CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #21 *ARREST*

[sunshineandlove]

What puzzles me most about this case is that I can't imagine why PF would go to the extreme of murdering KB, much less solicit someone to murder her. AFAIK, no one has stated that they had so much as a loud argument. So what were their issues? I am going to respectfully disagree with "just wanted her gone" as a motive, because I just feel like there has to be something deeper to drive him to that extreme and put his freedom in jeopardy, although one thing these perps have in common is the belief that they are too smart to be caught. I'm thinking that there's another reason - possible financial. Maybe he asked her for a loan and she refused. Maybe he planned to steal her ATM and credit cards, or maybe he fraudulently took out a loan in both of their names without her knowing about it and she found out. I would also suggest that he may have another love interest, but I feel almost certain that the media would have sniffed her out by now if that were the case. IMHO, and I could also be very wrong.

Agree, when is walking away not an option? It's worked for most of the rest of us. Or the ten things you could do in between and up until planning someone's murder?

 

[Aydrianna523]

What puzzles me most about this case is that I can't imagine why PF would go to the extreme of murdering KB, much less solicit someone to murder her. AFAIK, no one has stated that they had so much as a loud argument. So what were their issues? I am going to respectfully disagree with "just wanted her gone" as a motive, because I just feel like there has to be something deeper to drive him to that extreme and put his freedom in jeopardy, although one thing these perps have in common is the belief that they are too smart to be caught. I'm thinking that there's another reason - possible financial. Maybe he asked her for a loan and he refused. Maybe he planned to steal her ATM and credit cards, or maybe he fraudulently took out a loan in both of their names without her knowing about it and she found out. I would also suggest that he may have another love interest, but I feel almost certain that the media would have sniffed her out by now if that were the case. IMHO, and I could also be very wrong.

Yes, it certainly boggles the mind why he killed her. They weren't married, so no spousal support. They didn't live together so he had freedom. Was he paying child support? That's all I can think of. Money can be a huge motivator.
Or he's just a evil person and hates her personal successes, or her kindness which he didn't have. I guess we can only wait and wait some more for LE to give us their perspective, or maybe angry over her not giving him money.

 

[Herat]

Where are you getting four hours round trip? I see 1 hour, 8 minutes each way:
Google Maps

Still a good little commute!

It’s best to google the trip for the commute hours. I get somethink like 1 hr 30 to 1 hr 50 minutes

 

[PrairieWind]

What puzzles me most about this case is that I can't imagine why PF would go to the extreme of murdering KB, much less solicit someone to murder her. AFAIK, no one has stated that they had so much as a loud argument. So what were their issues? I am going to respectfully disagree with "just wanted her gone" as a motive, because I just feel like there has to be something deeper to drive him to that extreme and put his freedom in jeopardy, although one thing these perps have in common is the belief that they are too smart to be caught. I'm thinking that there's another reason - possible financial. Maybe he asked her for a loan and she refused. Maybe he planned to steal her ATM and credit cards, or maybe he fraudulently took out a loan in both of their names without her knowing about it and she found out. I would also suggest that he may have another love interest, but I feel almost certain that the media would have sniffed her out by now if that were the case. IMHO, and I could also be very wrong.

I don't know either. Even if they had indeed broken up, why did he want her murdered? As far as custody, they actually had a pretty good arrangement, at least for the time being. The child was being cared for, neither was having to pay child support or child care (which is very expensive). I think there is just something else going on here, but I can't figure out what.

 

[SoVeryMe]

SoVeryMe.
As in many relationships, the initial newness, excitement, romance kept KB interested.
Being intelligent and driven would not deter KB, in getting to know PF.
With time, Kelsey realized the relationship was not going anywhere.
We don't have photos, or mutual friends that have spoken, shared interests, and perhaps as her pinterest suggest, she made the wrong choice.

PF also now did not want Kelsey in his life.
PF made his plans, and we will now perhaps have a clearer picture, from the DA, once Court proceedings commence.
MOO.

I completely agree. I should’ve been more clear and stated it would take an evil person to look at, interact with, co/parent with and possibly be in a relationship with someone they were plotting to harm or kill. Poor KB had no idea who she was dealing with.

 

[MassGuy]

I don't know either. Even if they had indeed broken up, why did he want her murdered? As far as custody, they actually had a pretty good arrangement, at least for the time being. The child was being cared for, neither was having to pay child support or child care (which is very expensive). I think there is just something else going on here, but I can't figure out what.

They did have a good arrangement, as they lived close enough that each of them could watch the baby, potentially each on the same day.

Kelsey worked, so she had built in childcare. He might have had the same, if his mother watched the baby while both of them were working.

If custody was the motive, it’s likely because something changed, or was about to change.

But there really isn’t evidence of that right now, atleast as far as we have seen.

It’s still my primary motive, but there could also be others that we don’t know about.

Like a financial one.

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree with Kelsey possibly being the one to want to break things off. Has it been factually verified they were engaged and planning a wedding?

I’m personally not so sure if they were in fact on a romantic relationship in the past few months. KB had a home, career, child.....she certainly seemed to be setting up a life for herself and her daughter. Nothing from what I’ve gathered (although minimal at best) has indicated they shared similar goals or had been making plans for a future together. Growing up on a “ranch” I find it hard to believe he would move into a 700 sf condo, I think for a career mom it was perfect for KB and little K.

Having a child is a transition for any relationship, let alone a new one. To me it seemed as if they were co parenting and trying to establish what worked for them as co parents.

PF certainly has a history of telling untruths....or things to reflect KB in a poor light, she didn’t seem to be close to any of his friends or business associates. The dynamic of their relationship is just strange to me and as harsh as it sounds I don’t think KB served a purpose in PF’s life any longer so he wanted to just get rid of her. Maybe he was resentful of her career and success and didn’t like the role her became in her life? Was he chauvinist at all and felt like it wasn’t his role to care for their child while KB was building her career? I’m not victim shaming at all, my heart breaks for KB and and family.

It’s so difficult for me to wrap my head around how such a beautiful, intelligent and driven young woman could get wrapped up with someone so sinister and dark.

I think a lot of what you say is possible.
All we know is what Kelseys mom said to the press. They were planning on getting married but had not set a date. They wanted to buy a home together but the econonomy was not good.
She also stressed that Kelsey was more focused on the quality of her relationships, as opposed to quantity. She was very reserved.
This makes me think she was very careful about who she chose to spend her time with. If she saw any red flags, she would stay away.
Maybe by the time she noticed any warning signs, she was already pregnant or already had the baby. She may have felt stuck in a bad relationship, but did the best she could for the sake of her child. Imo

 

[girlhasnoname]

I wasn't sure what type of duties Kelsey might perform on a daily basis. Here is a recap of the job description for CFI:

• Conducting training (ground and flight duties) in accordance with the applicable USAF Air Education and Training Command (AETC) Syllabus and FAA training requirements.
• Providing ground instruction on aircraft systems, training maneuvers, procedures and other flight related subjects.
• Training and screening pilot, combat system officer, remotely piloted aircraft pilot and international military student pilot candidates.
• Conducting preflight/post flight-debriefings and providing in-flight instruction to ensure students have a thorough understanding and comprehension of the training materials.
• Executing military-style flight training instruction, which consists of basic flight tasks and maneuvers including steep turns, slow flight, stalls, area emergency procedures, ground reference maneuvers, normal patterns, emergency patterns, clock-to-map-to-ground navigation, pilotage and dead reckoning.
• Completing electronic gradebook entries to insure syllabus requirements are met.

Impressive! She really was a woman with a plan and a bright future IMO, too bad she ran across this 'thing'. I just can't call PF a man!

 

[tmar]

According to her FAA licenses she was not a CFI, Certified Flight
Instructor, therefore she was not licensed to teach others to fly.
She may have been a trainee, while she was studying for her
CFI rating, which could include teaching some ground classes and
basics to students.
Also due to her few years experience in aviation she would still be considered entry level, if going for her CFI rating.
Entry level instructors with CFI rating would probably earn
between 35- 40,000/yr. Entry level pilots do not earn what people
think they earn. It's also based on flying hours/experience.

Thanks enelram for these details.
If Kelsey's salary was in this range, she certainly would require assistance from PF with contributing towards their daughter.
Kelsey has a mortgage, and all her ongoing expenses.

PF probably has SF providing for him.
SF taking care of the daughter was most helpful,
but perhaps Kelsey required more financial help,
regarding their daughter.
These requests perhaps caused, PF to plan Kelsey's murder.
MOO.

 

[enelram]

What puzzles me most about this case is that I can't imagine why PF would go to the extreme of murdering KB, much less solicit someone to murder her. AFAIK, no one has stated that they had so much as a loud argument. So what were their issues? I am going to respectfully disagree with "just wanted her gone" as a motive, because I just feel like there has to be something deeper to drive him to that extreme and put his freedom in jeopardy, although one thing these perps have in common is the belief that they are too smart to be caught. I'm thinking that there's another reason - possible financial. Maybe he asked her for a loan and she refused. Maybe he planned to steal her ATM and credit cards, or maybe he fraudulently took out a loan in both of their names without her knowing about it and she found out. I would also suggest that he may have another love interest, but I feel almost certain that the media would have sniffed her out by now if that were the case. IMHO, and I could also be very wrong.

But you're thinking like a sane "normal" person. We're all
scratching our heads here also on WHY. PF was a lifelong
manipulator who was a parasite on others. He took whatever
he could and gave very, very little back. He was the consumate
taker in life, using other people.
KB uncovered all his character flaws after she moved near him
and got to see him more often. When he convinced her to move
to Co., she really didn't know much about him w/ only a couple
months of a long distance online relationship. He put the
rush on her to get her to move.
Once she moved, she started to have certain expectations
of him and he didn't deliver. He was probably cheating on
her during most of their relationship. She knew he was
a bum. Not really earning muuch of a living. Still playing
at life like he was a 14 yr. old boy. He didn't want to
grow up and be responsible and mature. He liked his old life.
And she interfered w/ it and put demands on him. His
mother had spoiled him and allowed him to stay like
Peter Pan, never grow up.
KB was onto him, his lies, his cheating, his being a sloth and
on and on. Nothing like the men in her family- hard working farmers. Honest farmers, faithful husbands and good fathers.

His gig was up. So he wanted her gone.

 

[susiQ]

Ugh...it bothers me that PF's mom is asking for custody right now. Have some compassion, lady.

As much as I agree, I can see why she's doing it. SF is a bit of a mystery to us, at the moment. So little we know about her. It's very possible she is in complete denial. Who knows how many lies she has been told by her son. I have no doubt she cares for baby K and is making an effort to show that, even if she never gets custody. Like us, she doesn't know the volume of evidence they have against PF and may really believe he's innocent and this is just a huge mistake and that he'll eventually get out, as incredulous as that is to the rest of us.

I ponder what she may have known and my feelings sway back and forth. Did she not at all suspect anything was amiss during those days?? Once KB became an official missing person could she not look back and wonder? Did PF tell her KB was seeing someone else, and she then automatically accepted that she came to harm by someone else? I certainly don't believe, at this point, that she was in any way complicit. She's just another victim of PF. MOO

edit:spelling

 

[Love Never Fails]

I think a lot of what you say is possible.
All we know is what Kelseys mom said to the press. They were planning on getting married but had not set a date. They wanted to buy a home together but the econonomy was not good.
She also stressed that Kelsey was more focused on the quality of her relationships, as opposed to quantity. She was very reserved.
This makes me think she was very careful about who she chose to spend her time with. If she saw any red flags, she would stay away.
Maybe by the time she noticed any warning signs, she was already pregnant or already had the baby. She may have felt stuck in a bad relationship, but did the best she could for the sake of her child. Imo

And yet for all of Kelsey’s qualities and perseverance, she ends up being murdered. Ugh...makes you hate him even more. I definitely believe there is a lot more to this. Maybe the person who helped or was just solicited is being given protection by LE until he/she can take the stand in a trial. Regardless of how we look at it, he had no reason, none at all. Just another CW or SP to me. Taking up the air we breathe.

 

[PrairieWind]

They did have a good arrangement, as they lived close enough that each of them could watch the baby, potentially each on the same day.

Kelsey worked, so she had built in childcare. He might have had the same, if his mother watched the baby while both of them were working.

If custody was the motive, it’s likely because something changed, or was about to change.

But there really isn’t evidence of that right now, atleast as far as we have seen.

It’s still my primary motive, but there could also be others that we don’t know about.

Like a financial one.

I know lots of divorced couples/parents that would love to have that situation. But that is beside the point.
Like you, I think lots of us still think some sort of custody issue is behind this, mostly because we can't seem to think of anything else (without getting into really weird scenarios that would be based upon pure speculation).

 

[KBB87]

Do we know if Kelsey had an attached garage? It seems she would have close neighbors, as well. Do you have any ideas about the perp getting her body into a presumed truck?

No garage and she shared a wall with the townhome next door, but I think it’s been established that that resident was not home on Thanksgiving Day.

 

[KBB87]

They did have a good arrangement, as they lived close enough that each of them could watch the baby, potentially each on the same day.

Kelsey worked, so she had built in childcare. He might have had the same, if his mother watched the baby while both of them were working.

If custody was the motive, it’s likely because something changed, or was about to change.

But there really isn’t evidence of that right now, atleast as far as we have seen.

It’s still my primary motive, but there could also be others that we don’t know about.

Like a financial one.

God only knows where this one is going to end up. I certainly didn’t see solicitation or robbery playing any part in this.

 

[SoVeryMe]

But you're thinking like a sane "normal" person. We're all
scratching our heads here also on WHY. PF was a lifelong
manipulator who was a parasite on others. He took whatever
he could and gave very, very little back. He was the consumate
taker in life, using other people.
KB uncovered all his character flaws after she moved near him
and got to see him more often. When he convinced her to move
to Co., she really didn't know much about him w/ only a couple
months of a long distance online relationship. He put the
rush on her to get her to move.
Once she moved, she started to have certain expectations
of him and he didn't deliver. He was probably cheating on
her during most of their relationship. She knew he was
a bum. Not really earning muuch of a living. Still playing
at life like he was a 14 yr. old boy. He didn't want to
grow up and be responsible and mature. He liked his old life.
And she interfered w/ it and put demands on him. His
mother had spoiled him and allowed him to stay like
Peter Pan, never grow up.
KB was onto him, his lies, his cheating, his being a sloth and
on and on. Nothing like the men in her family- hard working farmers. Honest farmers, faithful husbands and good fathers.

His gig was up. So he wanted her gone.

YES to all of this.

 

[Kapua]

But you're thinking like a sane "normal" person. We're all
scratching our heads here also on WHY. PF was a lifelong
manipulator who was a parasite on others. He took whatever
he could and gave very, very little back. He was the consumate
taker in life, using other people.
KB uncovered all his character flaws after she moved near him
and got to see him more often. When he convinced her to move
to Co., she really didn't know much about him w/ only a couple
months of a long distance online relationship. He put the
rush on her to get her to move.
Once she moved, she started to have certain expectations
of him and he didn't deliver. He was probably cheating on
her during most of their relationship. She knew he was
a bum. Not really earning muuch of a living. Still playing
at life like he was a 14 yr. old boy. He didn't want to
grow up and be responsible and mature. He liked his old life.
And she interfered w/ it and put demands on him. His
mother had spoiled him and allowed him to stay like
Peter Pan, never grow up.
KB was onto him, his lies, his cheating, his being a sloth and
on and on. Nothing like the men in her family- hard working farmers. Honest farmers, faithful husbands and good fathers.

His gig was up. So he wanted her gone.

But neither her mother, brother, brother's husband, or cousin seemed to have any inkling that there was trouble in paradise, apart from the one report of him being an "odd duck" IIRC. The neighbors did not come forward to say that there'd been any loud arguments. The alleged murder seemed to come out of nowhere. There are some missing puzzle pieces here. The solicitation charges surprised us all. I have a feeling we are in store for a few more surprises. JMHO.

 

[MassGuy]

And yet for all of Kelsey’s qualities and perseverance, she ends up being murdered. Ugh...makes you hate him even more. I definitely believe there is a lot more to this. Maybe the person who helped or was just solicited is being given protection by LE until he/she can take the stand in a trial. Regardless of how we look at it, he had no reason, none at all. Just another CW or SP to me. Taking up the air we breathe.

Crimes like this always seem “senseless.”

To us they are evil, and incomprehensible.

To him though, this made sense. There was a reason for it, a motivation.

It’s up to us to figure out what that is.

The motive.

There is a hell of a lot more to this story that has yet to be told.

Usually at this point, we have a pretty clear picture of the victim and killer. We don’t know much about either right now.

We know even less about the crime, and how it all went down.

We all hang on every piece of new information that is revealed. That’s probably how this case is going to go.

Drip. Drip. Drip.

Frustrating.

 

[Trudie]

From what was posted on WS during Chris Watts case, CO custody is different than CA. If a parent is awarded full custody of the child,
that parent can move whever they wish without having the consent of the other parent.

In my state, the custodial parent can move w/o permission from the non-custodial parent, but they advise the court. Usually, IMO, visitation consists of extended periods of time during summer break & Xmas, the custodial parent generally absorbing transportation costs. Would it not be a hardship for a parent if he/she got a mandatory relocation from their employer, maybe even resulting in termination, if the parent/employee was not “allowed” to move?
Jmo

 

[tmar]

First-time poster from Colorado here…please bear with me if I’m not caught up on the details.

Initially I thought this was about KB planning to move back to WA state and take her daughter with her, thus denying PF access to his daughter. If the relationship had soured, I can understand KB wanting to be closer to family support. However, that scenario doesn’t make sense, given that she just purchased the house three months ago. Buying a house indicates that the relationship may have been ending, but she planned to stay in the area to facilitate shared custody of the baby. I now think this is simply about his control and rage: she ended things and he couldn’t tolerate the rejection. The timing certainly suggests this, because PF began planning her killing three months ago, right around the time KB bought the townhouse.

Also, an earlier poster questioned why KB maintained a PO box. I’m not familiar with that particular area, but that is a pretty common practice in CO mountain towns/resort communities. A lot of people live in condos or townhouses, so mail gets delivered to the post office instead. In our ski town, everybody has a PO box unless they are in a single-family home, which is only a small portion of the population.

Welcome Summit.
Kelsey buying her house was a good investment, as she planned to live there.
Now that the relationship soured, moving may have been her next plan.
Her home could easily be rented out to others.

So the financial burden would not be as great for Kelsey.
Possibly Kelsey's planning to move, gave PF other ideas.
Child support, expenses regarding this may have been his concern.
MOO.