CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #21 *ARREST*

[Aydrianna523]

No garage and she shared a wall with the townhome next door, but I think it’s been established that that resident was not home on Thanksgiving Day.

Would it make sense to take her body out at night then? I'm under the assumption there's other neighbors...

 

[Mom24]

As an attorney, have you ever heard of a case where an arrest affidavit was provided to the defense attorney but the attorney was barred from sharing it with his client? That seems extraordinary to me.

I had missed that point, that can be a normal way for things to proceed.

Was PF telling is friends in the past few months that they had split in Jan of 2018?
Or did he tell friends back in Jan 2018 that they had split?

More like 2 days before he was arrested, is when he told people he'd broken up with Kelsey almost a year prior.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I have never experienced it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen I guess. If I get a chance, I'll try to ask some of my attorney friends that handle more criminal cases than I do. The issue is that this inhibits the defense attorney from adequately defending the case. And that is something that could be grounds for an appeal of a conviction.

Yet does that issue exist yet because he has not had his arraignment?

 

[MsBetsy]

What puzzles me most about this case is that I can't imagine why PF would go to the extreme of murdering KB, much less solicit someone to murder her. AFAIK, no one has stated that they had so much as a loud argument. So what were their issues? I am going to respectfully disagree with "just wanted her gone" as a motive, because I just feel like there has to be something deeper to drive him to that extreme and put his freedom in jeopardy, although one thing these perps have in common is the belief that they are too smart to be caught. I'm thinking that there's another reason - possible financial. Maybe he asked her for a loan and she refused. Maybe he planned to steal her ATM and credit cards, or maybe he fraudulently took out a loan in both of their names without her knowing about it and she found out. I would also suggest that he may have another love interest, but I feel almost certain that the media would have sniffed her out by now if that were the case. IMHO, and I could also be very wrong.

I don't think he just "wanted her gone" either. But I do think he resented her, and I think he wanted total control of the baby. Eliminating the other parent likely seemed to him to be the only way to do that. I think that's a lot ""deeper" than killing for money.
We don't know what their issues were, but there almost always disagreements and sometimes bitterness between two parents trying to raise a child seperately. It can get very messy, not to mention emotional.
Maybe the reason we haven't heard anything from anyone about how they were in public was because nobody knew. They may not have ever gone out together as a family.

I don't think he would have asked for money, he seems like he has too much pride.
If he took out a fraudulent loan, there would be evidence. He could have used her credit cards but he didn't, at least not that we have heard.

It could simply be that he did not want to share custody of the child, and couldn't deal with having to spend his daughters entire childhood dealing with someone he resented. Imo

 

[oviedo]

She likely thinks that is the right thing, since she was one of the main caretakers. Now PF has taken all three away.
I'm hoping Kelsey's family will be given custody but I can't imagine she won't get some kind of visitation time. Whatever they decide, I bet she will keep up the fight for as long as she can. Imo

IMO if she is excluded entirely there will be a compelling reason why (she=SF)

 

[Trudie]

Police: Dad tried to have fiancee killed three times before she vanished

This so blew me away, Kelsey never had a chance.

It’s so beyond disgusting he was planning her demise for appx 3 months & was probably acting “hunky dory” when seeing her during that time frame. IMO, of course.
If allegations are true & he started the solicitation process in September, how many months prior did he begin hatching a plan? IMO, he had evil thoughts longer than 3 months.

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Would it make sense to take her body out at night then? I'm under the assumption there's other neighbors...

I’d be shocked if he didn’t take her body out at night.

I’m of the opinion that she was killed not long after returning home from the Safeway on Thanksgiving afternoon.

Dusk was only a few hours after that.

 

[PommyMommy]

It’s best to google the trip for the commute hours. I get somethink like 1 hr 30 to 1 hr 50 minutes

Well, that would explain it. Thank you!

 

[Trudie]

IMO if she is excluded entirely there will be a compelling reason why (she=SF)

Could it come down to Ma F only getting supervised visits, in the future? I see no reason for visits to be denied.
However, an insider might.
The grandma in the Crystal Roger case had visits taken away, by a higher court.

Judge rules Crystal Rogers' son can no longer see his grandmother, Sherry Ballard

Brief article ^, worth a glance.

 

[MsBetsy]

Agree, when is walking away not an option? It's worked for most of the rest of us. Or the ten things you could do in between and up until planning someone's murder?

This is discussed in every case. The only answer I can come up with is that murderers don't think the way normal people do. Jmo

 

[MassGuy]

This is discussed in every case. The only answer I can come up with is that murderers don't think the way normal people do. Jmo

Ha! Normal people don’t murder in the first place.

That’s a sign that these people may not be like the rest of us.

 

[KBB87]

Would it make sense to take her body out at night then? I'm under the assumption there's other neighbors...

I think he’d have to have done it at night. At least one other neighbor across the street saw his truck there between 12:30-1 pm when she was leaving her place. Imagine if he’d been carrying her out at that time. Way too risky.

 

[Vandalay Industries]

One thing I keep thinking about.. 3 different charges of solicitation. Haven't read if that is 3 different PEOPLE solicited or 3 different times, but, in either case, is it at ALL possible that the person being solicited contacted LE and LE fumbled this before it went too far? IE, not following up on reports of it? Man, I hope this isn't the case. ugh. I hope they have some real solid evidence. And I hate to say it, but I have a feeling its more gory than we know. Could be why they are remaining so tight lipped in both scenarios. Just MOO.

 

[PrairieWind]

Yet does that issue exist yet because he has not had his arraignment?

Sure. A defense attorney would want to start working the case as soon as he is hired. I like to talk to every witness I can find a soon as possible. But arraignment is when the official clock starts ticking on "speedy trial" requirements. So the prosecutor probably wants to push that out as far as possible while LE tries to find the body and other evidence. Defense MAY want to get it as soon as possible to force the DA to start turning over evidence and perhaps even limit the amount of evidence collected. Quite often, Defendants will waive their right to speedy trial to give their own attorney more time to prepare. But this could be a case where the defense may not want to do that.

 

[Ccging]

It strikes me as odd that KB’s family has not released any videos of her that would give us insight into her personality. IMO it is good to “humanize” the victim (if that makes sense). Remembering Laci P. and the videos they put out of her smile and personality....

 

[Concernedmamaof3]

What puzzles me most about this case is that I can't imagine why PF would go to the extreme of murdering KB, much less solicit someone to murder her. AFAIK, no one has stated that they had so much as a loud argument. So what were their issues? I am going to respectfully disagree with "just wanted her gone" as a motive, because I just feel like there has to be something deeper to drive him to that extreme and put his freedom in jeopardy, although one thing these perps have in common is the belief that they are too smart to be caught. I'm thinking that there's another reason - possible financial. Maybe he asked her for a loan and she refused. Maybe he planned to steal her ATM and credit cards, or maybe he fraudulently took out a loan in both of their names without her knowing about it and she found out. I would also suggest that he may have another love interest, but I feel almost certain that the media would have sniffed her out by now if that were the case. IMHO, and I could also be very wrong.

I have thought the exact same. I know murderers don’t always make sense in their reasoning, but it just seems there should be more of a reason. Your idea of him taking out a loan in her name is interesting, but would she have just sat back for months with that information? She would have needed to find out pre-Sept 1 when he first solicited someone.

Several threads ago I had wondered about KB wanting to put baby K in formal child care vs with him and his mom being a reason. She may have even suggested SF wouldn’t be able to keep up with the baby much longer. It might have been enough to incite his rage also.

 

[Trudie]

This is discussed in every case. The only answer I can come up with is that murderers don't think the way normal people do. Jmo

IMO, the perp is so filled with hate, he relishes the thought of “punishing his victim”. I also wonder if it’s a culmination of events that finally cause the murderer to carry out his fantasy/dream/wishes, rather than a single event or argument.
Like, in this case, did he hate K so much that he only thought of killing her, when in her presence? But, appeared pleasant, smiling, etc., & if so, his demeanor was directly related to his intentions?

 

[oviedo]

It strikes me as odd that KB’s family has not released any videos of her that would give us insight into her personality. IMO it is good to “humanize” the victim (if that makes sense). Remembering Laci P. and the videos they put out of her smile and personality....

From what I have seen so far, IMO they are a very private family. I don't think we will see much from them.

 

[MassGuy]

Sure. A defense attorney would want to start working the case as soon as he is hired. I like to talk to every witness I can find a soon as possible. But arraignment is when the official clock starts ticking on "speedy trial" requirements. So the prosecutor probably wants to push that out as far as possible while LE tries to find the body and other evidence. Defense MAY want to get it as soon as possible to force the DA to start turning over evidence and perhaps even limit the amount of evidence collected. Quite often, Defendants will waive their right to speedy trial to give their own attorney more time to prepare. But this could be a case where the defense may not want to do that.

Oh boy, I didn’t think about that.

The prosecution’s case appears to be still developing, and forcing their hand and speeding the process, could definitely play into PF’s favor.

It would make sense, as their case can only get stronger with time.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Crimes like this always seem “senseless.”

To us they are evil, and incomprehensible.

To him though, this made sense. There was a reason for it, a motivation.

It’s up to us to figure out what that is.

The motive.

There is a hell of a lot more to this story that has yet to be told.

Usually at this point, we have a pretty clear picture of the victim and killer. We don’t know much about either right now.

We know even less about the crime, and how it all went down.

We all hang on every piece of new information that is revealed. That’s probably how this case is going to go.

Drip. Drip. Drip.

Frustrating.

And likely, a long long road ahead. LE has said they will not try this case in the media. We seem to parse every little clue. WHY did this make sense to him? I don’t believe we are giving Kelsey too much credit for being a good person. It appears she did everything right for herself and her child.

If he has another woman out there, or more than one, it doesn’t appear he cares whether he cheats. That is almost a given. So surely it wasn’t because he fell in love with someone as CW says he did. He seems to me to be a spoiled little boy, taken care of by his mother.

If Kelsey decided she wanted to move on and maybe put her home up for sale, he couldn’t let that happen and her take the baby away from his mom. But maybe Kelsey had no plans to move. Maybe she was hoping he would grow up and want them as a family. I do believe he was lying to everyone, his family, his friends/girlfriends and KB. But he wasn’t married like CW or SP. He appears so selfish! How can that be explained? Evil and incomprehensible..yes!