CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #20 *ARREST*

[tmar]

And didn't the rush of searching really start after PF made the dump run and LE confiscated some of his 'stuff' from the dump?
Seems to me everything started to fall into place after that.
Were 1 or 2 of his dump buddies involved?

Possibly there were items in the dump dump involved in the clean up of Kelsey's home: rags, cleaning material, blood remnants found.
If as mentioned, there was painting, then paint tins matching the colours at Kelseys home.
MOO.

 

[allboys]

Depends on who the witness is, though. We've all assumed it was the person he solicited, or someone who helped him in some fashion either by killing her or by cleaning up. But it may be someone closer to him, a family member or a client or someone close to Kelsey. We've also assumed that the only solicitation for murder was for Kelsey, maybe it wasn't, maybe he had others he wanted gone too. JMO, but I really do believe there is so much more to this story.

Your post made me think of the Ohio family (victims- Rhoden Family) murder case, allegedly rooting over custody.

Since many of us here suspect custody was PF’s motive, I thought I’d share some quotes from this linked article that could possibly apply to PF. Obviously, we have no proof over custody motive, so this is only speculation on what might have been at play regarding PF’s actions and is MOO.

- “It is absolutely common in domestic violence that if somebody, an abuser, loses control over his victim and his children, then he will do whatever he can to regain that control.”

- “Murders over child custody, though, are fueled by rage and an overpowering need to exercise ultimate control.”

- “But in these cases, particularly in the year after the relationship ends, that’s when you have your highest risk of your murder occurring over custody or visitation. Or over the simple fact that a woman left.”

- Child custody, she said, is a war for control in which anger is ammunition. “When there’s domestic violence, that’s an abuser’s mindset: You are my property. I get to control you. You can’t go away from me. You can’t take my children away from me.”

- That anger blinds adults, he said. “People become so wrapped up in controlling one another that they completely lose sight that there’s a child involved.”

Also mentioned in this article are the costs associated with custody court cases.

While it seems that PF was planning this murder for quite a while, I think it’s interesting to notice the date that most articles came out about this particular murder-for-custody case was on Nov. 13th...9 days before Kelsey’s alleged murder. MOO


Pike County, Ohio, murders: Custody cases often fuel anger, but massacre boggles experts

 

[Ultra Violet]

I don’t think it is out of line to suppress details about the case to protect witnesses and the investigation, even though PF is currently behind bars.

It has been a few years but there was a witness murdered just before a heavily publicized court proceeding in the Denver / Aurora area when the guilty party was behind bars.

Back in 2011, there was a pretty gruesome double murder about 30 minutes north of the Springs (an hour from Woodland Park) where an ex-husband contracted a murder while incarcerated. Not the same exact situation, but still horrifying to everyone in the area.

While not common, these things can still happen, why not err on the side of caution?

GUILTY - CO - Amara Wells, 39, & Bob Rafferty, 49, die in contract killing, 23 Feb 2011

 

[crhedBngr]

Here Here. thank You.

for anyone interested in criminals' minds and how and why they
end up being criminals, read up on the latest studies.

For narcissists....."Deprivation and Rejection by early objects
(persons) provide the framework for narcissistic disturbances in
homicidal adolescents."

IMO, these boys were emotionally neglected, probably raised
themselves with little parental involvement, did not receive
the time or attention from parent(s) and never learned to
be good citizens.

RBBM

Agreed, 100%. Adding to this, their primary caregivers provided monetary support to make up for their lack of care giving. In PF's case, he was living with Mommy.

I've run into other narcissists whose parents bought them homes and other comforts, thus enabling their bad behavior.

JMVHO.

 

[tmar]

Just a thought, MOO...

Charge #3 of murder during the commission of a robbery doesn’t really jive with other actions taken by somebody — the week off from work text, the cell phone ping, and the claim by PF that she said she was going to see an ailing relative. It was never meant to look like a crime scene, it was meant to look like she left. So, IMO, whatever constitutes the basis of LE’s robbery charge was the forceful taking from her of something no one was ever supposed to find out about. So what could that be?

And note the difference between a charge of robbery, “forcefully taking something of value from the person or presence of someone by threat or intimidation”, and aggravated robbery (not charged) which includes, among other things, simply being armed with a deadly weapon and displaying the intent to use it, even if they don’t.

I think that charge may allude to the likely manner of her death. I.e., not caused with a deadly weapon.

Again, MOO...

The robbery may be connected to Kelsey's bank details: to obtain her phone, password, bank account etc.
Was Kelsey's bank account emptied?.
MOO.

 

[InvSmith]

Maybe the witnesses are in danger from the unknown 3rd party (not PF) if they are helping LE get him. I wonder if LE knows who the person is but can't find him?

It is possible but I would think it would become a federal case. I haven't seen any issuance of safety alerts/risks. Just my thoughts. I was under the impression on Nancy Grace that one was female, his current girlfriend. One of the worst characteristics of informants or witnesses are they can be the ones the tell who they are. In general, this why it is hard to promise protection or privacy. I have not seen any orders of formal witness protection. Now, it would not surprise me at all if drugs enter into this somehow with sometimes happening. I hope they have them all.

 

[MsBetsy]

It can be trying. I remember having to go out to the store, hadn't showered in two days, my hair was wound in a bun, no makeup, mismatched socks and as I was paying I noticed a large trail of dried spit up from my shoulder to my navel. Sigh.
So she looked very well pulled together from my perspective.

Two months after I had my baby I went to work with a different sandal on each foot. (They were slip-ons and it was dark that morning)

 

[crhedBngr]

This is the first I'm reading that the relationship ended one year ago (according to PF as told to an acquaintance). And a tad more insight into how PF was perceived...
Murder charges filed against man in case of missing Colorado mom - CNN
(Sorry if already posted)

Yep. "Well regarded" by those who saw his exterior behavior only. "Kept to himself, but could hold a conversation." (I am paraphrasing the above-linked article.) Smoke and mirrors.

Until something happened that PF could not control, and he showed his true character.

 

[tmar]

New here to commenting. I have been keeping up with the posts. Is it possible her computer was taken? A computer would possibly had lots of info. her searches, emails etc.

Welcome seasky.
Kelsey's computer would certainly have loads of info for LE.
Possibly even dating back, to initial 'hook up' with PF, and how this relationship progressed.

 

[MsBetsy]

BBM, that does make sense. If something was missing there would be no way to tell if it happened recently or months ago. But to know that something was stolen at the time of her murder, means someone must have seen something and reported it. Either a witness or maybe someone who happened to be there and saw it through the window.

Or it could that the phone (and purse) was given to a witness who was told to get rid of it and that's one way they can connect him to the crime. Jmo

 

[LAHOLLA]

Think maybe they took one of her debit or credit cards to try to make it look like she was paying for ubers/cabs/etc.?

I feel like we would have heard that unless LE suspected him right away and withheld any info gleaned from tracking her bank accounts.

ETA- I realize her purse was missing. I guess I mean used one of her cards beyond just taking them.

 

[MassGuy]

Or it could that the phone (and purse) was given to a witness who was told to get rid of it and that's one way they can connect him to the crime. Jmo

Yup.

He robbed her of her cell phone and purse, killing her in the process, thus committing “felony murder.”

Obviously this scenario isn’t what actually happened, as he didn’t really plan a robbery that escalated to murder.

But that would explain the charge.

Good safety net.

 

[The Saint]

Happy New Year, everyone. Patrick sure put on the little boy act during his hearing, "Who me?" His demeanor was at odds with the snarling voice he used with his dogs (see his youtube videos). I wonder if he talked to KB like he did those poor dogs.

 

[allboys]

So true! And what distinguishes these from "personal stories" is that it has been suggested there was something amiss that morning with KB, based on her appearance, and I was thinking she looked put together and perky, despite her busy morning, cooking, etc. and being alone with a toddler.

I think CB mentioned KB’s hair for the same reason she mentioned other things about KB. She wanted people to know that the events after she last spoke to KB on Thanksgiving were NOT normal. Not normal for her to disappear etc.

While we heard her comment about KB’s hair in a media interview, I’m sure it was one of many things she told LE early on, to let them know to take this case seriously. Some relevant (no history of disappearing), some not so much (her hair at Safeway).

I imagine there is an element of pure desperation when a family member finds a loved one is missing. (Especially 10 days after the fact!)

With PF not raising alarm bells to LE regarding KB’s absence, it was CB’s job to think of anything and EVERYTHING to let LE know that something was very wrong, and KB being missing had to be taken very seriously. After all, she was making up for lost time.

MOO

 

[allboys]

Two months after I had my baby I went to work with a different sandal on each foot. (They were slip-ons and it was dark that morning)

SAME!! Except I was heading into Costco. And once I realized my mistake, my husband and MIL made me go in anyway. We still laugh about it. My babies were not good sleepers. It’s amazing I never did worse in my “zombie” days...

 

[crhedBngr]

SAME!! Except I was heading into Costco. And once I realized my mistake, my husband and MIL made me go in anyway. We still laugh about it. My babies were not good sleepers. It’s amazing I never did worse in my “zombie” days...

LOL. Not to derail the thread, but I've seen people at work with two different shoes. Women wearing black heels, but one shoe had a higher heel than the other shoe. I've done this myself several times, and I've worn my pullover tops inside out and sometimes backwards. (I was told that if you caught said mistake before noon, you got "extra points" for putting your shirt on the correct way.)

Praying Kelsey is found soon, so her family can have a bit of closure.

 

[SandyQLS]

The robbery may be connected to Kelsey's bank details: to obtain her phone, password, bank account etc.
Was Kelsey's bank account emptied?.
MOO.

Friday 11/23 was definitely not a bank holiday. Banks can only be closed for three consecutive days per law.

Interesting idea. Maybe there were withdrawals along the route to ID.

 

[Jessthinkin]

I think CB mentioned KB’s hair for the same reason she mentioned other things about KB. She wanted people to know that the events after she last spoke to KB on Thanksgiving were NOT normal. Not normal for her to disappear etc.

While we heard her comment about KB’s hair in a media interview, I’m sure it was one of many things she told LE early on, to let them know to take this case seriously. Some relevant (no history of disappearing), some not so much (her hair at Safeway).

I imagine there is an element of pure desperation when a family member finds a loved one is missing. (Especially 10 days after the fact!)

With PF not raising alarm bells to LE regarding KB’s absence, it was CB’s job to think of anything and EVERYTHING to let LE know that something was very wrong, and KB being missing had to be taken very seriously. After all, she was making up for lost time.

MOO

Agree, and I wasn't criticizing CB, far from it.....my opinion of her couldn't be any higher..... my observation that a busy morning, alone with a toddler, could result in a low maintenance hairdo was in response to comments here that suggested that KB's hair in a bun, in and of itself, meant something untoward....

 

[Steelhead]

Found this: Florrisant Fire Protection District (facebook)
Nov. 24, 2018
TCSO- Due to high winds burn restrictions are in effect until further notice. No open burning.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't think PF could care less about whether burning was permitted, or not.

 

[Concernedmamaof3]

Actually there's at least three:
1. he told T that they broke up 1/2018
2. he told someone that then told KB's aunt that they broke up on 11/22/2018
3. through his attorney, he stated the relationship was good

Didn’t he also tell the guy who ran the place with the donkeys (forgot his name and place) that she would run off without contact and leave him with the baby often too? And potentially told family stories about her drug use?

Personally, I think the misinformation was coming from him in preparation for her murder/disappearance. I think a lot was to be able to distance himself from her eventual murder. I do not think she had any clue any of this was going on. MOO

But what about planning to make a murder look like a robbery and it is in fact a robbery because you take something- cellphone, money, atm card, credit card. Maybe someone used her credit card out in Idaho to make it look like she was there. No info was ever given by police about any banking info, credit cards etc. Maybe there is something there and they are holding it tight to their chest- or maybe none of that was touched.

My understanding is that these charges require prosecutors to prove the robbery occurred FIRST. Meaning they must have some proof PF didn’t murder KB and then steal her phone/purse.