CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #18 *ARREST*

[KBB87]

Whatever LE has leads me to believe that PF may have actually acted alone in the end but he did reach out to someone or more than one person to assist with killing Kelsey.

I wonder about the family Thanksgiving plans and if Kelsey was even invited, maybe she was hopeful that she would be included but really was left out. PF may have stopped by to pick the baby up and that was when it all went down...I just have a feeling that Thanksgiving Day plans are what caused this to spiral out of control. JMO

There’s so much we don’t know about the status of their relationship and about his movements that day.

It’s hard for me to come up with any real theory because the possibilities are endless in this case.

 

[MassGuy]

As far as the use of drugs go in homicide cases, they are rare on the whole.

These are stats from 2010-2014.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

It’s far more likely that she died a violent death, as opposed to a drug induced one.

That last search of her property, the one that immediately preceded the announcement that law enforcement believed her to be deceased, goes hand-in-hand with this.

I’m confident they found blood.

 

[gitana1]

The actual crime was considered violent but he may have been soliciting help to avoid a violent death, if you know what I mean. I'm just throwing that out there. Are "right to die" drugs legal in Colorado and Idaho, do you know?

Right to die drugs are only given to terminally ill people as prescribed by an actual doctor who examines and assesses the patient. It's not easy to obtain them.

Euthanasia is legal in CO.

I think the removal of evidence at KB's home and the quick arrest after show that the ultimate murder, no matter what was solicited, was brutal and bloody.

 

[gitana1]

As far as the use of drugs go in homicide cases, they are rare on the whole.

These are stats from 2010-2014.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

It’s far more likely that she died a violent death, as opposed to a drug induced one.

That last search of her property, the one that immediately preceded the announcement that law enforcement believed her to be deceased, goes hand-in-hand with this.

I’m confident they found blood.

Jinx, sort of.

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

It really makes me sad because she seemed like such a sweet soul. She was obviously intelligent to be a pilot and teach pilots, but she seemed like such a modest person who did not need to be receiving attention, but possibly like someone who encouraged others instead.

Just speculation on my part but I totally agree...
I'm not in the camp where they just broke up Thanksgiving Day. I think early on there was a romance but I'm guessing it was rather short lived and KB just decided to cut her losses and get out early. She just seems to be smart enough to know when it is a bad deal. She probably wasn't real forthcoming with her family and they still assumed she was engaged to this big time rancher in the mountains of CO. She had to have seen he was barely getting by and I'm sure she had doubts she was gonna change her cowboy who is still living with his mother. I think she was too smart for that and decided this relationship was not in her best interest. I don't think she feared him as he still played the role of Mr Mom. But I am guessing it was over shortly after it started. I see one pic of them together and Baby K is an infant (is that the right word?). I don't see any pics of them together and would certainly expect that in the first couple years of their relationship as that is the time you can't keep your hands off one another. This is MOO as nobody knows - purely speculation on my part.

 

[Nudgee]

Looking at the footage from two interviews and a press conference, CB doesn’t say anything about that. The reporters say it, and I think it’s from a press release.

The closest she comes to talking about KB’s plans for later that day is, “There was the possibility of going out to dinner.”
PF had been non-comittal about holiday plans. Or did she say that because she didn’t want to admit yet that the relationship was making her sad. Or was she going out with, say, colleagues as she wasn’t welcome at/didn’t want to go to The Ranch.

Agree @Mimi in London ....that is one thing that bothers me most. Was PF picking up Baby K a scheduled thing with KB, or did he just say he was picking up the baby as an after fact. I don't think we will ever know.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

I agree with your possible scenario except for the part about "something he found unacceptable" happening. This was a premeditated crime according to the charges. He had asked someone to help him murder her. I think it's possible KB had asked PF to stop by and watch baby K while she showered and got ready to go out with them. Then PF might have attacked her (or taken the baby away and had someone else attack her) while she was in the shower.

Another clue that KB's mom might have inadvertently given was that she seemed to avoid mentioning the clothes KB was wearing. The reporter mentioned the store video and asked what she noticed-- trying to get CB to say if people should be looking for KB in the clothing she had on at the store. But CB seems to avoid talking about the clothes-- she mentions her hair and Baby K being in the car seat indicating how strong KB was instead. I wonder if avoiding mentioning the clothes is an indication the clothes KB wore to the store were found in her home. MOO.

No doubt this is a pre-planned crime especially with the solicitation charge. However, I'm wondering if a disagreement didn't happen between the two of them or another scenario that he didn't like which suddenly turned this crime into an opportunity crime. In other words, his switch flipped. And when and where was she where she would be most vulnerable? The bathroom...in the shower.
Having a narcissist in the family, the question was asked if they cry. My experience has been yes....when they find it clearly in their favor. No, when they are on the attack and see they are hurting you. Charming when you are unaware of how they are, downright evil mean when they flip and you arent playing nice to the rules of their game. Put them in the grand manipulator catagory. IMHO MOO MOO MOO

 

[KBB87]

Forgive me if I'm a little slow on the uptake. I just finished 3 days with my 7 year old twin grandsons and I fear they've passed on their cold. I'm fried Why would his brother be named in the arrest warrant and what about PF's arrest would put him in any danger?

No, I meant a separate third party that was cooperating with law enforcement may have been in danger if their name became public knowledge.

The Crystal Rogers case is what came to mind for me. IIRC, the brother of her boyfriend was a police officer who was fired for interfering in the investigation and then he became a suspect in her disappearance as well.

ETA: I don’t know how to get across the point I’m trying to make without violating the TOS lol I think PF having someone near and dear to him in law enforcement could put someone snitching on PF in danger.

 

[gitana1]

A question for one of the lawyers here would be if giving out KBs schedule, key, etc. would be enough for the solicitation of murder charge. If it would, I would not rule out him asking a friend or family member vs a professional.

If coupled with an actual request that they kill her, yes.

 

[Concernedmamaof3]

Just speculation on my part but I totally agree...
I'm not in the camp where they just broke up Thanksgiving Day. I think early on there was a romance but I'm guessing it was rather short lived and KB just decided to cut her losses and get out early. She just seems to be smart enough to know when it is a bad deal. She probably wasn't real forthcoming with her family and they still assumed she was engaged to this big time rancher in the mountains of CO. She had to have seen he was barely getting by and I'm sure she had doubts she was gonna change her cowboy who is still living with his mother. I think she was too smart for that and decided this relationship was not in her best interest. I don't think she feared him as he still played the role of Mr Mom. But I am guessing it was over shortly after it started. I see one pic of them together and Baby K is an infant (is that the right word?). I don't see any pics of them together and would certainly expect that in the first couple years of their relationship as that is the time you can't keep your hands off one another. This is MOO as nobody knows - purely speculation on my part.

The only thing about this that has me doubting the veracity is that there are reports from neighbors that CB visited often. I just don’t think KB and PF would be able to fake a “loving relationship”, as CB described. I truly think the break up and switching custody stories were lies coming from PF to account for why he never reported her missing.

 

[otto]

As far as the use of drugs go in homicide cases, they are rare on the whole.

These are stats from 2010-2014.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

It’s far more likely that she died a violent death, as opposed to a drug induced one.

That last search of her property, the one that immediately preceded the announcement that law enforcement believed her to be deceased, goes hand-in-hand with this.

I’m confident they found blood.

Many, but not all, domestic homicides are over-kill in the sense that there are far more injuries than necessary to end life.

 

[riolove77]

I think some of us are giving him too much credit, what with elaborate plans and right to die drugs and all that. I think when all is said and done, it will be simple: he no longer wanted her around, but wanted the baby, but didn't want to pay child support to her or deal with her in general. So he thought, well I'll get rid of her, and get someone to do it, and what do you know? Thanksgiving - I'll be with family so they'll all be my alibi that I wasn't around when she vanished.

Except to get Baby K, he had to place himself at the home anyway, and I think he just wanted to get it done and over with, and took care of it himself. Perhaps the person he solicited has finally come forward and told what they know, and that's why their physical safety is important. PF is behind bars, but his family/friends/supporters aren't. In this situation, he is the only one responsible, the other person is not culpable, and the solicitation charge will stick as it.

In an alternate scenario, he came and took the baby, someone else came after and committed the crime and cleanup. Thus he thought he was home free and hence his smug demeanor. Maybe this person is now cooperating, and the solicitation charge will be dropped for a conspiracy charged if/when the person is charged with murder. I find this to be the less likely scenario though, as I just don't believe the actual murderer would not have been charged yet.

Ultimately, my opinion is that he asked someone and took a step towards it (solicitation), but the person did not go through with it, so he did it himself. He cleaned it up. Maybe in the bathroom. That's why a cursory search would not have yielded anything. Maybe search #2 involved luminol and taking apart the shower drain. Any significant amount of blood, or brain matter/tissue, would lead them to conclude she is no longer alive.

Bottom line, he's going down. Not a chance in hell he's going to get away with this, body or no body.

 

[BRRI]

A legitimate hitman probably goes through with the hit.

sometimes, sometimes it is a money grab, or a police set up... and in theory, they could have gone through with it, since we don't know much. But, I just don't get the sense of him being criminally savvy enough to even know how to find a true hitman.

 

[MassGuy]

Many, but not all, domestic homicides are over-kill in the sense that there are far more injuries than necessary to end life.

Exactly. I think it’s quite probable that was the case here.

Extreme violence is a telltale sign of a crime being personal in nature.

This was certainly personal.

 

[BRRI]

Not sure that is soliciting so much as conspiring? But we shall see. I feel like the charge sounds very specific, as in offering money to do a crime. I guess that could be a friend...but sounds more like finding some shady **** who will do anything for money. But of course his internet history may show he browsed “hit men” for all we know.

Yes ,I think he legitimately asked/offered money to someone he knew, vs a hitman on dark web or something similar. Or, maybe he was given the name of someone to contact for it, but I don't think he would have been "involved" enough in criminal circles to know what to do. It's not like you log into the dark web and click "hire a hitman". Maybe he researched it, but I doubt it

 

[Love Never Fails]

As far as the use of drugs go in homicide cases, they are rare on the whole.

These are stats from 2010-2014.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

It’s far more likely that she died a violent death, as opposed to a drug induced one.

That last search of her property, the one that immediately preceded the announcement that law enforcement believed her to be deceased, goes hand-in-hand with this.

I’m confident they found blood.

I really like your posts as you seem to logically look at the situation at hand. I suppose when someone plans murder, they aren’t thinking of making it an easy death (if there is such a thing). I think PF held a grudge against KB and he didn’t mind violence. Sounds like blood evidence to me as well.

 

[bestill]

As far as the use of drugs go in homicide cases, they are rare on the whole.

These are stats from 2010-2014.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

It’s far more likely that she died a violent death, as opposed to a drug induced one.

That last search of her property, the one that immediately preceded the announcement that law enforcement believed her to be deceased, goes hand-in-hand with this.

I’m confident they found blood.

Right to die drugs are only given to terminally ill people as prescribed by an actual doctor who examines and assesses the patient. It's not easy to obtain them.

Euthanasia is legal in CO.

I think the removal of evidence at KB's home and the quick arrest after show that the ultimate murder, no matter what was solicited, was brutal and bloody.

I agree with both of you. My point is he may have been soliciting someone to help with drugs to kill her but had no success in the end killed her in her house.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Jinx, sort of.

Yep x 3

 

[Curious Guy]

Once again, I am reminded of the Fred Tokars case in Atlanta. His wife wanted a divorce and custody of the kids. I believe that she told her husband that she would blow the whistle on his drug dealing which would cost him his license to practice law and probably a jail sentence. He then hired someone to kill her.

Times were tough for PF. Maybe he turned to illegal activities to make money.

Remember that case well as I was living close to ATL at the time. He was laundering money and she found out about it. He was also living the high life and had numerous side pieces. Beautiful Mom with 2 young boys. Also. her family fought hard for justice RIP Sara

 

[tmar]

Something about the Frazee family feels off to me, and has since the beginning. There is definitely something deeper going on that we are not privvy to. Alarms bells have been going off, and I wait for something sincere and compassionate to be coming from that side and there is nothing. Just more confusing behavior that makes me beleive there is something disturbing there. Something deeper. IMO

Could the Frazee Clan be keeping quiet, all knowing of PF's temper?
His harsh treatment of animals, with him losing his temper when they don't perform is an example.
Possibly they believe PF lost his temper with Kelsey, and don't wish loss of temper, be found as evidence.
MOO.