CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #20 *ARREST*

[mustloveco]

Why didn't he burn his trash instead of taking it to the dump?

Burn bans perhaps.? We don't like fires here. At KB memorial, there was no open flames for candles

 

[makayla]

Based on what we’ve learned from the press conferences, I am fairly confident they have enough physical evidence taken from KB’s home. I don’t believe they would have announced that she was murdered in her house unless they had evidence to back it up. I also believe they have digital proof from the phone. So many of these murderers are not as smart as they think they are ... their arrogance never ceases to amaze me. I can’t wait to see the case unfold so we can learn all his missteps.

 

[Noharg]

I keep thinking that in this case surely there is another motive, but then I remind myself of CW who killed his wife instead of divorcing her and did not spare his children. The reality of how he bare-handedly killed each one and then disposed of them is horrifying. As several have expressed, it is impossible to understand the mindset of murderers like CW and (IMO) PF. It is so hard to sit back in our bewilderment and wait for LE to untangle this tragedy. This case is particularly frustrating to me because KB and PF had so little SM presence and as has been mentioned, no one really close to either is commenting. The warrant is sealed and we are left with a wait-and-see situation. It is exasperating to us who like to solve things.
Just my morning muse and MOO.

 

[jaspermac]

I wonder if it is touch DNA for consumptive testing. Both Kelsey and Patrick’s DNA would be found at her house normally. So it would make sense if they were looking for a 3rd party match they have in mind. I’m in the camp that it was a non- bloody death. Touch dna testing from what I read is very small amounts and would be consumptive. Maybe they were removing multiple surface areas and objects from her home that may have been touched.

Sadly I think without LE having found a significant amount of blood (probably through luminol), it would be hard for them to be able to say all of a sudden (after the last search of her home) that is likely she was deceased. That doesn't preclude touch DNA though.

 

[enelram]

I don't think he loves his Mom, probably hates her because she has a tight hold on him and won't let him go. MOO.

We really don't know who was 'dependent on who' here.
Maybe PF was so immature and irresponsible that he didn't want to leave the nest. Maybe all his discretionary income he could
spend on himself and momma paid the bills, utilities, groceries.
At her age and with her physical problems she may have liked
the security of his still living there. We just don't know.
Could be a bit of both though.

 

[makayla]

Many years ago there was an interesting book written by
a psychologist called:
"Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love them"
The author discussed this personality type as someone
who "needs" women for his own purposes, uses but really
can't stand the women. He doesn't take well to correction, criticsm or disagreement from the women. When he's
crossed, it's not pretty.
They NEED Women but HATE them.

I remember that book! I agree, I think PF probably resents his own mother and no doubt resented KB for getting pregnant and being a successful woman. If it should ever be proven that KB was pregnant again, that would really have put him over the edge. I wonder if he thought he could control little K, since he couldn’t control his mother or KB?

 

[Esma]

Sadly I think without LE having found a significant amount of blood (probably through luminol), it would be hard for them to be able to say all of a sudden (after the last search of her home) that is likely she was deceased. That doesn't preclude touch DNA though.

It would seem to me that if blood were present it would have been discovered on the first search. Wouldn’t luminol testing be basic 101 detective work? Why would they wait a week to use that tool? It’s interesting that the big search and haul out came likely when they discovered 3rd party involvement.

 

[enelram]

I'm curious to know more about his past, and the family dynamics, especially during his childhood. There has been no mention of his father. I'm wondering if he was even around during his childhood. Maybe he was out of the picture and his mother formed an unhealthy bond with the youngest child. Imo

I wonder too. So often in these cases we see an absentee father,
single mother or if two parents, they're both so busy working
that the kids are neglected emotionally and/or physically.
I've seen it even in 2 parent families where the parents don't get along and should be divorced but still live together and the
children suffer.
Usually family dynamics DO play a large part in these cases.

 

[MsBetsy]

I remember that book! I agree, I think PF probably resents his own mother and no doubt resented KB for getting pregnant and being a successful woman. If it should ever be proven that KB was pregnant again, that would really have put him over the edge. I wonder if he thought he could control little K, since he couldn’t control his mother or KB?

I think he may have tried to control everyone around him he felt superior to. Women, children, and animals may fall into that category.

 

[NanZDrew]

Burn bans perhaps.? We don't like fires here. At KB memorial, there was no open flames for candles

Burn ban is most likely, and a fresh ashes would be a huge red flag. Burning during a burn ban would probably brought LE in to visit really soon.

 

[NanZDrew]

Sadly I think without LE having found a significant amount of blood (probably through luminol), it would be hard for them to be able to say all of a sudden (after the last search of her home) that is likely she was deceased. That doesn't preclude touch DNA though.

Or brain tissue in the shower drain.

 

[enelram]

It would seem to me that if blood were present it would have been discovered on the first search. Wouldn’t luminol testing be basic 101 detective work? Why would they wait a week to use that tool? It’s interesting that the big search and haul out came likely when they discovered 3rd party involvement.

And didn't the rush of searching really start after PF made the dump run and LE confiscated some of his 'stuff' from the dump?
Seems to me everything started to fall into place after that.
Were 1 or 2 of his dump buddies involved?

 

[jaspermac]

I don't think he loves his Mom, probably hates her because she has a tight hold on him and won't let him go. MOO.

I don't think he is capable of loving anyone, he just acts it out for his own needs. I feel incredibly sorry for his mother. She has lost KB too, and will lose her son and maybe her granddaughter. We are all so desperate for answers as to why, probably hoping that if we know why it is less likely to ever happen again. But in our search for why, people get blamed for PF's behavior. Like his mom. This is not meant to be directed at you, you made a tiny little comment. It is more the ongoing suppositions about SF (her relationship with KB, her mothering skills etc) In many cases there is "no mommy dearest", just another sad destroyed family. Just because she lives with him, doesn't mean she has a tight hold on him. It could be that he is the one who won't let go. She may not see it, because he manipulates and is good to her, acts like he loves her. She does have other children, who are independent, have good jobs. Maybe we will find out differently but in the meantime, why look to people that we don't know, who are in pain as well, to blame. Right now I am sure SF is in shock, probably doesn't believer PF could be the one. She hasn't seen the evidence, so I get that. Anyway, I speak from experience. I watched as my cousins husbands family struggled through dealing with their son's actions. We were hurt, angry, in shock, so worried for the children, but we didn't blame his family. His pathology came from somewhere else. I don't know what it is but maybe some damaged gene in there that creates a sociopath.

 

[otto]

Burn ban is most likely, and a fresh ashes would be a huge red flag. Burning during a burn ban would probably brought LE in to visit really soon.

I was just looking at the Teller Country burn regulations site and didn't see anything about a burn ban on contained fires at the end of November.

Rather than speculate, if someone has a link to support the claim that there was a burn ban, please share.

 

[jaspermac]

Based on what we’ve learned from the press conferences, I am fairly confident they have enough physical evidence taken from KB’s home. I don’t believe they would have announced that she was murdered in her house unless they had evidence to back it up. I also believe they have digital proof from the phone. So many of these murderers are not as smart as they think they are ... their arrogance never ceases to amaze me. I can’t wait to see the case unfold so we can learn all his missteps.

I agree 100 percent. LE said alot of their evidence came from cell phones.

 

[Mom24]

Sadly I think without LE having found a significant amount of blood (probably through luminol), it would be hard for them to be able to say all of a sudden (after the last search of her home) that is likely she was deceased. That doesn't preclude touch DNA though.

Warning:graphic.
Finding brain matter would be definitive proof that someone was gone. Finding tissue, even small amounts, that is consistent with the heart would be proof. Even something as small as bone consistent with the spine or a type of tissue consistent with an ligament would clearly represent an injury that would have had to be fatal. My guess is, because they came to the conclusion so quickly, that it was copious amounts of blood.

 

[Mom24]

I was just looking at the Teller Country burn regulations site and didn't see anything about a burn ban on contained fires at the end of November.

Rather than speculate, if someone has a link to support the claim that there was a burn ban, please share.

Do they require a burn permit?

 

[skyedaze]

So just wondering...what types of samples could be this consumptive DNA? I could see it being a hair...it would have to be a hair that has zero business being where it was found...like a 3rd party hair between sheets on her bed, or her bloody hair on a horse tool. Maybe tiny bit of skin/tissue in his truck that can't be there without the owner being severely injured?? Third party finger prints, on her phone? Someone's blood on the ceiling...like that would not normally get there. Maybe they found something of her's at that dump and it has someone's hair on it that she had never met but who is all over PFs cell records? Maybe someone else's blood on her phone?

It has to be something that has zero business being where it was found. Just wondering what it could be.

 

[jaspermac]

Warning:graphic.
Finding brain matter would be definitive proof that someone was gone. Finding tissue, even small amounts, that is consistent with the heart would be proof. Even something as small as bone consistent with the spine or a type of tissue consistent with an ligament would clearly represent an injury that would have had to be fatal. My guess is, because they came to the conclusion so quickly, that it was copious amounts of blood.

Totally agree with you, but brain matter and bone fragments come blood, which you can't completely clean up. I was just commenting to the previous poster that I don't think this was an "unmessy death". Highly unlikely it was strangulation etc due to how they came to the announcement of presumed dead.

 

[enelram]

I was just looking at the Teller Country burn regulations site and didn't see anything about a burn ban on contained fires at the end of November.

Rather than speculate, if someone has a link to support the claim that there was a burn ban, please share.

Here you go: there is a burn regulation ongoing and no burning
of rubbish or household trash.
Teller County Office of Emergency Management