CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #22 *ARREST*

[Concernedmamaof3]

I always wonder in these type of cases what is running through the defendants mind. Is it remorse? Sorrow? Regret (my God I can’t believe I did this). Shame? Defiance? Hope (if innocent). Or in the case of a psychopath, nothing, or even satisfaction. I don’t think PF is a psycho though.

Or thinking about whether he was careful enough and didn’t miss anything.

 

[LietKynes]

Not that has been made public. The state did the motions for the custody. I think it is a hard situation all around. I cannot even imagine not knowing where my daughter is and how she suffered. There is absolutely not fair for either grandmother to suffer this way.

Referring to the quoted bit in your post :
[QUOTE="No, I meant P & K. Did they have a formal agreement?

Idk if P’s rights have been taken away, in regards to parenting. He’s involved in the custody petition. He’s innocent. He’s not been declared guilty. IMO, the baby was not removed from Mrs. F because of impending danger. Rather removed bc k’s mom had quietly, behind the scene, orchestrated a custody petition, making the baby a ward of the state. That’s why, IMO, the baby was taken from Mrs. F. All the time P was under suspicion, he had the child.

MOO MOO[/QUOTE]
BBM

"Orchestrated" ...sounds conniving.

But respectfully, CB was being denied access to her own granddaughter; by PF or his advice -- which was being followed.

The last person that should be victim-blamed is Kelsey's mom.
She will never get to see or hear her daughter again.
Imo, she didn't "orchestrate" anything, but wanted to go about seeing Kelsey's baby in a LEGAL way.

That way was through the court system --she (CB) couldn't just take the baby from PF's mom.
The best path to take is the law-abiding way.
KB's mom understands this.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

I would love to be able scientifically/medically/psychiatrically access the true emotions of defendants like this.

I've witnessed a lot of things and can stand a lot of difficult situations, but I'm afraid this would scare the livin' bejeebees out of me.
MOO, MOO

 

[PrairieWind]

Yeah I'm not sure it's protocol in every arrest but when dealing with something as intense as murder and going to a home where hey know there are guns and a very close family, it might make sense.

Also who knows. Maybe she was carrying on. "I won't let you take my boy!" I don't know.

I think it’s not uncommon. Almost for her safety as for LE’s. Keep her from doing something she would regret later. These are ugly situations and there is no good way to do it, only the least bad way.

 

[Trudie]

I always wonder in these type of cases what is running through the defendants mind. Is it remorse? Sorrow? Regret (my God I can’t believe I did this). Shame? Defiance? Hope (if innocent). Or in the case of a psychopath, nothing, or even satisfaction. I don’t think PF is a psycho though.

I think in county lock up they might be in the “do over” stage. Wishing for a “do over”. Maybe not do the crime, maybe do it dif’, etc.
I’ve followed crime for too many years, read thousands of true crime books, etc. of course I was addicted to Lock Up, lol. It seems to me these guys go to prison & simply adapt to a somewhat military lifestyle. Obviously, they have to adapt. I think prison is not as bad as what we envision.
It also occurs to me after time, they give no thought to their crime. Or, the grief of losing their freedom is similar to someone mourning a death. It gets easier or at least monopolizes less of our mind, over time. Is life in prison a fraternity of sorts? I think so. My sister is a case manager at a large male prison. She’s always astounded at how quickly a new inmate acclimatizes to his situation.



moo

 

[girlhasnoname]

I've witnessed a lot of things and can stand a lot of difficult situations, but I'm afraid this would scare the livin' bejeebees out of me.
MOO, MOO

Ha! I had to go back and ETA for learning (early detection/treatment purposes) because it does sound scary.

 

[MassGuy]

I think it’s not uncommon. Almost for her safety as for LE’s. Keep her from doing something she would regret later. These are ugly situations and there is no good way to do it, only the least bad way.

Yeah, I think this is pretty standard.

I was at a party in college when someone who got kicked out, decided to return with a shotgun.

Police detained all of us (40 or so), until they sorted out who was going to jail or not. We had to sit there with our hands on our heads, and were told to remain quiet.

I may or may not have been in flex cuffs briefly, because I get a bit talkative when I drink.

 

[Seattle1]

Has that been verified?

Closed hearing -- parties not allowed to discuss. Aunt present at hearing with counsel. Perhaps more info will be released at 2/7/19 hearing.

Kelsey Berreth's parents keep temporary custody of her child

The following court document was provided publicly in relation to the custody case:

People v. Frazee – 2018JV26:
The case was set for pre-trial conference today. TCDHS requested closed hearing pursuant to 19-1-106; all parties agreed to closed hearing; Court finds closing hearing to the general public in child’s best interest; Court orders parents not to publicly comment about this D&N case out of concern for child’s best interests; Father was present in custody with counsel; GAL present; counsel for maternal grandparents present with maternal grandparents appearing by phone; paternal grandmother and aunt present with counsel; parties still waiting to review discovery in criminal case before proceeding further; Court finds good cause to extend adjudicatory deadlines; Court reserves right to hearing re: paternal kin motions to intervene & to request contested custody hearing; TCDHS & GAL have discretion to set up kin visitation; Court continues temporary legal custody of child with TCDHS, temporary physical custody with maternal grandparents; reset pre-trial conference to 2/7/19 at 8:30 a.m.

 

[PrairieWind]

I think in county lock up they might be in the “do over” stage. Wishing for a “do over”. Maybe not do the crime, maybe do it dif’, etc.
I’ve followed crime for too many years, read thousands of true crime books, etc. of course I was addicted to Lock Up, lol. It seems to me these guys go to prison & simply adapt to a somewhat military lifestyle. Obviously, they have to adapt. I think prison is not as bad as what we envision.
It also occurs to me after time, they give no thought to their crime. Or, the grief of losing their freedom is similar to someone mourning a death. It gets easier or at least monopolizes less of our mind, over time. Is life in prison a fraternity of sorts? I think so. My sister is a case manager at a large male prison. She’s always astounded at how quickly a new inmate acclimatizes to their situation.



moo

I suppose you are right. But for a guy like PF, a cowboy, used to the open country, the mountains, animals, nature, weather..... prison would be ..... unbearable.

 

[LietKynes]

I think it’s not uncommon. Almost for her safety as for LE’s. Keep her from doing something she would regret later. These are ugly situations and there is no good way to do it, only the least bad way.

LE probably had lapel cams on during the arrest.
It's unlikely they'll release it before trial... but it'd be interesting to hear what was said in either vehicle (PF and SF were driving diff. suvs) !!
We at WS want to know.

Msm has been somewhat unreliable in their coverage of this case. But that's not a surprise.

 

[PrairieWind]

Closed hearing -- parties not allowed to discuss. Aunt present at hearing with counsel. Perhaps more info will be released at 2/7/19 hearing.

Kelsey Berreth's parents keep temporary custody of her child

The following court document was provided publicly in relation to the custody case:

People v. Frazee – 2018JV26:
The case was set for pre-trial conference today. TCDHS requested closed hearing pursuant to 19-1-106; all parties agreed to closed hearing; Court finds closing hearing to the general public in child’s best interest; Court orders parents not to publicly comment about this D&N case out of concern for child’s best interests; Father was present in custody with counsel; GAL present; counsel for maternal grandparents present with maternal grandparents appearing by phone; paternal grandmother and aunt present with counsel; parties still waiting to review discovery in criminal case before proceeding further; Court finds good cause to extend adjudicatory deadlines; Court reserves right to hearing re: paternal kin motions to intervene & to request contested custody hearing; TCDHS & GAL have discretion to set up kin visitation; Court continues temporary legal custody of child with TCDHS, temporary physical custody with maternal grandparents; reset pre-trial conference to 2/7/19 at 8:30 a.m.

Yes but nothing about PFs sister bashing KB.

 

[Trudie]

Referring to the quoted bit in your post :
[QUOTE="No, I meant P & K. Did they have a formal agreement?

Idk if P’s rights have been taken away, in regards to parenting. He’s involved in the custody petition. He’s innocent. He’s not been declared guilty. IMO, the baby was not removed from Mrs. F because of impending danger. Rather removed bc k’s mom had quietly, behind the scene, orchestrated a custody petition, making the baby a ward of the state. That’s why, IMO, the baby was taken from Mrs. F. All the time P was under suspicion, he had the child.

MOO MOO

BBM

"Orchestrated" ...sounds conniving.

But respectfully, CB was being denied access to her own granddaughter; by PF or his advice -- which was being followed.

The last person that should be victim-blamed is Kelsey's mom.
She will never get to see or hear her daughter again.
Imo, she didn't "orchestrate" anything, but wanted to go about seeing Kelsey's baby in a LEGAL way.

That way was through the court system --she (CB) couldn't just take the baby from PF's mom.
The best path to take is the law-abiding way.
KB's mom understands this.[/QUOTE]

 

[dkryder]

JMO
The only problem with that theory is I think there would have had to be pings all along the route in the vehicle because a cell phone will pickup new towers along the way and establish communication with different towers and more pings along the route. We have not heard about any pings along the route and only heard about the ping in Idaho which was first described by LE as maybe even a "false ping" which implied there were not pings along the route.

So all that implies she had to turn on the phone herself when she got there. I dont think PF would rely on her randomly finding the phone to turn it on if he wanted to be sure the texts were sent.

yes. and the ping route may [would] have been exactly what PF wanted. remember, this was supposed to be KB on her way to see family for the holiday. so, a distinct ping map to ID and then 2 texts. that just had to be KB, right? --at least in PF altered reality-- just another hunch, readers. just, in my opinion, another possibility. until it's totally debunked by the facts of course.

 

[GordianKnot]

Yeah, I think this is pretty standard.

I was at a party in college when someone who got kicked out, decided to return with a shotgun.

Police detained all of us (40 or so), until they sorted out who was going to jail or not. We had to sit there with our hands on our heads, and we told to remain quiet.

I may or may not have been in flex cuffs briefly, because I get a bit talkative when I drink.

Haa...you must talk with with your hands.

 

[Noharg]

Yes but nothing about PFs sister bashing KB.

Link, please.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

No, I meant P & K. Did they have a formal agreement?

Idk if P’s rights have been taken away, in regards to parenting. He’s involved in the custody petition. He’s innocent. He’s not been declared guilty. IMO, the baby was not removed from Mrs. F because of impending danger. Rather removed bc k’s mom had quietly, behind the scene, orchestrated a custody petition, making the baby a ward of the state. That’s why, IMO, the baby was taken from Mrs. F. All the time P was under suspicion, he had the child.

MOO MOO

Kelsey's mom orchestrated the removal of the baby?
Kelsey's mom made the baby a ward of the state?

Law enforcement has the responsibility to ensure that children of arrested parents have proper care. That's why LE took the toddler after Patrick, the parent, was arrested. CPS then determined the toddler should immediately stay with Kelsey's mother.

 

[LietKynes]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed due to referencing social media of family members>

Poor Kelsey and her family.

If Kelsey is never found, what is the protocol for cases like this in CO ?
There have been other cases tried w/o a body.

 

[LietKynes]

Kelsey's mom orchestrated the removal of the baby?
Kelsey's mom made the baby a ward of the state?

Law enforcement has the responsibility to ensure that children of arrested parents have proper care. That's why LE took the toddler after Patrick, the parent, was arrested. CPS then determined the toddler should stay with Kelsey's mother.

Agreed, GG.
There's a way that even the least cordial of families can share custody and be civil about it, but , CB was being denied any access to the granddaughter at all ---which speaks volumes.
Sometimes foster care is utilized.. there was no need to this time ,as the baby has a family who loves her.

 

[MassGuy]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed due to referencing social media of family members>

Poor Kelsey and her family.

If Kelsey is never found, what is the protocol for cases like this in CO ?
There have been other cases tried w/o a body.

I’m not sure about Colorado specifically, but it’s become quite common across the US as a whole.

The prosecution has to prove that she is dead, and there’s many ways they can do that.

Sometimes it isn’t one specific thing, and is a combination of factors.

I don’t think they’ll struggle to prove that aspect here, judging by how quickly they said she was dead, and arrested PF.

It’s rarely this quick.

 

[katydid23]

But why do they need to report gossip? Why hasn't such basic information been provided to the media/the public.

There might not be 'basic information' that is accurate concerning the supposed break up. I think it is possible that PF was stringing a few women along, lying to them all. He was telling KB one thing, IN another thing, and his Mom and friends, something different all together.

So the journalists are being fed information from credible sources. Except that PF was telling lies to everyone. JMO