CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #20 *ARREST*

[allboys]

Hi, WSers. I’m trying desperately to catch up after some family travel.

I’ve been stewing over the “robbery.”

Something just popped in my head. It is probably too far fetched, but then again, who knows what kinds of plans someone who solicits murder, will try to come up with.

CB said she was surprised that Kelsey’s hair was not done before going to Safeway. Suggesting that something, in CB’s mind, appeared “off” in KB’s routine.

We have not seen footage of Kelsey coming out of the store. In the scenario I’m offering, POSSIBLY someone was waiting for her. (Or even with her).

I went to the Woodland Park Safeway website, and listed under Services: Bank- Wells Fargo.

Safeway at 1101 E US Hwy 24 Woodland Park, CO| Weekly Ad, Grocery, Pharmacy

(Hypothetically) What if PF or accomplice threatened Kelsey at gunpoint (or other), if she did not go to Safeway (Bank) and withdrawal a large sum of money? Threatened her life and/or Baby K’s if she were to signal for any kind of help in the store.

This withdrawal could serve multiple purposes.

By Kelsey withdrawing a large some of money before “disappearing,” it adds to the picture that PF seemed to be painting, that Kelsey willingly skipped town.

The large sum could also be used to pay the solicitee or any other accomplices. PF himself, may have needed the money to help cover up his crime.

It would only be KB on camera at the ATM (assuming it was just a Wells Fargo ATM, not full service bank - esp. due to holiday).

To my knowledge, we have never heard anything from LE about KB’s last credit card or bank activity before or after disappearance. Possibly, they withheld this info. for good reason.

We have seen crimes before, where someone is threatened in their home, and is instructed to go make a withdrawal, and on delivering the money back at home, is subsequently killed.

In this scenario, why would she go to Safeway ATM vs. drive thru ATM? I guess that would depend on whether the perp was with/near/watching her. If she had freedom to choose, obviously Safeway would buy her more visibility. Or, PF thought her getting money and certain items at store would be more “proof” that Kelsey willingly left town. Who knows? Maybe this was the only ATM KB used in the past...

As far as how the rest went down, there are many possibilities. But I just wanted to offer a new “robbery” theory. (Apologies if this has already been theoried- I am still catching up on threads).

Thoughts? Way too far fetched? Possibility?

MOO

ETA- Western Union is also listed under services at that Safeway. I’ve never used the “cash back” option when paying by credit card. But that too (if requested by perp), could have make it look more like KB is preparing for a trip.

I guess the reason this theory I mentioned above ^ is most unlikely, is that it would be adding too much unnecessary risk. I suppose it would only be possible if PF really needed the money (even just $400), and if KB and PF’s relationship was at a point where he couldn’t have just asked for the money. Plus, any unexplained withdrawals by PF himself, could raise suspicion if someone he solicited ever “talked.”

I don’t know, but this robbery (as part of 1st degree murder charge) is just making me scratch my head a little. But maybe there is a fairly simple explanation for it... (phone, wallet)

I tend to overthink things when I’m missing a lot of details.

 

[bestill]

ITA about him being over her, but did she really know how bad their 'relationship' whatever it was had become? He could have been scheming all of this behind her back. I wish I knew if she had any idea what was really happening?

I really don't think she did. She bought a house in the summer and she was still letting her family think everything was fine with them, or so it appears. I would love to find out that she did know and she had evidence of something that will help put him away for ever.

 

[Snow Flower]

This is the first I'm reading that the relationship ended one year ago (according to PF as told to an acquaintance). And a tad more insight into how PF was perceived...
Murder charges filed against man in case of missing Colorado mom - CNN
(Sorry if already posted)

Wow, if this article is correct they had been broken up since New Year’s Day 2018. Almost a year. What then could have been a motive? Child support? I hate to say it but without a body they better have a lot of decent DNA to rely on. That and good reliable witnesses regarding him soliciting KBs murder.

 

[girlhasnoname]

It’s not possible she knew he had been plotting to murder her for almost 3 months, IMO. Even if the relationship had degraded to the lowest point possible, she would’ve gone to the police and refused access to baby k if she thought her life was in danger. She had a child to protect and from the little we know of her, Kelsey would do what’s best for her baby. Imo

I agree, by all accounts Kelsey was a responsible, caring woman and loving mother. I think she also had enough determination, self confidence and moral compass that she would have shut him down quick if something hinky was going on.

 

[1mtroyal]

I feel like everybody knows something but me . Did they find something other than <allegedly> her phone in Idaho? Or it could be my flu fog

The news piece from Twin Falls Idaho said they were helpful in generating search warrants (presumably in Idaho). Of course all of these warrants might have only involved the phone.

 

[mustloveco]

Didn't one of Kelsey's neighbors state she often saw his truck there overnight? I'd have to look through. Hard to state the answer to the dairy farm without breaking TOS, but let's just say that if hypothetically the LS owns a dairy farm, then he would lease a bull from someone for his cows, and LS stated that he leased a bull from Frazee. That Frazee has a bull doesn't necessarily mean he has a large number of cattle, most people who lease out a bull don't have a large herd (which was what I was responding to from a previous poster who seemed to be making an assumption that because Frazee had a bull he must then also have "many cows"). I was shorthanding a response, something I need to stop doing!

Ugh. He's just a kid. Graduated in 2013. I know his older brother. I'd take everything he says with a grain of salt.

 

[bestill]

There's two sides to this story for sure. PF's side is they broke up a year ago, if what he said to the neighbor is accurate. The Berreth's side is they were still together and making plans. If he was able to live both of those lives he truly is diabolical, so killing her would be really nothing for someone like him. IMO

 

[Mom24]

While it would not be impossible for KB to have kept from her family any break-up, it is far more likely he was lying to his friends and other people. Men who cheat (as he did on the woman in the hospital) lie about the relationships they are in, they sneak around and they often lie about many things as they try for their next "conquest". Scott Peterson would be a perfect example of that--with his lies to Amber Frey. As someone stated above, it is likely he will also attempt to shred KB's character in his attempt to twist the truth and save his own hind end. Such people are so very disgusting on so many levels. imho.

Okay, let's just cut through the relationship fog. If they broke up on New Years Day last year or they broke up on Thanksgiving Day or they never broke up, the fact is he solicited someone to kill her months before she was finally murdered. I don't care if he broke up with her a year ago, 3mos ago, or if they were never a couple. She went missing and not once did he meet with police to give them any insight into what may have happened, especially telling since he was the last person to have seen her. He never once put her picture out there asking his friends or his community to look for her. He did, however, have time to whine to people about how the police were bothering him (so apparently he isn't mute). And we find out he solicited someone to murder her for months. And yet, this man who states to friends he broke up with her a year ago, was the only one aside from her employer who received a text? So he wants me to believe he's just so far removed from her that he had no reason to report her missing, but yet so close that he was the only other person she texted when she disappeared? His friends and clients may be that stupid, but I'm not.
Editing to add: remember through his attorney, Frazee said that the relationship had had it's ups and downs but it was a good relationship. More evidence of Frazee's conflicting stories.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The news piece from Twin Falls Idaho said they were helpful in generating search warrants (presumably in Idaho). Of course all of these warrants might have been all involving the phone.

Thanks, yes I remember seeing that now. Thinking aloud then it could hypothetically have been Kelsey's phone and/or purse, engagement ring, what else anyone? It couldn't be baby K as that would have been kidnapping. Hmmmmm

 

[girlhasnoname]

Okay, let's just cut through the relationship fog. If they broke up on New Years Day last year or they broke up on Thanksgiving Day or they never broke up, the fact is he solicited someone to kill her months before she was finally murdered. I don't care if he broke up with her a year ago, 3mos ago, or if they were never a couple. She went missing and not once did he meet with police to give them any insight into what may have happened, especially telling since he was the last person to have seen her. He never once put her picture out there asking his friends or his community to look for her. He did, however, have time to whine to people about how the police were bothering him (so apparently he isn't mute). And we find out he solicited someone to murder her for months. And yet, this man who states to friends he broke up with her a year ago, was the only one aside from her employer who received a text? So he wants me to believe he's just so far removed from her that he had no reason to report her missing, but yet so close that he was the only other person she texted when she disappeared? His friends and clients may be that stupid, but I'm not.

ITA Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Mom24]

It may be what they found and who is involved from Idaho. IMO lots of rumor on fb, if you want to sniff around and read the drama!

Just an FYI, but I got into that drama on another case and other than the name of the victim, all the other "info" was wrong.

 

[enelram]

I agree but if he was that intimidated by her successful life why did he get so involved with her, to the point of having a baby?

Because he sniffed "MONEY". hers and family's, and some men
advertise on dating sites they want an independent woman who
earns her own keep. He didn't want someone he had to take care
of financially. He's gonna keep whatever he earns.

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree but if he was that intimidated by her successful life why did he get so involved with her, to the point of having a baby?

It happens.

 

[girlhasnoname]

There must be so many remote areas in that area that he would be familiar with. The body could be anywhere, and finding is unlikely unless there is someone else who knows where it is. Maybe there is something LE can dangle in front of Frazee to get him to talk. Imo

BBM
I can think of something but it sounds a bit painful and I'm a lady after all.

 

[seasky]

New here to commenting. I have been keeping up with the posts. Is it possible her computer was taken? A computer would possibly had lots of info. her searches, emails etc.

 

[Charlot123]

BBM, I don't remember seeing this reported anywhere. Apologies if I missed it, but do you have a source, please?

Where do you see that he was a neighbor? This is what I read:

Levi Snare said he went through 4H with Frazee when they were children, and he leases a bull from Frazee for his cows. Frazee kept to himself, Snare said, but could hold a conversation when engaged.

"I've known Patrick for a long time, and it doesn't seem to me like he could do that," Snare said. "You're innocent until proven guilty and so people on Facebook who don't even know Patrick need to keep their mouths shut."
Murder charges filed against man in case of missing Colorado mom - CNN

Dairy farm? That's an entirely different operation. Where did this come from?

I read the article and (assuming that CNN verifies its sources) it seems that the story was very complicated to start with. I am at the loss for the motive, the method of execution, no idea where the body is.

Wishing LE luck in answering all these questions.

Not all families are traditional. Pregnancy happens, and keeping the child would be expected given KB's background, and falling out of love soon, but trying to raise the child with both parents present in her life testifies for the best of intentions. It is very sad that things went awry.

 

[ilovechili]

I use the term “large sum” loosely.

It may not make any difference but you can hit a card more than once or use more than one for a larger sum. Years ago I think many cards you could hit 2 or 3 times before they would put a halt on it to be sure it was you. Even if you can't you just access a different one if you have more than one.

I am curious if she just needed something for her cinnamon rolls (for icing perhaps?) so it was a quick trip to the store or perhaps some coffee? Was she having people over? Or was she buying things for a Thanksgiving meal? Or as surmised, there to access some cash? I have only seen a video of entry, none of her at the register, in the store, nor leaving, nor in the parking lot. She also could have simply ran for some diapers. Her mother I am sure knows her well but with a one year old child and needing something in a pinch/hurry, I am not sure I would do my hair first...

 

[jaspermac]

First time I’ve heard that also.

And interesting about he was concerned what would happen to baby if he was arrested, two days before he was arrested...why be concerned if you are innocent? Hmmm...

Oh, I think you would be concerned if you were innocent (not that I think that). But as Nancy Grace put it, if you look our your kitchen window and see FBI, and police digging up your yard you are in a heap of trouble... lol

 

[susiQ]

These murders were discussed a couple of years ago. The murderer's parents lived on the 40 acre property. It was the first time I truly understood that bodies could be burned without an incinerator:

" ... aerial photos were displayed showing what the prosecution says are three bodies laid out on the property where a triple murder suspect lived. The photos also show smoke from a burn barrel and the shadow of a person standing nearby.
...
O.K. I submit. You one this one

The bodies of the missing family members have never been found, but jurors have been told DNA from all three, as well as tooth and bone fragments, were found at the farm ...
I submit @otto. You win this one

The prosecution's theory is that the bodies were burned there. A small tooth believed to belong to a child was also discovered in a pile of ashes on the farm."​

Tears in courtroom as jurors in murder trial shown aerial images Crown says are bodies on farm | CBC News

 

[ilovechili]

Okay, let's just cut through the relationship fog. If they broke up on New Years Day last year or they broke up on Thanksgiving Day or they never broke up, the fact is he solicited someone to kill her months before she was finally murdered. I don't care if he broke up with her a year ago, 3mos ago, or if they were never a couple. She went missing and not once did he meet with police to give them any insight into what may have happened, especially telling since he was the last person to have seen her. He never once put her picture out there asking his friends or his community to look for her. He did, however, have time to whine to people about how the police were bothering him (so apparently he isn't mute). And we find out he solicited someone to murder her for months. And yet, this man who states to friends he broke up with her a year ago, was the only one aside from her employer who received a text? So he wants me to believe he's just so far removed from her that he had no reason to report her missing, but yet so close that he was the only other person she texted when she disappeared? His friends and clients may be that stupid, but I'm not.
Editing to add: remember through his attorney, Frazee said that the relationship had had it's ups and downs but it was a good relationship. More evidence of Frazee's conflicting stories.

Definitely conflicting stories. For his own benefit. I agree. And it is probably what he has done his entire life. I hope they have plenty to show the conflicting stories with regard to this case and conviction. A jury would see right through him.