CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #18 *ARREST*

[NanZDrew]

Is that a backdrop or real? I can't tell on my phone.

It looked real to me.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think some of us are giving him too much credit, what with elaborate plans and right to die drugs and all that. I think when all is said and done, it will be simple: he no longer wanted her around, but wanted the baby, but didn't want to pay child support to her or deal with her in general. So he thought, well I'll get rid of her, and get someone to do it, and what do you know? Thanksgiving - I'll be with family so they'll all be my alibi that I wasn't around when she vanished.

Except to get Baby K, he had to place himself at the home anyway, and I think he just wanted to get it done and over with, and took care of it himself. Perhaps the person he solicited has finally come forward and told what they know, and that's why their physical safety is important. PF is behind bars, but his family/friends/supporters aren't. In this situation, he is the only one responsible, the other person is not culpable, and the solicitation charge will stick as it.

In an alternate scenario, he came and took the baby, someone else came after and committed the crime and cleanup. Thus he thought he was home free and hence his smug demeanor. Maybe this person is now cooperating, and the solicitation charge will be dropped for a conspiracy charged if/when the person is charged with murder. I find this to be the less likely scenario though, as I just don't believe the actual murderer would not have been charged yet.

Ultimately, my opinion is that he asked someone and took a step towards it (solicitation), but the person did not go through with it, so he did it himself. He cleaned it up. Maybe in the bathroom. That's why a cursory search would not have yielded anything. Maybe search #2 involved luminol and taking apart the shower drain. Any significant amount of blood, or brain matter/tissue, would lead them to conclude she is no longer alive.

Bottom line, he's going down. Not a chance in hell he's going to get away with this, body or no body.

^ THIS ^

 

[MassGuy]

Yes ,I think he legitimately asked/offered money to someone he knew, vs a hitman on dark web or something similar. Or, maybe he was given the name of someone to contact for it, but I don't think he would have been "involved" enough in criminal circles to know what to do. It's not like you log into the dark web and click "hire a hitman". Maybe he researched it, but I doubt it

Exactly. This isn’t the movies, and there aren’t groups of hitmen just waiting for a phone call.

This is usually a hilariously sloppy sort of thing, seriousness aside.

Some moron ends up accepting money for a hit, doesn’t do it, or gets caught immediately after.

He testifies against the solicitor, and they both end up serving life sentences.

It rarely works out.

He did this himself, the murder part atleast.

 

[PommyMommy]

Daniela Leon on Twitter
Family of #kelseyberreth has issued a message on Facebook. Saying it has been an emotional time for them.

 

[riolove77]

O/T @MassGuy, I just finished Michelle McNamara's book today, and the very last line of the book I was like wow, where have I seen that quote before...? You!

 

[MassGuy]

O/T @MassGuy, I just finished Michelle McNamara's book today, and the very last line of the book I was like wow, where have I seen that quote before...? You!

Haaaaa. I love that line, well obviously.

Just a shame she didn’t live long enough to see it come to fruition.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Haaaaa. I love that line, well obviously.

And it still gives me goosebumps every time I read it! God I wish she could have held on long enough to see that "thing" arrested.

 

[MsBetsy]

pentobarbital or secobarbital.

Ok, so barbiturates. Something tells me he wouldn't have been that merciful. Imo

 

[susiQ]

No doubt this is a pre-planned crime especially with the solicitation charge. However, I'm wondering if a disagreement didn't happen between the two of them or another scenario that he didn't like which suddenly turned this crime into an opportunity crime. In other words, his switch flipped. And when and where was she where she would be most vulnerable? The bathroom...in the shower.
Having a narcissist in the family, the question was asked if they cry. My experience has been yes....when they find it clearly in their favor. No, when they are on the attack and see they are hurting you. Charming when you are unaware of how they are, downright evil mean when they flip and you arent playing nice to the rules of their game. Put them in the grand manipulator catagory. IMHO MOO MOO MOO

Oh yes. Sorry to say, my ex DIL. After our son passed away of cancer, I came across lots of info on narcissists. He was separated from his ex for two 1/2 years before he died and she made his life a living hell. I had no idea until then, why or how this came about. At that point I also realized our son was an empath. The women he brought home always raised an eyebrow. He always wanted to help them, comfort them, make them feel better, or give them a better family life. Sadly, sometimes you just can't fix broken no matter how much you wish you could. I often feel it had something to do with the breakup of my own marriage and the emotional abuse he witnessed. Don't know for sure.

 

[NanZDrew]

Just speculation on my part but I totally agree...
I'm not in the camp where they just broke up Thanksgiving Day. I think early on there was a romance but I'm guessing it was rather short lived and KB just decided to cut her losses and get out early. She just seems to be smart enough to know when it is a bad deal. She probably wasn't real forthcoming with her family and they still assumed she was engaged to this big time rancher in the mountains of CO. She had to have seen he was barely getting by and I'm sure she had doubts she was gonna change her cowboy who is still living with his mother. I think she was too smart for that and decided this relationship was not in her best interest. I don't think she feared him as he still played the role of Mr Mom. But I am guessing it was over shortly after it started. I see one pic of them together and Baby K is an infant (is that the right word?). I don't see any pics of them together and would certainly expect that in the first couple years of their relationship as that is the time you can't keep your hands off one another. This is MOO as nobody knows - purely speculation on my part.

I agree 100% with every word you said. Often kids that like to please their parents will sugar coat things some as far as relationships go, because they either don't want to disappoint their parents or they don't want to worry them. It is especially embarrassing if your family warned you about pulling up roots and following a virtual stranger to another state, but you felt so sure about them, that you threw your usual good sense to the wind and followed your heart only to have it blow up in your face.

 

[susiQ]

No, I meant a separate third party that was cooperating with law enforcement may have been in danger if their name became public knowledge.

The Crystal Rogers case is what came to mind for me. IIRC, the brother of her boyfriend was a police officer who was fired for interfering in the investigation and then he became a suspect in her disappearance as well.

ETA: I don’t know how to get across the point I’m trying to make without violating the TOS lol I think PF having someone near and dear to him in law enforcement could put someone snitching on PF in danger.

Oh, I get your point. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[NanZDrew]

No doubt this is a pre-planned crime especially with the solicitation charge. However, I'm wondering if a disagreement didn't happen between the two of them or another scenario that he didn't like which suddenly turned this crime into an opportunity crime. In other words, his switch flipped. And when and where was she where she would be most vulnerable? The bathroom...in the shower.
Having a narcissist in the family, the question was asked if they cry. My experience has been yes....when they find it clearly in their favor. No, when they are on the attack and see they are hurting you. Charming when you are unaware of how they are, downright evil mean when they flip and you arent playing nice to the rules of their game. Put them in the grand manipulator catagory. IMHO MOO MOO MOO

This. 100% true description of a narcissist

 

[riolove77]

Haaaaa. I love that line, well obviously.

Just a shame she didn’t live long enough to see it come to fruition.

Complete shame.

 

[Trudie]

I think some of us are giving him too much credit, what with elaborate plans and right to die drugs and all that. I think when all is said and done, it will be simple: he no longer wanted her around, but wanted the baby, but didn't want to pay child support to her or deal with her in general. So he thought, well I'll get rid of her, and get someone to do it, and what do you know? Thanksgiving - I'll be with family so they'll all be my alibi that I wasn't around when she vanished.

Except to get Baby K, he had to place himself at the home anyway, and I think he just wanted to get it done and over with, and took care of it himself. Perhaps the person he solicited has finally come forward and told what they know, and that's why their physical safety is important. PF is behind bars, but his family/friends/supporters aren't. In this situation, he is the only one responsible, the other person is not culpable, and the solicitation charge will stick as it.

In an alternate scenario, he came and took the baby, someone else came after and committed the crime and cleanup. Thus he thought he was home free and hence his smug demeanor. Maybe this person is now cooperating, and the solicitation charge will be dropped for a conspiracy charged if/when the person is charged with murder. I find this to be the less likely scenario though, as I just don't believe the actual murderer would not have been charged yet.

Ultimately, my opinion is that he asked someone and took a step towards it (solicitation), but the person did not go through with it, so he did it himself. He cleaned it up. Maybe in the bathroom. That's why a cursory search would not have yielded anything. Maybe search #2 involved luminol and taking apart the shower drain. Any significant amount of blood, or brain matter/tissue, would lead them to conclude she is no longer alive.

Bottom line, he's going down. Not a chance in hell he's going to get away with this, body or no body.

I so agree. We see the same crimes, day after day after day. Little changes. Maybe manner of death or cover up. But, no elaborate schemes. Just “I’m sick & tired of her/this/that & by George, I’m killing her”, IMO.
These guys feel entitled to live a life of freedom, no responsibilities, they yearn for a care free existence.
But, women & children bring things to a screeching halt.

IMO, PF had a great gig. Prob’ few financial obligations (house, utilities, food prob paid by Ma F) and could rip and run. If K was seeking a formal custody agreement, he prob’ feared support. If Knwas considering daycare, the expense of that prob’ irked him. Why pay if mom can watch her???

 

[BRRI]

Exactly. This isn’t the movies, and there aren’t groups of hitmen just waiting for a phone call.

This is usually a hilariously sloppy sort of thing, seriousness aside.

Some moron ends up accepting money for a hit, doesn’t do it, or gets caught immediately after.

He testifies against the solicitor, and they both end up serving life sentences.

It rarely works out.

He did this himself, the murder part atleast.

Yes, you need to know what you are doing, and that's more than just searching Google to figure it out. First, you have to know how to navigate dark web correctly. Then, you have to find an area for this type of hiring, that is trustworthy. If you find one, usually they would want to be paid to offshore accounts/wires, which also means there are likely 5 times as many scammer hitmen out there compared to real ones. Then you have to know how to evade LE undercover "hitmen". I highly doubt he was capable of any of that. He asked someone he knew, or an acquaintance. Which then throws all "hitman" protocol out the window - helping to clean up, conceal the weapon, etc.

 

[riolove77]

And it still gives me goosebumps every time I read it! God I wish she could have held on long enough to see that "thing" arrested.

Me too! I'm from Sacramento originally and know people who lived only blocks from him. So it was HUGE news in my hometown. Looking forward to following the case. But anyway, don't want to derail this thread.

 

[BRRI]

I think some of us are giving him too much credit, what with elaborate plans and right to die drugs and all that. I think when all is said and done, it will be simple: he no longer wanted her around, but wanted the baby, but didn't want to pay child support to her or deal with her in general. So he thought, well I'll get rid of her, and get someone to do it, and what do you know? Thanksgiving - I'll be with family so they'll all be my alibi that I wasn't around when she vanished.

Except to get Baby K, he had to place himself at the home anyway, and I think he just wanted to get it done and over with, and took care of it himself. Perhaps the person he solicited has finally come forward and told what they know, and that's why their physical safety is important. PF is behind bars, but his family/friends/supporters aren't. In this situation, he is the only one responsible, the other person is not culpable, and the solicitation charge will stick as it.

In an alternate scenario, he came and took the baby, someone else came after and committed the crime and cleanup. Thus he thought he was home free and hence his smug demeanor. Maybe this person is now cooperating, and the solicitation charge will be dropped for a conspiracy charged if/when the person is charged with murder. I find this to be the less likely scenario though, as I just don't believe the actual murderer would not have been charged yet.

Ultimately, my opinion is that he asked someone and took a step towards it (solicitation), but the person did not go through with it, so he did it himself. He cleaned it up. Maybe in the bathroom. That's why a cursory search would not have yielded anything. Maybe search #2 involved luminol and taking apart the shower drain. Any significant amount of blood, or brain matter/tissue, would lead them to conclude she is no longer alive.

Bottom line, he's going down. Not a chance in hell he's going to get away with this, body or no body.

Totally agree. I don't think that this will wind up being a complex situation in the end. We will likely hear of a girlfriend in the picture, because there always seems to be one. But other than that, I don't think this will be an off-the-wall kind of case.

 

[riolove77]

I so agree. We see the same crimes, day after day after day. Little changes. Maybe manner of death or cover up. But, no elaborate schemes. Just “I’m sick & tired of her/this/that & by George, I’m killing her”, IMO.
These guys feel entitled to live a life of freedom, no responsibilities, they yearn for a care free existence.
But, women & children bring things to a screeching halt.

IMO, PF had a great gig. Prob’ few financial obligations (house, utilities, food prob paid by Ma F) and could rip and run. If K was seeking a formal custody agreement, he prob’ feared support. If Knwas considering daycare, the expense of that prob’ irked him. Why pay if mom can watch her???

Precisely. I also think we're giving him too much credit for NOT killing Baby K! I think perhaps because of the horror of CW's case, it's like "phew, well at least this one let the baby live..." but the reality is, there is Josh Powell and that's all you have to know. Thank God this wasn't allowed to potentially get there.

 

[Jupiter05]

Could the Frazee Clan be keeping quiet, all knowing of PF's temper?
His harsh treatment of animals, with him losing his temper when they don't perform is an example.
Possibly they believe PF lost his temper with Kelsey, and don't wish loss of temper, be found as evidence.
MOO.

Looking at the face of his mother, I was left with a bad feeling. He learned his behavior from someone.

 

[gitana1]

Agree @Mimi in London ....that is one thing that bothers me most. Was PF picking up Baby K a scheduled thing with KB, or did he just say he was picking up the baby as an after fact. I don't think we will ever know.

The cell records may tell us.