CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #24 *ARREST*

[Trudie]

BBM. Don't worry, not true. I could have the strongest case on earth, and I still always love a defendant who talks.

@riolove,
So, YOU, Rio, are the prosecutor, how long before you declare this a DP case in effort to get a confession/guilty plea & avoid a trial? Tysm

 

[riolove77]

If someone is talking, maybe an accomplice was given a key, or the location of a hidden key. I think the wording relates to the felony murder/robbery theory, that PF set KB up to be robbed. Some of the other words seem to simply mean a class of person as victim of a crime? Wow - you're a lawyer and you have questions!? lol

I had a question about what claims they are making in their civil suit, yes. I haven't read it.

 

[Trudie]

I’m pretty sure that the cinnamon bun aroma would have gone away by the time anybody else went in that house, which was a week or more later. And if cinnamon buns can overpower bleach at all, I want that recipe!

They would not be certain when someone might enter the home.....right?

 

[PommyMommy]

I tend to agree in that LE has a good understanding of who/what/where/ when and how things happened.... I disagree that don’t have a very strong case..... I just think they are extremely challenged at connecting the dots at this point..... they’ll get there, hopefully!

BBM

For real. Multiple suspects, multiple jurisdictions, a 10-day disadvantage, etc.
MOO

 

[Irmese]

Does anyone else see the irony in having a three page discussion on whether or not alleged murderer(s) would illegally or unethically obtain a drug they may or may not wish to use in their alleged murder plot?

Exactly.

 

[Trudie]

How would this explain then being 1200 miles away from him three days later and continuing to text on the phone and then dispose of it, rather than going to LE?

It would not. IMO

 

[LovesPeace2]

I was just thinking today...if PF did hot shoeing of horses,
he would have access to a portable forge. Either his own
or his 2 other farrier buddies from Florissant who I've uncovered.
A forge is a metal box, can be heated w/ gas or coal and can
get temperatures up to 2500-3000 deg. F., enough heat to
soften steel bars to make "hot" shoes to fit horses better.
The better farriers all have one around me. And they do get
hot, hot enough to make steel bars red hot so farriers can
hammer the steel for shoes.
This would certainly be an easy way to dispose of a body
and remember these forges are portable. some are carried
in the back of pickup, some are on wheels and pulled behind.
Just some food for thought.

That's a scarey thought and very plausible

 

[Ccging]

A few cell phone questions which may or may not have been answered:

Once a text is deleted can it be recovered? In my experience the only way to get the actual wording of a text is from the phone itself correct? I’m wondering if PF was “smart” enough to have someone send the two texts but not smart enough to think about KB’s text history prior to that. Wondering if LE can get the actual text wording without the actual phone? Like on ICloud?

Same question about voicemails on a cell phone.

Any cell phone experts?

I’m really hoping someone was supposed to dispose of KB’s phone, but didn’t.

 

[The Saint]

I don’t think that’s an indication of him being “obsessive compulsive.”

After he killed her, his life and freedom were on the line.

He had all the motivation in the world to clean up the crime scene, no matter if he exhibited this behavior in the past or not.

He may have simply forgotten about those cinnamon rolls, as the cleanup of blood was his number one priority.

Let’s take just a moment to review what’s been revealed so far.

PF has been arrested and charged. Abbreviated, but 1st degree murder and 3 counts of solicitation. THREE counts.

IN has been revealed. KB’s phone texts/pings came from Idaho. It is alleged/suspected that she disposed of KB’s phone. LE has gone to extreme lengths to protect her identity?

TWO people accompanied PF to the dump. WHO were those two people? Where are those two people? Why aren’t we discussing those two people?

IN + Two “Dump People” = THREE

Coincidence? Somebody is talking. Who aren’t we hearing about? Why?

Edited to add MOO MOO MOO

The 2 guys are probably just day workers or staff at the ranchette.
This was after LE had searched the ranchette for the first time.
PF knew he was being watched. He wouldn't be that stupid
to bring incriminating garbage to the waste facility. The workers at the waste place alerted LE that PF was there dumping trash. LE watched
PF from a distance with binoculars. They probably were already well aware of his movements through their surveillance. I imagine GPS devices were stuck on all of his vehicles.
imo

 

[pcrum12]

Sometimes I have to remind myself of what we do know to keep my speculation at bay.

The IN, unless she decided to go on the spur of the moment to WP, had to know what was going to happen.

According to what we know PF was shopping around for someone to kill KB since September 2018.

The murder was Thanksgiving Day. According to LE.

If you know someone is coming to visit you on a certain day you don't pick that day to murder someone UNLESS the person is in on it. So for those who think KK just took the phone and didn’t participate further I don’t think the facts support that theory. IF it was a crime of passion maybe I could lean towards that theory. BUT looking for, solicitating, someone for 3 months sounds like he (they) preplanned it.

KK is up to her cowgirl boots in this situation . JMO

This.... Exactly. My thoughts as well.

 

[Trudie]

I agree...Kelsey probably was very put together when she saw her mom, as mom was expected. Not the same as running to the store for last minute needs.

I totally agree. I’m known to don a bun, jogging outfit & race to the store for a few things. Upon returning, I can take my time showering & hair/make up for the rest of the day. It may have been convenient to go around baby K’s schedule, too.

 

[Trudie]

The 2 guys are probably just day workers or staff at the ranchette.
This was after LE had searched the ranchette for the first time.
PF knew he was being watched. He wouldn't be that stupid
to bring incriminating garbage to the waste facility. The workers at the waste place alerted LE that PF was there dumping trash. LE watched
PF from a distance with binoculars. They probably were already well aware of his movements through their surveillance. I imagine GPS devices were stuck on all of his vehicles.
imo

He was taunting them, imo. Then watching the news. Moo

 

[girlhasnoname]

Did you see the Speculate Speculate part? Just me saying, IN could pass for KB at a distance, IMHO, and maybe the clean up fell to her. pure speculation

Gotcha, it was the 'short, blonde driving Kelsey's car' part that threw me off.

 

[SandyQLS]

^^^That may or may not be credible.

But what if she did so at gunpoint herself?


What if she was sitting out in the truck with the baby, thinking her bf was inside having an argument with his ex? And she had no idea he was killing her?

Then he comes outside, is acting crazy, and she suddenly realizes what is going on? Maybe he was desperate and angry and began threatening her and her children's safety. If he just killed the mother of his child, could she be next? ESPECIALLY because she was a witness to him being there.


"Helping" dispose of the body might just mean she was trapped by circumstances and was forced to go along with him out of fear of retribution. A valid fear, most likely.

I'm sorry, but I have read so many of these posts looking for ways to exonerate IN in this case - I'm not picking on you, I read all your posts, everyone is so smart here. But isn't it just a tad fantastical to present that the solicited, planned for 3 months murder by PF morphs into a gunslinging madman forcing others to do his bidding at gunpoint or else? JMO If IN is involved, or anyone else, they chose to be involved. No pass.

 

[The Saint]

That's a scarey thought and very plausible

I wonder about the fireplace inside the townhome. It's one thing to clean drywall, even a ceiling, or linoleum, bathroom tiles or tub, even most kitchen cabinets. But the upper fireplace is wood, the lower is stone. I don't know how completely wood could ever be cleaned of blood spatter or tissue. Maybe they needed a ladder to reach the upper area.

The right hand edge of the fireplace looks really sharp.
If KB were pushed or fell and hit her head, that could cause a serious blow.

 

[Concernedmamaof3]

I totally agree. I’m known to don a bun, jogging outfit & race to the store for a few things. Upon returning, I can take my time showering & hair/make up for the rest of the day. It may have been convenient to go around baby K’s schedule, too.

It’s called a mom bun for a reason!

 

[Trudie]

I had a question about what claims they are making in their civil suit, yes. I haven't read it.

I read it as exceeding $75k. No cents.

 

[Elizabeth Lavenza]

Was there or has there been any thought to the fact of crime scene contamination? It has been reported that the LE made an initial entry to confirm a "well being" check. Then I read that family members had then gone to her home to confirm she hadn't packed up and left. THEN LE goes back and finds evidence, twice..

I have been fretting about that possibility as well. MOO.

 

[riolove77]

Aren't there exceptions like ones that are listed in this article?
https://www.wklaw.com/knowing-about-a-crime-and-not-saying-anything/

Yeah so this is what I mentioned the other day; for example, aiding and abetting is accomplice liability BUT in addition to knowing about the crime, you have to encourage it and intend for it to happen, knowing that it is illegal.

Mandatory reporting laws for people like teachers/pastors/doctors/social workers, etc. also come into play. But that's a whole different ballpark. It's not the situation where you know Bob is about to kill Cindy and you just don't say anything one way or the other. Without more, Bob would not be responsible.

Between him and God is a different story...but moral obligation and legal obligation definitely don't often cross paths.

 

[riolove77]

But it is still a death...which has not been legally confirmed.

Do we know that? It's very possible they are in the process of having her declared, since they are so certain she was killed, when she was killed, and where she was killed. And that's just what they've told the public...