CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #25 *ARREST*

[OldLadyBlues]

They've been saying this forever about the long turnaround, BUT
I've followed cases that they've rushed the results back much,
much faster. I wonder if having FBI involved put the cases ahead.

First of all only 34 crime labs reported out of 50 states, for those thinking CO doesnt have a crime lab. Secondly, unless the labs have DNA analysts falling over each other, OR the evidence has been fast tracked out of necessity, I don't see most labs being able to turn around DNA evidence under 30-90 (and sometimes longer) days. And thirdly, while the FBI is primo, so are their cases and sometimes we just forget that. Depending what state the evidence was found, who found it, is where it would most likely be examined. In the cases of states having separate investigating units, I have NO clue if their division does the forensic testing or it goes to a state lab as my state has no individual investigative unit like CBI.
Therefore....MOO, MOO and IMHO

 

[cluciano63]

I know of cases where DNA has come back within a weekend when they had something to match against. It certainly can be done. Chelsea King’s murder was one case.

 

[Hatfield]

Yes. I have favored blunt force head trauma in this case if she died in the townhome. The nice thing about a wooden bat or 2×4 piece of wood is that it is easily destroyed entirely by fire leaving no murder weapon. But a weapon like that creates more of a closed head wound without a lot of blood. I actually have been thinking something more like a hammer or monkey wrench to the head. I wonder if some biological fluid or tissue, spatter, went up that fireplace or as others noted the pony wall of the loft.

One other fluid that could lead LE to determine KB is deceased is cerebrospinal fluid. CSF is clear and colorless, and only found in the brain and spinal cord. It would not be seen by the naked eye during cleanup or first LE check, but should have enough blood cells to react to luminol even if the red blood cells are only present from the trauma causing the leakage. I cannot think of a case where CSF was a determinant of death, but advances in forensics and DNA would make that possible.

I tend to agree although I am speculating that he went there with the intention of strangling her to death to leave no evidence but she fought back and struggled with him which forced him to do something that caused blood splatter drops somewhere that LE eventually found in her home.

Sometimes a single drop or two of blood is found in a difficult place to see and that is what ends up getting the perps caught. I watched a lot of Forensic Files cases on TV. LOL

I also think a similar struggle could have taken place if someone tried to inject her with a needle from behind.

So many possibilities right now.

 

[girlhasnoname]

First of all only 34 crime labs reported out of 50 states, for those thinking CO doesnt have a crime lab. Secondly, unless the labs have DNA analysts falling over each other, OR the evidence has been fast tracked out of necessity, I don't see most labs being able to turn around DNA evidence under 30-90 (and sometimes longer) days. And thirdly, while the FBI is primo, so are their cases and sometimes we just forget that. Depending what state the evidence was found, who found it, is where it would most likely be examined. In the cases of states having separate investigating units, I have NO clue if their division does the forensic testing or it goes to a state lab as my state has no individual investigative unit like CBI.
Therefore....MOO, MOO and IMHO

Thanks for a gentle reality reminder

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Trying again because the thread is moving so quickly. Granny posted back a few pages that the vehicle at the sonic was NOT KK's. Was that a misprint in her post, was there some question about whether it was KK or has it been confirmed now that it was KK?

Respectfully stated:
I did not post that the vehicle was not KK's. I don't know what KK drives.

I posted that KK was NOT at Sonic on Thanksgiving (Nov 22nd).

The news station reporter and video showed that she was at Sonic on Nov 24th.

 

[tmar]

I wonder if she decided she wanted a child as she neared thirty. She may have found PF physically attractive, a decent prospect. And getting pregnant by accident is not always so easy, with many ways to prevent it, especially if she was did not partake in premarital sex relations as a rule (if she followed her religion.) She could afford to raise a child on her own, if that ended up being the case.

Maybe PF wanted a child too, or maybe he didn’t want one, until the baby arrived. But I still am convinced custody of the baby is the motive. Otherwise...just leave Kelsey to carry on with her life. Couples split without murder all the time. Jmo

Perhaps Kelsey, as many women do, wanted a child.
Moving away from family, having this child, may have been Kelsey's idea.
She bought a home, was independent having a good job,
with the father helping in child minding.
Maybe, PF just no longer wanted Kelsey in the picture.
MOO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I tend to agree although I am speculating that he went there with the intention of strangling her to death to leave no evidence but she fought back and struggled with him which forced him to do something that caused blood splatter drops somewhere that LE eventually found in her home.

Sometimes a single drop or two of blood is found in a difficult place to see and that is what ends up getting the perps caught. I watched a lot of Forensic Files cases on TV. LOL

I also think a similar struggle could have taken place if someone tried to inject her with a needle from behind.

So many possibilities right now.

True Hatfield, so sad to even think about the COD. It makes me sick this poor innocent woman/daughter/mother/sister, like so many others here on WS, died at the hands of some ill tempered, self centered, non feeling man boy.

 

[Trudie]

I tend to agree although I am speculating that he went there with the intention of strangling her to death to leave no evidence but she fought back and struggled with him which forced him to do something that caused blood splatter drops somewhere that LE eventually found in her home.

Sometimes a single drop or two of blood is found in a difficult place to see and that is what ends up getting the perps caught. I watched a lot of Forensic Files cases on TV. LOL

I also think a similar struggle could have taken place if someone tried to inject her with a needle from behind.

So many possibilities right now.

I’m thinking if a cowboy wished to commit murder & he just so happened to have a friend with medical expertise, what would s/he advise as the fastest/easiest/neatest?
Strangulation, smothering or a fatal blow to the head?

Speculation only

 

[Mountain Misst]

I did not post that the vehicle was not KK's. I don't know what KK drives.

I posted that KK was NOT at Sonic on Thanksgiving (Nov 22nd). She was at Sonic on Nov 24th.

Typical problem with a fast-running thread. People skim and miss the detail.. Kelsey cctv sighting at Safeway was on 22 November. The cctv for IN at Sonic as released by ABC tv was on 24 November - TWO DAYS LATER.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Perhaps Kelsey, as many women do, wanted a child.
Moving away from family, having this child, may have been Kelsey's idea.
She bought a home, was independent having a good job,
with the father helping in child minding.
Maybe, PF just no longer wanted Kelsey in the picture.
MOO.

She seems just the type of woman that could pull it off successfully too!

 

[heartgoesout]

Is there a link for a Sonic video?

 

[Elley Mae]

Let's determine the time she was at Sonic. Look at the photo. The SUV makes a large shadow BEHIND itself. She definitely wasn't paying at Sonic at 12 noon. Which direction does a car drive through this Sonic (east or west)?
View attachment 162954

Here.

 

[BRRI]

I tend to agree although I am speculating that he went there with the intention of strangling her to death to leave no evidence but she fought back and struggled with him which forced him to do something that caused blood splatter drops somewhere that LE eventually found in her home.

Sometimes a single drop or two of blood is found in a difficult place to see and that is what ends up getting the perps caught. I watched a lot of Forensic Files cases on TV. LOL

I also think a similar struggle could have taken place if someone tried to inject her with a needle from behind.

So many possibilities right now.

Unless their was a significant amount of blood found, I think they found something else to cause them to be sure that she’s deceased. You can bleed, heavily, and not be dead, KWIM?

I really think blunt force trauma to the head, with brain matter found. I think they probably either found the weapon used, with evidence on it, or splatter. I say brain matter because they would for sure know she was dead, if brain matter was found.

Does anyone know if a dog hitting on a scent would be enough to declare her dead? I wouldn’t think so, but I’m not sure?

 

[NanZDrew]

PF was so big so it would be easy to do...probably. Do you think there would be some kind of forensic evidence from that (since police found evidence she was dead)? Or maybe there was a cadaver dog hit?

If they had found her early like SW. They could tell from bruising and her eyes. Now the decomposition would be too great most likely. Maybe cadavier dogs.

 

[BRRI]

I’m thinking if a cowboy wished to commit murder & he just so happened to have a friend with medical expertise, what would s/he advise as the fastest/easiest/neatest?
Strangulation, smothering or a fatal blow to the head?

Speculation only

Agree. Strangulation and smothering wouldn’t necessarily leave enough of a trail to be sure she is dead (unless dogs alerted to it), so I think blow to the head is most probable.

 

[Trudie]

Since LE dismantled some part of the duplex during the second search, IMO, someone with knowledge pointed LE to a specific area/item.
Is there another person that has talked, that is not incarcerated? We have no earthly idea what LE is doing.
Did PF maybe tell a friend what & how things went down and that person shared info with LE.
As far as a witness being in danger, I don’t think for one sec it it KK. Becauseeeeeee, LE is not finished with her & she has to be under surveillance. Moo moo moo
Therefore, what kind of danger might she be in?
So, a confidant, perhaps, IMO, went to LE. Someone that a friend of PFs can get to.
If not a confidant, a third party.

 

[MassGuy]

Agree. Strangulation and smothering wouldn’t necessarily leave enough of a trail to be sure she is dead (unless dogs alerted to it), so I think blow to the head is most probable.

Even if dogs alerted to it, it still wouldn’t be enough to determine that she was definitely dead, and killed in that house.

I agree though, I’ve long thought she was beaten to death.

 

[Mountain Misst]

Let's determine the time she was at Sonic. Look at the photo. The SUV makes a large shadow BEHIND itself. She definitely wasn't paying at Sonic at 12 noon. Which direction does a car drive through this Sonic (east or west)?
View attachment 162954

24th November 2018 in Woodland Park, CO, the Sun was at the mid heaven /immediately overhead at 11:50am.

 

[NanZDrew]

I agree. I think she’s spilling little. She’s making LE work for their answers. IF she’s involved, I think a “what to do when LE comes a calling” convo took place & they are adhering to their plan.

This is true because the ID ping info came out before PF was arrested. They would have had plenty of time to come up with a plan.

 

[BRRI]

Even if dogs alerted to it, it still wouldn’t be enough to determine that she was definitely dead, and killed in that house.

I agree though, I’ve long thought she was beaten to death.

I’d agree but wasn’t sure.

It could be data, but I don’t think he was stupid enough to put anything in writing, not with two months of planning. So I tend to think it was something physically found.