CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #20 *ARREST*

[riolove77]

I think one solicited party transported the phone. PF possibly had drafted texts to be sent from ID.

If they had no part in the murder, but knew about it when they transported the phone and knew of the purpose of the transport, that would be accessory after the fact to murder 1.

 

[Ultra Violet]

Kelsey Berreth's fiance arrested and charged with her murder

This is a pretty well done clip. Definitely worth listening too imo.

i agree, that was a great clip, thanks for sharing. Lots of good info that was explained very well.

It has likely been mentioned here in KB’s discussion threads before but I think it is worth repeating what the legal expert mentions in the clip:

85% of murders are committed by a person that knows the decedent.

MOO!

 

[Love Never Fails]

Baby K was born in Oct 2017 so Kelsey wouldn't have been pregnant before moving to Colorado in 2016. I think you've described PF perfectly.
MOO

I read it wrong somewhere. Thought they met in 2016 and she moved to CO in 2017. I can’t keep up with the fast moving threads. Sorry. But yeah, I don’t think he ever did anything with his money but spend it on himself. I think Mom took care of him completely. And he needed to make sure he kept the baby for mom and stayed in her good graces.

 

[1&2&3]

Okay, so pre-trial publicity has been limited.

The next question is how impartial is a jury going to be when PF is from a family of several law enforcement people?

How well known is his family in the area the jurors will be pulled from? What kind of reputation does the family have? Well known, mixed with the town folk, involved in community activities etc., or took care of their farm and kept to themselves?

There certainly have not been many peers speaking out about him. But then it has been about fourteen years since high school, people come and go, people leave the area, and I can understand why anyone with recent knowledge of PF would not speak out because they don’t want to get involved. Probably what they know is second or third hand, so it is not too reliable to LE. JMO.

Where are prior girlfriends of PF? Has LE talked with them and not releasing their names or the information that they have been spoken to?

 

[OldLadyBlues]

Custody papers were not filed before KB died. That was bad reporting.

Thanks PommyMommy and Love! I was all over timelines and articles on custody and the only thing I could find was the bad reporting. Wouldn't I just love a retraction website somewhere? Oh, if only the world ran the way I wanted it to. LOL!....

 

[jaspermac]

Really. It seems confirmed to September. But, what was he thinking & for how long before soliciting? Omg, he must have hated her. Why could he just not tell her so & walk away.

Thats what i see underlying this too. A seething hate. Sure maybe custody, control, child support were there in the background, but I think it was ultimately the sickness that lies inside of him that caused that depth of hate. Women probably meant very little to him, even his mom. His mom, was a means to an end. Be good to her and you get what you want. Other than that I don't think this guy was capable of real love, or real emotion besides hate, not if you can premediate such a violent end to someone you know so well and who is the mother of your child. JMO

 

[enelram]

Why would witnesses feel so threatened if PF is behind bars? Because he can order another hit? Because people he know will intimidate and retaliate? Because he might not be in jail long and will go after them himself?

I'm not really seeing why a witness in this particular case would need to go into a protection program. I can totally understand a witness going into voluntary seclusion to avoid the press and gossip...but to go into an official police protection program? Is PF that powerful? IDK about that.

JMOpinion

Yes, even incarcerated people have friends on the outside
willing to help those in prison. It's more common than
most realize.
when you're facing a life in prison I guess it's worth the
risk to arrange other murder(s).
The case near me involved 4 men who did a home invasion.
They were all caught. 3 of them agreed to be witnesses
against the mastermind. The mastermind arranged a
shooting of all 3, one was killed, 2 were shot and left for dead, but survived. This was the week before trial.

 

[Mom24]

Maybe for his Mother’s love of the child.

I see it this way.... he met KB online, had a few hookups (as he always did), she got pregnant, he asked her to move to CO and helped her move. But she didn’t realize he is a Mamas boy. His mom owns everything. He is a playboy who takes care of the cattle and horses and the ranch. He loves rodeo. Loves playing the field. But Mom pays all the bills. KB realized this and bought her own townhouse as she decided he would never leave his easy life with mom. She may have decided it was time to move on with her life. PF couldn’t allow her to take the baby away from his mom. He didn’t care about pleasing KB or growing up and being a man. He only had to look good for moms sake.
Custody. That’s how I see it now.

Okay, that makes sense. I just don't see Patrick being a devoted dad.

 

[Charlot123]

Maybe he didn't want to go to court to fight for custody and didn't want to pay child support.

Either because he's a control freak/bully or he couldn't afford it. Maybe he wanted to teach her a "lesson".

When I watch true crime docs and Forensic Files I'm always boggled at the people who think its easier to murder than get a divorce -- and they actually think they can get AWAY with killing. Divorce is rough but its the only decent, moral thing to do. So many MORE lives are ruined through murder than divorce.
smh

MOO

Many divorces are expensive and lengthy, but surely paying the divorce attorney is cheaper than ending up paying criminal attorney's fees.

 

[tmar]

Baby K was born in Oct 2017 so Kelsey wouldn't have been pregnant before moving to Colorado in 2016. I think you've described PF perfectly.
MOO

During Kelsey's move to be closer to PF, she wasn't pregnant, probably still 'in love' with PF.
Over time, she realized PF was mamma's boy, not a 'good catch', and perhaps Kelsey had plans now, with her daughter, to move on.
PF had other thoughts, and acted on them, having plans in action for quite sometime.
He wanted the child, as loved by himself and his mother.
MOO.

 

[MassGuy]

Many divorces are expensive and lengthy, but surely paying the divorce attorney is cheaper than ending up paying criminal attorney's fees.

Or paying the price of your freedom.

These morons never learn.

 

[jaspermac]

Okay, so pre-trial publicity has been limited.

The next question is how impartial is a jury going to be when PF is from a family of several law enforcement people?

How well known is his family in the area the jurors will be pulled from? What kind of reputation does the family have? Well known, mixed with the town folk, involved in community activities etc., or took care of their farm and kept to themselves?

There certainly have not been many peers speaking out about him. But then it has been about fourteen years since high school, people come and go, people leave the area, and I can understand why anyone with recent knowledge of PF would not speak out because they don’t want to get involved. Probably what they know is second or third hand, so it is not too reliable to LE. JMO.

Where are prior girlfriends of PF? Has LE talked with them and not releasing their names or the information that they have been spoken to?

If I had to guess, they will talk when this case is all wrapped up. Right now the loose ends are not tied up and I bet LE has interviewed them and asked them to not speak. Also, when no other information is being released and you are the only one talking the media will be all over you like sharks. That would be hard.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

My understanding is that @gitana1 responded to this issue and cleared up that the custody case was not initiated before KB’s disappearance, nor by KB herself.... has that understanding changed? If it has, then I do agree that adds to motive...

I was wrong, Jess. Thank you for correcting me!

 

[Inthedetails]

Yes, even incarcerated people have friends on the outside
willing to help those in prison. It's more common than
most realize.
when you're facing a life in prison I guess it's worth the
risk to arrange other murder(s).
The case near me involved 4 men who did a home invasion.
They were all caught. 3 of them agreed to be witnesses
against the mastermind. The mastermind arranged a
shooting of all 3, one was killed, 2 were shot and left for dead, but survived. This was the week before trial.

Just seems like something career criminals do - like that is part of the lifestyle, where PF doesn't seem like he's lead a life of crime.

JMO

 

[Mercedes]

Okay, so pre-trial publicity has been limited.

The next question is how impartial is a jury going to be when PF is from a family of several law enforcement people?

How well known is his family in the area the jurors will be pulled from? What kind of reputation does the family have? Well known, mixed with the town folk, involved in community activities etc., or took care of their farm and kept to themselves?

There certainly have not been many peers speaking out about him. But then it has been about fourteen years since high school, people come and go, people leave the area, and I can understand why anyone with recent knowledge of PF would not speak out because they don’t want to get involved. Probably what they know is second or third hand, so it is not too reliable to LE. JMO.

Where are prior girlfriends of PF? Has LE talked with them and not releasing their names or the information that they have been spoken to?

If pre-trial publicity has been limited, I surely missed that!
So much going on today.

 

[Trudie]

In your hypothetical, how would LE know Bob was solicited?

What if PF gave someone a tangible item, maybe a horse trailer, a saddle or something, as payment, to dispose of body & phone. They would likely face charges?
Not to be critical or stereotype anyone.....but I’ve lived the non pro rodeo circuit. My analogy— Woodstock with horses! A lot of transients, homeless cowboys, living in horse trailers, going from town to town, catching work here & there.
Tysm

 

[Love Never Fails]

Many divorces are expensive and lengthy, but surely paying the divorce attorney is cheaper than ending up paying criminal attorney's fees.

If only criminals thought things through......

 

[Mercedes]

Excellent question. Typically, no.

Except for some exceptions under federal law, one is generally not required to report knowledge of a crime before it takes place. The only exception to this would be if you were aiding an abetting, in which case that would be the charge. For that to happen, though, the person would need to know of the plan, know it's illegal, and encourage the plan with the intention that the crime take place. So in your hypo, Bob would not have done any of these things.

It seems so sad to say it, because in that situation, Bob could potentially have prevented the murder. But he has no legal duty to do so.

And, in the hypothetical, LE wouldn’t know Bob was solicited.
I do agree that morally, he had a duty.

 

[Mercedes]

What if PF gave someone a tangible item, maybe a horse trailer, a saddle or something, as payment, to dispose of body & phone. They would likely face charges?
Not to be critical or stereotype anyone.....but I’ve lived the non pro rodeo circuit. My analogy— Woodstock with horses! A lot of transients, homeless cowboys, living in horse trailers, going from town to town, catching work here & there.
Tysm

Sure, if they got rid of of the body and phone.
But not if they did not and reported it to LE.

 

[jaspermac]

He could theoretically be convicted of robbery and murder. I don't think they're going to charge him with robbery though. They have enough to put him away for life.

Edited to clarify: in order to get a conviction under the felony murder theory, they're going to have to show the robbery happened anyway; in other words, if they cannot prove that the robbery took place, they can't get a conviction under FM, since robbery is their underlying theory for the FM charge.

So this is probably why they are putting the two theories forward. With the solicitation charges they must have some good evidence and that would support First Degree Murder ( along with evidence of murder tied to him obviously). But if they have information that this was set up as an attempted robbery but don't have all the pieces to support it yet, they would have to file First Degree Murder on its on to protect the case. Maybe they will be able to put all the pieces together for Felony murder, or maybe it will be a bit weaker and they will stick with First Degree Murder. Or can they put both charges at trial and have a jury rule on both? It seems to me you can convict on Felony Murder and it would still be First Degree Murder or you can convict on First Degree Murder but not have enough evidence to convict on Felony murder. But I'm not a lawyer.