CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #23 *ARREST*

[jaspermac]

Wow you snooze you loose. I was away for a few hours and all hell broke loose. I see a wrongful death suit has been filed by Kelsey’s parents. What else has happened?

nothing much other than that.
But the question we had for an attorney is what is the legal strategy in filing a wrongful death suit this early? Does it help with custody. Does it freeze his assets (which are probably pretty few)?
What do you think?

 

[cluciano63]

I was wondering about that too. Either they don't want to release any pics of him with the family, for obvious reasons, OR maybe he wasn't there. Made some excuse for not being able to be there while KB's mother came for a visit. Was out of town for some "business" with IN or recruiting help to kill her? JMT

I doubt her family is giving any pics with him in them to media or anyone else...jmo

 

[Trudie]

Quick answer, the rules of evidence for criminal and civil are the same. Standards of proof are different

Tysm, PW. The civil suit is a private matter, correct?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Even if they find her body, what does he have to lose by going to trial? Chances are high the media or SM is going to ferret out all the sordid details of any alleged affair, family secrets, his past back to when he learned how to wipe his nose. At least pleading not guilty gets him interaction with his attorneys, he’ll attend the trial, it will occupy some of his time. It might even be entertaining to him. He knows even if sentenced to death it’s unlikely he will be executed, so why not? It costs him not a penny and he’s got nothing left but time. He will be in jail either way, might as well take a chance he can convince a jury he’s not guilty. It worked for Casey and OJ, he’s got a shot too. Imo.

If he’s truly narcissistic, he’s likely enjoying having this control. He knows her family wants her remains and he can continue to be in control of that. Knowing she is out there decomposing and exposed is like the ultimate disrespect. The amount of power they can exert is intoxicating for some people. Imo.

The juxtaposition in posing this question on this case versus the Chris wants case is so very interesting. Is each question that you asked for this case was answered by Chris Watts. In a totally different manner.

 

[BRRI]

I think the filing of a wrongful death suit is very premature and probably a big mistake. What is the purpose? There are potential big traps for KBs parents here and I worry that this is legally not well thought out.

Some of the wording makes me wonder if they may think he was an accomplice and not the primary murderer.

 

[Steelslady]

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
A lot of folks have asked about a report out of Idaho saying a family friend confirmed the FBI are investigating a local woman. I just spoke on the phone with that friend, KC. She said she *did not* confirm that information. @KOAA #PatrickFrazee #KelseyBerreth

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
KC told me she went to high school with the woman allegedly being investigated, saying she'd be shocked if she was actually involved. KC says she's only heard rumors of FBI activity -- much like all of us. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee

(name of family friend changed to initials by me)

Oh you got to love this. After letting the cat out of the bag, when confronted, the back peddling begins.

 

[Gardener1850]

Google IN’s name and you’ll find an article from 2008 that appears to confirm this.

We can't sleuth her yet but it has been confirmed in MSM here: https://heavy.com/news/2019/01/krystal-jean-lee-kenney-idaho/

 

[Concernedmamaof3]

Here are some interesting parts. I do think they tried to keep this all encompassing and general, especially in case charges wind up downgraded, but:

- (Frazee) "acted as either the perpetrator or
accessory to the murder"

-"Upon information and belief, Frazee committed and/or collaborated to commit the
murder of Kelsey Berreth"

-"This matter arises as a result of the death of Kelsey Berreth, who, upon
information and belief, was murdered on or about November 22, 2018, at the direction and/or
hand of Frazee in or about Woodland Park, Teller County, state of Colorado."

-"Upon information and belief, Frazee, by words and/or by conduct, agreed to the
murder and/or coverup of the murder of Kelsey Berreth."

I also thought it interesting they stated,”Upon information and belief, Frazee engaged in such extreme and outrageous conduct before, during, and after the murder, that he did so recklessly and with the intent of causing Plaintiffs severe emotional distress”

 

[dkryder]

i noticed Ms. Ring's name on the court papers.
Megan A. Ring, Colorado State Public Defender
seems to be an interesting lady. found this earlier today,
Boulder public defender Megan Ring taking over state office

also,
Adam Steigerwald (No. 40092) Deputy State Public Defender
so far Mr. Steigerwald has been the one doing the talking for PF in the videos of court proceedings. i did some google and found a few prior cases. i'm looking forward to seeing/reading his work for PF if this case makes it to trial.

PF , IMO, should consider himself lucky to have access to this legal representation.

 

[KSinMT]

Wow you snooze you loose. I was away for a few hours and all hell broke loose. I see a wrongful death suit has been filed by Kelsey’s parents. What else has happened?

IN has been named in the media.

*edited to include a link

Sources confirm identity of woman under investigation in Kelsey Berreth case

 

[trailrunningmrs.]

Look up the term Buckle Bunny.
Rodeos have a lot of athletic and skilled competitors. Some Rodeos have some serious money to be earned. Example, a girl I know brings in $250,000+ a year rodeoing (barrel racing), however it’s also an expensive sport. One event might reward $5000 for the fastest steer take down and tie. But a lot of people that rodeo do it like a person plays the lottery, hoping for a big win. Another friend’s ranch hand is a bull rider and spends more time with bruised ribs and stitches during the season and less time actually working, he saves up in the off season for entry fees.
There is a lot of time waiting around between events. Some people visit the beer garden (lots of people enjoy the whole rodeo from this “viewing location”). Competitors and regular folk could meet here. It’s also possible to meet walking around, or at socials after the actual rodeo (aka the bar).

I hope that helps.

I probably should haven’t said “buckle bunny”, it was before I read that she was actually a rodeo queen and buckle bunny is derogatory. I apologize.

 

[Esma]

I think the filing of a wrongful death suit is very premature and probably a big mistake. What is the purpose? There are potential big traps for KBs parents here and I worry that this is legally not well thought out.

I tend to think they are very careful to follow instructions from those running the case as to not interfere in any way. This had to have been done at the recommendation of the prosecutor's. IMO

 

[BRRI]

I also thought it interesting they stated,”Upon information and belief, Frazee engaged in such extreme and outrageous conduct before, during, and after the murder, that he did so recklessly and with the intent of causing Plaintiffs severe emotional distress”

I am thinking that may be justification for the damages being requested. Extreme and outrageous conduct before/during/after is interesting though

 

[Gardener1850]

Wow you snooze you loose. I was away for a few hours and all hell broke loose. I see a wrongful death suit has been filed by Kelsey’s parents. What else has happened?

MSM named the Idaho Nurse and has been posting her info and pics all over even though LE has yet to confirm they are investigating her. Some articles:

https://heavy.com/news/2019/01/krystal-jean-lee-kenney-idaho/
PICTURED: Female nurse, 32, 'who assisted killer fiance Patrick Frazee' | Daily Mail Online
Family friend names Twin Falls County woman investigated in connection to missing Colorado woman
Sources confirm identity of woman under investigation in Kelsey Berreth case

 

[zecats]

Wow you snooze you loose. I was away for a few hours and all hell broke loose. I see a wrongful death suit has been filed by Kelsey’s parents. What else has happened?

This:
PICTURED: Female nurse, 32, 'who assisted killer fiance Patrick Frazee' | Daily Mail Online

 

[MsJosie]

Mama will take care of it.

But can she/mother pay for civil lawyer while the state pays for his criminal lawyer?

 

[missy1974]

I think the filing of a wrongful death suit is very premature and probably a big mistake. What is the purpose? There are potential big traps for KBs parents here and I worry that this is legally not well thought out.

Can they file that suit when she has a surviving child? I was expecting it to be more on babies behalf, but it doesn't look like it.

 

[Pedrosmom]

In my experience in law, and I am not an attorney, the wrongful death case is usually stayed until the criminal case has gone to verdict or plea. In other words, PF cannot incriminate himself in the civil case in a deposition so nothing will be done to that end. Discovery is broad but I don’t believe a civil case can compromise a criminal case so subpoenas would be quashed. Verified attorneys please chime in. If I’m wrong, please correct. The wrongful death case on the other hand has a lesser burden of proof. I recall this was the situation with the O.J. Simpson case. MOO attorneys please chime in.

 

[PrairieWind]

nothing much other than that.
But the question we had for an attorney is what is the legal strategy in filing a wrongful death suit this early? Does it help with custody. Does it freeze his assets (which are probably pretty few)?
What do you think?

I think it helps with nothing and complicates everything. It could freeze assets but they are few. The parents can’t use this to help discovery for the criminal case. It’s odd. It’s brought in federal court and I don’t think jurisdiction can even be maintained. I think it’s possible this could be dismissed. This just to me is poor legal strategy.

 

[InvSmith]

Let me think about this a little while.

The standard of evidence for civil is clear and convincing and criminal is reasonable doubt which a higher standard of proof so certain evidence and statements are used/said at a different proof. What I think is good is it forces statements now. I doubt the DA will like it.