CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #22 *ARREST*

[Trudie]

Would the time the baby spends in temporary physical custody with KB’s family have any effect on permanent custody? Wondering if the longer she is with them the better in a sense?

I would think, rather than uprooting her. Would you? Especially if the custody issue drags on & on & on.

 

[Concernedmamaof3]

Yes this is what I understood as well.

I thought DA May also said in the PC after that he was sending it over that day. PommyMommy and her magical powers can probably find the link faster than me!

 

[gitana1]

Would the time the baby spends in temporary physical custody with KB’s family have any effect on permanent custody? Wondering if the longer she is with them the better in a sense?

Yes. Which makes me happy. I feel she's where she belongs. I get a sense of calm capability from KB's mom. Not enmeshed, enabling dysfunction.

 

[Concernedmamaof3]

Is the judge not privy to seeing the sealed document? That’s where I’m confused. I guess the judge can’t announce the justification for the ruling if it is based on it?

Was it confirmed to be the same judge for both cases? If so, you are probably right that they can’t use evidence that is in a sealed document.

 

[gitana1]

It might be months before custody is fully resolved then.

https://www.dhs.state.or.us/caf/safety_model/procedure_manual/appendices/ch4-app/4-16.pdf

I found this during our break. ^^ regarding incarceration/children

That's a good find. My question is whether the incarcerated parent's rights would be terminated within a year if they aren't out, per CO dependency court timelines.

I haven't had time to research.

 

[gitana1]

Is the judge not privy to seeing the sealed document? That’s where I’m confused. I guess the judge can’t announce the justification for the ruling if it is based on it?

The judge in the dependency court case isn't privy to a document sealed in another case, absent a court order. Sounds like they're waiting for rulings and the release of discovery which will eventually occur.

 

[The Saint]

And can you imagine, when the baby is old enough to know what happened, realizing that you are still with the family of the person who killed your mom? I think that would be really traumatic.

It reminds me of Tracey Gold's husband, Roby Marshall, who is one of 3 brothers. His dad ordered the contract killing of his mother. The dad was coming up for parole in 2014 but died.

Roby was 18 when his mom was murdered, so it's not like KB's case in terms of custody, but this article brings up a point that may be true of the KB case - the murder contract was set up and passed through 3 people, so that the shooter didn't know all of the details and background.
Could Robert Marshall be free soon?

 

[Milenalee]

There are lots of MSM reports now of the nurse from Idaho being suspected of disposing of the phone. I wonder if the prosecution is afraid that she and others will be harder to arrest if PF learns what they know and then advises them, or her. Disposing of the phone sounds pretty suspect. Are prisoners allowed to call or text people?

Until I heard about the Idaho nurse I was convinced it was more a weird Oedipal motive..like he killed her so he and his mom could carry on without dealing with another person or family, he just wanted the baby.

The footage from the hearing showed PF’s mom kind of in the shadows, with a really unexpressive face. It was a profile shot. Then the camera went to PF and his expressions ( in shock, scared, and somewhat off base) reminded me so much of Norman Bates in the original Psycho movie. After that everything about him seemed like Norman...

But the nurse kind of messes up that whole theory. JUst my imagination i guess.
Google Image Result for https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41wkU44RKrL.jpg

 

[InvSmith]

Idk what kind of custody arrangement they had. I’ve not seen a document.

Custody at this time is being controlled by the State of Colorado. The child is being entrusted to the maternal grandparents (mother) through the court system. This was not a formal marriage with implied shared custody. This by all appearances appears to be an informal arrangement. Custody is being determined at some point and slowly working its way through hearings. The mother has to be declared legally deceased, etc. The father's rights (such as they are) have been taken away as he has no rights (he is under state control and considered a risk to society and has no bond.) The state has laid out charges of premeditated murder of an one hundred and ten-pound unarmed female (yes, he is assumed innocent and that is what the free cell is for.) This could change but he would have severe conditions of which would probably exclude access to small children and limited freedom one would hope (just being frankly honest.) I would not think he will be freed any time soon based on a minimum of five felony counts and he has not volunteered where the mother of the child is located.

 

[Lhughessk]

I believe that in the hearing on Monday where PF was present, the Judge
ordered that the arrest warrant be given to PF's attorney but the atty was not allowed to share it with PF. You can see it in the pool camera video shot in a later point in the hearing.

Do you have a link and a timestamp? Not doubting you, but I would like to see it. The Denver Post article at one point made it seem like the attorney had not seen it yet.

 

[PrairieWind]

Is the judge not privy to seeing the sealed document? That’s where I’m confused. I guess the judge can’t announce the justification for the ruling if it is based on it?

Certainly the Judge has seen it, but not child services nor the guardian ad litem.

 

[oviedo]

They would need to see if there is any evidence that puts suspicion on PF's mother.

Appreciate the caution in this matter

 

[Trudie]

That's a good find. My question is whether the incarcerated parent's rights would be terminated within a year if they aren't out, per CO dependency court timelines.

I haven't had time to research.

What I’ve found, isn’t conclusive. I’m still looking.....
Thus far, it looks to me that someone has to petition the court to terminate rights. Correct? The court would not terminate automatically, due to a felony conviction.
Also, if the sentenced party has numbers rather than LWOP or DP, might play a part. In this case, even if he got LWOP, if his family had custody, he’d still enjoy visitation.

MOO MOO

 

[Mom24]

Will the court order a paternity test since they weren't married? Or does that factor in at all?

 

[scdiv]

This may be a really dumb question (it wouldn't be my first) - but wasn't PF told not to have contact with any witnesses, with the exception of his family? If the arrest affidavit was sealed from even him, how would the defense know who he was not allowed to have contact with? (Sorry if that is really dumb question to ask, obvious, or has already been clarified. When I had initially read this, I didn't realize that PF or his public defender didn't have access to the arrest affidavit. I thought it was just sealed from the media and public.)

"The judge granted the prosecution's request that Frazee have no contact with any witness or anyone else named in the sealed arrest affidavit, with the exception of his family."

quoted from:
Kelsey Berreth: Patrick Frazee, the fiancé of a missing mom in Colorado, is arrested and booked in her murder - CNN

 

[PrairieWind]

Will the court order a paternity test since they weren't married? Or does that factor in at all?

IF PF is listed on the birth certificate there isn't likely to be a paternity test.

 

[Mom24]

This may be a really dumb question (it wouldn't be my first) - but wasn't PF told not to have contact with any witnesses, with the exception of his family? If the arrest affidavit was sealed from even him, how would the defense know who he was not allowed to have contact with? (Sorry if that is really dumb question to ask, obvious, or has already been clarified. When I had initially read this, I didn't realize that PF or his public defender didn't have access to the arrest affidavit. I thought it was just sealed from the media and public.)

"The judge granted the prosecution's request that Frazee have no contact with any witness or anyone else named in the sealed arrest affidavit, with the exception of his family."

quoted from:
Kelsey Berreth: Patrick Frazee, the fiancé of a missing mom in Colorado, is arrested and booked in her murder - CNN

And the way that was worded I had wondered if they considered his family witnesses. "with the exception of his family", sounds like they're named in the arrest affidavit.

 

[oviedo]

What I’ve found, isn’t conclusive. I’m still looking.....
Thus far, it looks to me that someone has to petition the court to terminate rights. Correct? The court would not terminate automatically, due to a felony conviction.
Also, if the sentenced party has numbers rather than LWOP or DP, might play a part. In this case, even if he got LWOP, if his family had custody, he’d still enjoy visitation.

MOO MOO

That’s what I found as well and only certain people can initiate the petition - I posted the link up thread before we had a timeout

 

[Nudgee]

Quick question for all you fabulous sleuthers..... during the hearing on Monday, did I hear Judge LBV mention another judge would be taking over or also involved sometime in January? When I get sometime, I dig back through and listen to the hearing again. I could be completely off in thinking I heard this (most likely the case) so thought I’d check with you all first! TIA

ETA: not a custody hearing.... the charges hearing... I’m in a bad internet zone so can’t pull up the date... sorry

 

[Lhughessk]

Per DM, friends of IN seem to know quite a bit of info about her relationship with P. I wonder, did a “friend” in Idaho contact CO LE and drop a “hint” & that is what led LE to the nurse? Jmo

Could be. But also could be that the ping that led LE to Idaho might have also led them to the nurse’s own phone. I assume that not only did she have Kelsey‘s phone in her possession, but her own phone as well. Maybe when police did a cell tower dump, they were somehow able to determine That the two phones were in the same physical location at one time. Then they traced the phone back to its owner, the nurse?