CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #20 *ARREST*

[jaspermac]

It just occurred to me with her purse being missing if money was withdrawn from her bank account? If that might play into the robbery theory.

 

[otto]

Do they require a burn permit?

I have no idea. What I know is that bodies can be destroyed in a burn barrel, and that I am unable to find any burn ban restrictions in Teller County at the end of November.

Speculation about burn bans can be easily cleared up by finding a link to the ban. I'm unable to find it, so it looks like there was no burn restrictions at that time. Maybe someone else can find information to support the speculation that there was a burn ban in place at that time.

 

[jaspermac]

Here you go: there is a burn regulation ongoing and no burning
of rubbish or household trash.
Teller County Office of Emergency Management

 

[ludakristen]

Warning:graphic.
Finding brain matter would be definitive proof that someone was gone. Finding tissue, even small amounts, that is consistent with the heart would be proof. Even something as small as bone consistent with the spine or a type of tissue consistent with an ligament would clearly represent an injury that would have had to be fatal. My guess is, because they came to the conclusion so quickly, that it was copious amounts of blood.

It's also possible they found digital evidence (text messages) alluding to or discussing disposal of her body. That would be pretty definitive as well.

 

[otto]

Here you go: there is a burn regulation ongoing and no burning
of rubbish or household trash.
Teller County Office of Emergency Management

That explains what it is, not that it was in place in November.

 

[jaspermac]

It's also possible they found digital evidence (text messages) alluding to or discussing disposal of her body. That would be pretty definitive as well.

True, I think we are basing our speculation on watching the last search of the home, pretty much live as it was happening. At night. And seeing large flat pieces of material being carried out of her home. It leads to thoughts of luminol, blood spatter evidence etc. Which leads to a certain direction about how she passed. And why LE were able to all of a sudden presume her death. That doesn't mean they also didn't find digital evidence as well.

 

[jaspermac]

That explains what it is, not that it was in place in November.

Teller County, Colorado - Official Site for Teller County Government
go back one page (ie link above) and in small print it says burn restrictions in place. Although I personally would be confused by it. If you click on it, it takes you to the page that describes what it means. That still doesn't tell us if it was in effect in NOv though

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree 100 percent. LE said alot of their evidence came from cell phones.

Didn't the judge mention something about there being over a thousand text messages? I have to watch that again, I was sitting in a car waiting for my daughter when I saw it but I remember there was mention of a lot of text and email messages as evidence. That should be very interesting. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

That explains what it is, not that it was in place in November.

All I could find is that the ban was effective Dec 21. Due to high winds. What was the weather like around Thanksgiving?

 

[Seattle1]

I was just looking at the Teller Country burn regulations site and didn't see anything about a burn ban on contained fires at the end of November.

Rather than speculate, if someone has a link to support the claim that there was a burn ban, please share.

Teller County Office of Emergency Management
Seeking lifted and/or No "burn ban" specific to Thanksgiving is futile effort (especially given the wind known to area during winter months). Burn bans are the norm in the county, and are pretty much in effect unless lifted by resolution approved by the Teller County Board of County Commissioners. I see no evidence of ban lifted since August 2018 following recent rain storms, and it didn't last long.
Burn restrictions lifted in Teller County

 

[CrimeAddict]

I am not sure a murderer trying to despose of evidence and/or a body would care about a fire ban. He had a lot of land and his neighbors possibly did not care or see if he was burning something.. especially if it was middle of night.. super cold outside no one would have seen him do it. I think they did find something in that big ol ditch they were digging in.

 

[Mom24]

Here you go: there is a burn regulation ongoing and no burning
of rubbish or household trash.
Teller County Office of Emergency Management

Yes, from what I remember they required burn permits as well. I came from an area where you could burn at will, but we got shut down while having a bonfire on someone's private property. The fire dept was there within minutes and they told us that we needed a fire permit in order to have any fires, even a small pit fire. Again, this was decades ago, but I'm assuming not much has changed.

 

[enelram]

That explains what it is, not that it was in place in November.

Found this: Florrisant Fire Protection District (facebook)
Nov. 24, 2018
TCSO- Due to high winds burn restrictions are in effect until further notice. No open burning.

 

[SuziQ]

It strikes me as very sad that things went wrong early in the relationship. If they only met via online dating in 2016, by January 2017 she was pregnant and the baby was born in October 2017. Within 11 months of the baby's birth PF was soliciting people to murder her - and he did so 3 times?

It suggests that getting pregnant happened way too soon before they had really got to know each other properly and that having the baby was what sealed Kelsey's fate. Otherwise there would have been no reason to kill her. They could both have walked away. Sorry - of course, I believe both could have walked away anyway - there was no need to murder her - and maybe she was planning to do so and he couldn't stomach that.

The points that strike me are:
- why solicit someone to kill her - hugely risky, and to attempt it 3 times? Have I understood that correctly? If so, that's mad. The chances of being found out were ridiculous once he involved others.
- the motive was either child custody - to prevent the baby being taken out of state or financial, to get some life insurance
- I think a girlfriend was involved and potentially took the phone to ID to help cover up and buy time with a story that she'd left - but surely her car and truck not having left her property were huge hindrances to that story - as well as the cinnamon buns? (Which by the way, I think might have still been in the oven or left cooling in a cold oven, which could be why he overlooked them).
- but if a girlfriend (or other person) took the purse and phone to Idaho - does that mean they were involved in her death - or where were they when she was killed? Since no one else has been charged it suggests not, but its rather odd to thing this person was just hanging around or available to take it there. At least some collusion and calpability for being involved.
- I think he must have done a very good clear up job and I'm imagining the only evidence the LE have right now is a small bit of DNA for the consumptive tests, text or phone records, the purse and phone plus a witness (or three) who were solicited. However, the lack of DNA suggests a non-bloody death maybe? For example, strangling or blows, rather than a gun or knife?

I am so sorry for Kelsey, for her little child and for her family. JMO - apologies if I've misunderstood anything or made too many assumptions.

PF was hell bent on having Kelsey murdered. And planned it out for months. I really feel this was financial.

 

[Aydrianna523]

It just occurred to me with her purse being missing if money was withdrawn from her bank account? If that might play into the robbery theory.

As normal I can't catch up. How about theft of her phone?

 

[enelram]

I am not sure a murderer trying to despose of evidence and/or a body would care about a fire ban. He had a lot of land and his neighbors possibly did not care or see if he was burning something.. especially if it was middle of night.. super cold outside no one would have seen him do it. I think they did find something in that big ol ditch they were digging in.

absolutely agree with you.

 

[Esma]

I'm thinking we may see some arrest warrants before his appearance in court Friday, now that the defense has seen the arrest affidavits. Just a hunch that they need to act soon.

 

[Aydrianna523]

True, I think we are basing our speculation on watching the last search of the home, pretty much live as it was happening. At night. And seeing large flat pieces of material being carried out of her home. It leads to thoughts of luminol, blood spatter evidence etc. Which leads to a certain direction about how she passed. And why LE were able to all of a sudden presume her death. That doesn't mean they also didn't find digital evidence as well.

I was thinking blood splatter as well.
Just sad.

 

[PommyMommy]

Didn't the judge mention something about there being over a thousand text messages? I have to watch that again, I was sitting in a car waiting for my daughter when I saw it but I remember there was mention of a lot of text and email messages as evidence. That should be very interesting. Imo

I think the judge was referring to LE notes, texts, etc. She said she would issue an order which would be D1. That would be in response to the defense motion filed on 12/21 (BBM) :

MOTION FOR PRESERVATION AND PRODUCTION OF LAW ENFORCEMENT NOTES, RECORDINGS, AND OTHER EVIDENCE [D-001]
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user.../MTN for Preservation PD Notes Recordings.pdf

 

[Aydrianna523]

-no body:

That won't be a problem with the jury if they can prove there was a murder, and explain where the body is.

There is speculation that the body was put in an incinerator. If that is true, then the fact there is no body will not be a problem at trial.

- a consumptive DNA test:

I don't see why that is considered a problem. That happens quite often, when a crime scene was cleaned, but tiny fragments of forensic evidence is found in cracks and crevices.

That is a good thing, not a bad thing, imo. If it is brain matter, it may negate the need to show a dead body to prove there was a murder, for example.

- two competing theories of murder:

They are not really 'competing.' They are very similar, in that it involves the same killer and same victim, involved in the same killing, in the same place and same time.

- had to enter KB townhome 3 separate times:

And? How many times would one expect the detectives and forensics teams to visit the crime scene? I'd expect at least 3, if not more.

As they investigate and interview witnesses, more questions and ideas emerge. That's a natural process.

- delaying tactics, eg, won't unseal probable cause AW:

I don't think it is all that unusual, in cases where others may be involved as accomplices or involved witnesses.


I don't see Swiss Cheese. I see a soufflé, still being cooked, not ready to be revealed yet...

I'm behind as usual. So this was obviously discussed It does make sense that on a big farm/ranch you'd have access to disposal of a body like that.