CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #21 *ARREST*

[gitana1]

I am wondering if there isn't a LE leak on purpose? This custody issue is going to be complicated IMO - a child is not property so you can't just bequeath them to someone. We have pre-need guardians now in my state but I do not believe CO has this. From what I read, the Court would have to judge PF unfit - not sure if his being in jail affects this but if he is named the custodial parent he then could place the child with his family? I sure hope not.

I don't sense that the leak is related to the custody case.

Guardians have to do with guardianship cases. Not CPS/DHS cases. I mean naming a proposed guardian could help the court in a dependency case determine who might be a good fit. But none of that is binding in any court.

Here's an example. Let's say the parents name uncle Rick as the proposed guardian. But after they die, uncle Rick gets cancer and can't do it. Or becomes an alcoholic. Or divorces prior to the deaths and moves out of state and hasn't seen the child in years while other relatives have a greater bond.

The courts just view that stuff as evidence of who the parents felt would be best to care for the child.

But in this case the quick decision by DHS or whatever they call it there, to place the minor in the care of the maternal grandparents pending hearing, and then to keep the kid there or on a temporary basis, is interesting. Especially given the child's apparent relationship with and contact with paternal grandmother.

PF can't be given custody if he's in jail. This case came about because mother is presumed dead and father has been arrested. So he is unable to care for the child.

But his parental rights have not been stripped.

 

[Kapua]

No, I don't. I truly think Kelsey had no clue he was cheating on her. For some reason, I think this woman truly loved him and was happy about planning her wedding, getting a Christmas tree to decorate.

Some folks are book smart but are naive. She was probably a sweet and kind girl and because she was busy with work, taking care of her baby, housework, shopping, etc, she didn't have time to see red flags. To me, it sounds like she trusted PF and was totally clueless about his evil side.

I also think we're really being disrespectful to Kelsey's mother here. She truly believes Kelsey was happy. She gave her a recipe for Kelsey to make. Kelsey told her of her plans to decorate for Christmas. Ever hear of mother's instinct? Most of us Mom's have built in lie detectors, even when our children live states or countries away. My oldest is always stunned how I know when she's fibbing, trying to keep me from worrying. Cherly had absolutely NO REASON to doubt Kelsey on Thanksgiving Day! She did admit, that the video of her at the store was surprising, because Kelsey wasn't all made up like she usually was- that was the other thing that she said that may or may not have given a small clue that all was not right for Kelsey- then again, if moms go to a store real quick, we always joke about how there's a high school reunion there when you look your worst.

I truly feel Kelsey was clueless. She was happy for the most part- probably wanted to get married sooner, but PF had handy dandy excuses ready, and she fell for them. This guy is smooth. He somehow got a nurse, who he's allegedly having a relationship with, to bring Kelsey's phone back to Idaho with her and dispose of it. If this nurse would do such a thing, obviously falling for some tale or sweet nothings of PF's, why wouldn't Kelsey do the same?

Spot on. Let's say, presumably, that PF has a GF in Idaho and a "fiancée" and baby in Colorado. He's content with his unsettled-down player lifestyle. Unfortunately "Idaho" has ties to Colorado and plans to spend Thanksgiving day there. Now things get complicated. MOO

 

[SandyQLS]

Evidence.

Evidence LE is refusing to share with a person involuntarily detained in jail.

I'm not a lawyer but I already have 3 appeals planned, and lots of reasonable doubt. If the charges are supported by witness affidavits alone, then I still smell Swiss cheese and a weak case.

 

[Curiousobserver]

It’s interesting to me that PF, though talking about it actively did nothing until Thanksgiving when the other woman was there. If she was a woman scorned she might have played a huge part in this. Her motive would have been to have PF all to herself. MOO

I am not disagreeing because this happens all the time but what could this guy possibly have to offer that would make you willing to spend the rest of your life in jail?

 

[justaparent]

Local reporter, Scott standing outside of the court room and talking on HLN stated that PF's sister has now asked to intervene in the custody case too.

I may be slapped on the wrist and banned but this scenario with the baby makes me shiver when I remember what happened to those little Powell boys when their dad had visitation rights.

 

[1mtroyal]

Yes, Kelsey's mom should do anything she can to stall having to share custody with murderer Patrick's family. (The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.)

I think the judge should wait until the trial is over and all the facts are out to determine full custody. At this time PF is innocent, and was life insurance a motive?

 

[riolove77]

Robbery = taken from a person. Burglary = taken from home

Burglary is not taking from a home. Burglary is specifically breaking and entering into a building with the intent to commit a felony and that intent has to exist at the time you break and enter. Taking from the home or from anywhere really would be larceny or some other form of theft.

 

[Trudie]

He's the father and so he has a right to be at the hearings. They will listen to his wishes but ultimately determine what is the best interest of the child.

In CPS cases they intervene to get custody, in my experience. Not visitation. They make orders for visitation for a parent but not often for third parties like grandparents, generally. Although it is possible. That typically happens more with guardianship cases or cases where grandparents intervene in a custody case between parents.

It's true that she has spent time with PF's family and that would be something the court would give great weight to.

My personal feelings are negative toward custody of the child to his family. I have a bad feeling about them. I suspect that is an enabling, dysfunctional environment much like the families of many such murderers are.

My feeling is that Kelsey's death is related to possession of the child, entitlement and enmeshment and I don't believe that those attitudes came from nowhere. To me, unsupervised visitation to that family would feel scary.

So I hope her family got the baby. They seem like gentle, normal people. And her mother apparently saw the baby frequently so she's not a stranger.

If K has a will & is deceased (found or declared dead), & she has made provisions for her child or future children, with NO mention to P, then what? If she stated her child be raised by her mom, for example, with no mention of P, then what? I’m going on the assumption she had full custody at time a will was created. Tysm

 

[SandyQLS]

I think P is gonna flip this to the nurse. The nurse is the murderer. That, imo, is what he’s telling his legal eagle.

I don't think PF is talking, but I can definitely see a scorned woman eliminating her rival and setting up the man who dumped her. Strange things do happen.

 

[Gardener1850]

Maybe PF and IdahoNurse had plans to be together in 2016....and KB's pregnancy got in the way. They finally remedied the barrier to them being together? The baby wasn't an issue, but a baby-mama who didn't leave was.

I'm not convinced that is the right theory, but tossing it on the table of possibilities.

jmo

edited for clarity

I'm leaning more towards PF was playing the field with Idaho Nurse while also stringing Kelsey along with promises of a future marriage as well. I think it's possible Nurse knew about Kelsey but thought she was only the mother of PF's child and nothing more. Perhaps somehow Idaho Nurse got herself invited to Thanksgiving dinner at PF's family's home. If PF saw his separate worlds about to collide with both KB and Idaho Nurse planning to come to Thanksgiving dinner he might have started making plans to get rid of KB rather than do the decent thing and break up with her.
MOO.

Did someone say the was a rodeo in September?

 

[Kapua]

So, if she was tied up or somehow forced to unlock her phone, could this play into “robbery,” I wonder?

Not everyone locks their phones. I don't.

 

[Trudie]

I think the judge should wait until the trial is over and all the facts are out to determine full custody. At this time PF is innocent, and was life insurance a motive?

I just posted something similar.
He does not have custody or never did, right? Only physical custody, after an went missing.
The court can’t really “take” custody away, if he did not have it, IMO nor can they claim he’s a murderer, because he’s innocent. (And we can already assume the nurse is being blamed, imo).
So can perm’ custody be awarded or does the state retain it, until P is tried?

All moo

 

[gitana1]

I don't disagree that this could have all been about custody of the baby, but we don't actually know that. I know that LE is not involved in the custody hearings; however, I would hope that if they had any information that he had help from a family member that it can be brought to the attention of the judge making a decision in this case.

I'm sort of confused. I'm just talking about the custody case. I don't think it's related to anything else except the fact that the mother is presumed dead and father in jail and can't care for the child.

 

[The Saint]

I'm leaning more towards PF was playing the field with Idaho Nurse while also stringing Kelsey along with promises of a future marriage as well. I think it's possible Nurse knew about Kelsey but thought she was only the mother of PF's child and nothing more. Perhaps somehow Idaho Nurse got herself invited to Thanksgiving dinner at PF's family's home. If PF saw his separate worlds about to collide with both KB and Idaho Nurse planning to come to Thanksgiving dinner he might have started making plans to get rid of KB rather than do the decent thing and break up with her.
MOO.

Did someone say the was a rodeo in September?

Did PF want to move away from KB and his mom?
Or did he want GF to move down to CO?

I had thought a while back that Patrick wanted GF and baby girl at his family's Thanksgiving meal but not KB.

We don't know the facts yet. Perhaps KB and/or GF were prgenant. That would add even more stress to the situation.

IMO

 

[SandyQLS]

No, not Charisma.... he has a HUGE Brain,
too bad it's located in his BVD's.

LOL. I was trying to be polite. Stable of fillies?

 

[zecats]

I am reading in the tweets that Kelsey's mom CB wasnt at the courtroom but she joined via speaker phone

Perhaps caring for the baby.

 

[24Brix]

I initially thought that the "robbery" was the purse and phone. But, like you, I don't think that taking those items after she is dead would constitute robbery. So, either there is something else that we don't know about, or the DA has charged something that they will probably have to revise.

I don't think the crime of murder ends with her last breath. They are still taking something from her person or presence by threat of force or intimidation. And murder is that to the extreme. MOO, but I believe that the crime ends when he/they stop "crime-ing". Meaning her death, the removal of her body, etc. are all part of one event. Which makes the theft of her phone and purse felony robbery since it was all part of that single event. And I think this is especially true if there is evidence indicating that he planned all of these events in advance as a part of a single plot. At least, that's the way I see it...

 

[Trudie]

Well, here's the motive --- GF split from husband and PF wanted to be free of KB.
Patrick Frazee 'was having an affair for months' with Idaho nurse | Daily Mail Online

IMO

Yup, like I posted a couple pages back. She left her marriage for PF and he gets a dif’ woman pregnant.
At this point we don’t know her involvement. I am eager to hear.
Imo

 

[Safeguard]

Yes, Kelsey's mom should do anything she can to stall having to share custody with murderer Patrick's family. (The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.)

Sometimes you find a perfectly good apple despite the tree. (One bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch). However, having scrutinized PF's mom, I will have to go with KB's fam on this one!

 

[PommyMommy]

I'm leaning more towards PF was playing the field with Idaho Nurse while also stringing Kelsey along with promises of a future marriage as well. I think it's possible Nurse knew about Kelsey but thought she was only the mother of PF's child and nothing more. Perhaps somehow Idaho Nurse got herself invited to Thanksgiving dinner at PF's family's home. If PF saw his separate worlds about to collide with both KB and Idaho Nurse planning to come to Thanksgiving dinner he might have started making plans to get rid of KB rather than do the decent thing and break up with her.

MOO.

Did someone say the was a rodeo in September?

I don't remember seeing September, specifically. It could have been interpreted as September from this article though:

Patrick Frazee 'was having an affair for months' with Idaho nurse | Daily Mail Online
Two individuals who have worked with the Idaho woman that is being investigated for disposing of Kelsey Berreth's cell phone say that she and Patrick Frazee had been in a romantic relationship for months.

I'm also a little confused about the sources of all this information. ABC reported that it was two family members who confirmed LE was investigating I da ho. Daily Mail is reporting it was two people <modsnip: name variation> worked with. ?

LATE EDIT: Cancel that...I don't think ABC reported that it was family members. I think that came from here: Idaho nurse under investigation in case of missing Colorado mother Kelsey Berreth: Sources