allow freedom from a set schedule or interaction with others for the most part.

MOO

 

[Best of What's Around]

Colleague: Patrick Frazee is professional, a good father

It always amazes me that we as a society (I am guilty as well) think someone is going above and beyond when they are a good parent and not the mother. If a mother had made sure her baby was warm and took care of her at least 50% of the time, no one would think that was particularly special, IMO. In fact, a woman who has a career and does not take care of her household and children more than 50% of the time can draw criticism for it, as we saw in the Watts case sadly.

 

[MassGuy]

Where do these journalists get their ideas?

I can somewhat understand the errors made in the beginning of this case, when information was both limited, and contradictory.

When you can’t even interpret court documents correctly, that’s a major problem.

 

[Beamer15]

I was skewered a few threads ago when I suggested that he might be a good father.

I agree with you both.

 

[allboys]

I have been wondering if somehow he caught wind of the next door neighbor being out of town, and rushed his plan because of finding out that fact. It’s my understanding that Kelsey lived in a duplex, correct? So, she shared an interior wall and a parking area?

I haven’t been able to find the exact video, but I saw an aerial video of Kelsey’s home. To me, it looked like if PF parked sideways behind Kelsey’s vehicles, and her next door neighbor parked in his/her space, PF could potentially get blocked in. But if PF knew that the neighbor was out of town, he wouldn’t have worried about getting blocked in. (Or having someone hear a murder and body removal, for that matter).

Anyway, just a thought on a potential reason for PF to improvise or change the timing of an existing plan.

MOO

I found the video I referred to in quoted post. ^

About 50 seconds in. Kelsey’s driveway.
Colorado man faces murder charges of his fiancee Kelsey Berreth

 

[NanZDrew]

I know so little about farming and rodeos and all that non city stuff. I have a question about these rodeos he competed in. They interviewed a friend of his who had known him for years. A rodeo guy. This individual gave him positive reviews and knew him quite well--but had never met Kelsey. When someone competes, is it common for family members to attend?

Yes!!! And cheer them on. I would expect this person to have met Kelsey. She liked horses. Why would she not be around his rodeo buddies?

 

[SoVeryMe]

I know so little about farming and rodeos and all that non city stuff. I have a question about these rodeos he competed in. They interviewed a friend of his who had known him for years. A rodeo guy. This individual gave him positive reviews and knew him quite well--but had never met Kelsey. When someone competes, is it common for family members to attend?

That really depends! I would think if it were a big part of PF’s life that KB would go but there may have been reasons she didn’t. I married a city boy who has no interest in coming to horse shows and wouldn’t go to a rodeo. He has been to a couple shows but truthfully it’s eaiser when he doesn’t! With that said, he plays hockey and I go to most of his games. I stick around and chat with his teammates but other wives will come and leave and aren’t as social. Maybe KB went and didn’t chat with people, maybe the times conflicted with her work schedule, maybe he didn’t invite her. If these were people PF knew well, spent a lot of time with and somewhere he took his daughter then I do find it a bit strange if KB didn’t go-ever. But there also could be a variety of reasons she didn’t meet that one specific individual.

 

[soap mama]

“Good” fathers don’t murder their baby’s mother.

 

[SandyQLS]

Good post. I had wondered ig her parents were trying to protect her investment in that townhome. Seems like they had good instincts.

FYI in earlier threads it was determined that the property was purchased by CB & DB, who established a private LLC. KB has no investment in the townhome, the parents own it outright, KB's mortgage is to her parents' LLC.

 

[NanZDrew]

Yes but the problem is lugging a body to the remote area to begin with! Hiking up a mountain with a body is impossible I imagine unless it's cut up and you make several trips, or you have a body disposal buddy.

Or a horse.

 

[Mercedes]

The issue of the gag order request is expected to come up at Frazee's next appearance at 8:30 a.m. Monday in Teller County District Court. Prosecutors are also expected to charge him. In addition to first-degree murder, Frazee also is suspected of soliciting murder, implying that someone else was involved or that Frazee tried to enlist someone in the alleged killing.
Prosecutors fight 'gag order' request in alleged murder of Woodland Park woman

Fight vs. Oppose.

 

[NanZDrew]

Few killers are willing to wait for that kind of delayed gratification.

That’s a hell of a long time.

This looks nothing like that type of crime.

And besides, what did he have to gain right away by doing this?

Full custody of his child, and no child support.

People have killed for a lot less.

So true. And that is usually what gives them away.

 

[jillianelaine]

Yes!!! And cheer them on. I would expect this person to have met Kelsey. She liked horses. Why would she not be around his rodeo buddies?

Thats what I thought. I suppose after 20 years of marriage that might change--they were a young couple. It seemed he'd want to "show off", "show her off" and just be together!

 

[Best of What's Around]

Yes!!! And cheer them on. I would expect this person to have met Kelsey. She liked horses. Why would she not be around his rodeo buddies?

Some animal lovers do not care for rodeos...myself included. The animals are not always treated in ways we would all be comfortable. Likely not the reason she did not attend, however, as I would suspect that if she were of that mindset, she would likely not get involved with someone from that world. But you never know. IMO.

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

Yes but the problem is lugging a body to the remote area to begin with! Hiking up a mountain with a body is impossible I imagine unless it's cut up and you make several trips, or you have a body disposal buddy.

If it is not a designated wilderness area where no motor vehicles are allowed you can drive a 4 wheeler right up to many of those abandoned mines. Remember they mined in those so they had to have a way of getting the minerals out. But if it is an area where no motor vehicles are allowed virtually all of them allow horse travel. It is very rare for a trail not to allow horses in the remote wilderness areas. Horses are extremely sure footed and can run up places we can't walk. And I know for a fact you can get saddlebags so large that a quarter of an elk can fit into. You know how big a quarter of an elk is? They are not hundreds of pounds but I know I have packed out quarters that were 75+ pounds on my back and when you go up a hill you wished it had wheels on it. I have no idea where she is but there are certainly areas where you can get to very easily with a horse that one could hide a body. Then again you would have to spend time in the mountains to know and he might have been too busy playing cowboy to venture out into some of this area. Most of the people out there would be hikers, climbers, backpackers or hunters.

 

[allboys]

Colleague: Patrick Frazee is professional, a good father

“Cline, who serves as president of Cripple Creek’s Two Mile High Club, has gotten to know Frazee in recent years on a professional level. Frazee has provided farrier services to the club, which takes care of a herd of donkeys in Cripple Creek, over the last six to seven years, according to Cline.”

Haven’t many suggested PF would hide KB’s body in an area where he was familiar? Didn’t a local WSer just mention that the Cripple Creek area would be a logical (and closer) place to get rid of the body?

MOO

Edited to add local WSers post: (ugh- I don’t know how to properly link a prior post. Sorry for this mess of a post)

retiredrickyinCO

I've lived in CO over 35 years. But the issue wouldn't be going north if you wanted to keep someone buried in snow but the trick is going UP. The further you go north in CO the lower it is in elevation. Woodland Park is about 8500' Colorado Springs 6500, Denver 5300' and when you get to the northern border of CO it is about 5000' or less. There are some places high that still have snow in July and virtually year round. The trouble is that it is solid rock. We used to climb a 14er every weekend and 1 every month in the winter time and it was not uncommon to see snow on the shaded areas of the peaks that didn't get any sunlight, especially in gullies and draws and such. Not much snow on the Peak now but will probably get a foot of it today, tonight and tomorrow just due to the elevation. If it were me I would dispose on some of the wild forest land within 50 miles of there. You could drive up say 67 towards Cripple Creek and over the edge of the road is 1000' drop or more and too steep to hike unless you climb with a harness and ropes. That would be the lazy way as it is just a matter of tossing out of the car off the edge of the road. A more sure way would be down an abandoned mine. Some of these abandoned mines are so remote it is only gonna be you and Jesus, that is how remote some of these are. People don't understand the vastness and remoteness of some of this area. So much of it has never been hiked as it is just too steep to hike.

 

[LAHOLLA]

“Good” fathers don’t murder their baby’s mother.

Okay, yes. This is what I was coming to say.

I understand the premise that he seemed to be a good father- he seemed to take care of his child, people saw him bringing her to work with him, etc. However, ultimately his child is motherless because of him. That really cancels out anything “good” about his parenting.