CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #26 *ARREST*

[Seattle1]

I have a friend in CA who was married to man and had never divorced him. She had a baby with another man and she found out that her husband was legally the father of her child. She was able to get the divorce and straighten out the legal stuff . Her ex consented to her wishes and was friends w/ the baby's father. This was more than 20 years, the law in CA may have changed.

Lately, there have been several reports in the news of fathers deemed legally responsible for child support for children they found out through DNA were not their biological children. Perhaps another one of those cases of nurture versus nature. MOO

 

[WildWest]

Oh, no! @mustloveco is invaluable! What happened?

Can someone tell me briefly, what is the giant reporting mistake regarding KK?
Was that house shown in news reports not hers?

TIA

The mistake if I follow your question is there is a nurse in So Colo with a similar name, but sleuthers here determined it's a different woman. The news channel pulled that article but it's going around as fact.

She is. There is a second way to verify this as well. Nursys.com is US wide nursing license database. If you put IN into Nursys you can see she does not have any valid or expired nursing licenses in any state other than Idaho.

 

[Trudie]

The more stress on him the better.
Perhaps other women will come forward, portraying PF as the creep he is.
He is sitting in his cell, waiting for the next piece of news to attack his character.
It will all come, before Feb 19, I would hope.
Poor guy!
MOO.

I think for every piece of derogatory info about him, there will be a friend to state the opposite.
I never fully believe comments made by a scorned lover, former employee, etc., people can hold grudges. Moo

 

[Trudie]

Absolutely, this maybe where other people, with knowledge of the crime, started to talk. I'm sure not of their own free will, but after pressure was applied, explaining what charges they could possibly be facing. Suddenly, PF isn't as appealing anymore.

Ita. Phone records may have led LE to them.

 

[The Saint]

Just made my stomach plummet

THE FOLLOWING IS ALL IN MY OPINION ONLY *****

The thing is, it's confusing --- PF wanted people to believe that KB had taken off and gone north. But... he also wanted it to look like a robbery gone bad and she was killed in her home. You can't have it both ways. It doesn't make sense.

Another contributing factor was KB's grandmother being ill in WA.
Maybe KB expressed to PF that she wanted to move back to WA with Baby Girl. Or PF knew KB wanted to visit her grandmother and was afraid that once back in WA, she would want to move back there.

This case reminds me more and more of CW's case.
1. Financial stress
A. PF probably didn't make that much money as a farrier. People knew him to abuse animals.
B. Cattle price were down
C. He's getting older and having to compete with guys in the teens or early 20s in the rodeo competitions
D. After buying the townhouse, KB may have asked that PF start paying child support

2. Custody
A. PF didn't want another man raising hs child
B. PF wanted Baby Girl for the sake of his mother who had lived alone w/PF for 20 years
C. PF would want to block any efforts of KB to move away w/ Baby Girl
D. If KB were dead, he would control Baby Girl and her inheritance + insurance payouts
E. If there was a dispute about PF paying child support, he could have feared that KB would find out and reveal that PF had been understating his income on his taxes for years and/or is involved in illegal money-making activities. It could also piss off his mom if she found out he was making ore money that he told her and she had been supporting him

3. Sexin'
A. PF Didn't want to give up his cozying up w/ rodeo girls
B. His sex life w/ KK may have been very different than KB

4. Don't tell me what to do!
A. PF was sick of answering to his mother about everything
B. PF didn't want to deal w/ KB making demands on him

5. Dads
Where are the dads of PF and KB? It is unusual not to hear from either of them

IMO **** MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

That party would have to file a petition with the court to establish a custody arrangement and visitation.

Well, yes, but I thought the scenario was whether or not one parent can legally take the child from another parent without a custody order. I thought the OP had said generally the parent who has possession of the child would have the last say.
I don't see how that would work for too long, that's why I made the point about LE not being able to enforce visitation without a legal document stating the visitation schedule.
If one parent wants visitation and the other does too, it can get very difficult to prevent the other from taking the child somewhere when they both have equal rights to the child. I don't see how the one who has possession can make the decision as the other parent is also entitled to see the child. That's what I was trying to say and at this point I'm probably not making any sense. Imo

 

[Love Never Fails]

The amount of time that has elapsed at this point really leads me to believe only PF is involved in the day-of actions of the crime. There is just no way another principle to the murder has yet to be arrested.

We have solicitees talking and we have KK, who, if reports are accurate, can expect an accessory charge.

PF knows where she is. If any one of these people did, her location would’ve been revealed by now. Perhaps they’re narrowing down through the witnesses and their conversations with PF.

How about the “sensitive evidence” being sent to CO from ID LE? How do we know that isn’t human remains that FBI was testing? Maybe they are waiting on results for another arrest. jMO

 

[Noharg]

How does that work if that parent wants to keep possession of the child all the time? At one point the other parent will want to visit with the child in their own home, and has every legal right to. Who enforces it without a court order?

Here Child Services link in CO
Parent Information

Father's Rights in Colorado

Edit added 2nd link

 

[Snow Flower]

Does anyone know if KK has a lawyer yet?

 

[Lhughessk]

Is he a diagnosed narcissist? Or diagnosed with any personality disorder?

I don’t think we know anything from PF’s personal medical history. We have no idea whether he has even been evaluated by a professional before, much less been diagnosed with a specific disorder. I think people are forming their own judgments based on what they understand narcissism’s traits to be, and comparing those to what they know about PF. I’m just interested in the thought process among our members that has led to that conclusion.

 

[MassGuy]

Does anyone know if KK has a lawyer yet?

Nope. But she sure as hell needs one.

ETA: @PommyMommy says she has a lawyer, so she must have a lawyer.

 

[Trudie]

@riolove77

Colorado "robbery" laws (explained by defense lawyers)

Iirc, PF is not charged with aggravated robbery.
Therefore, no weapon was involved?

Tysm! You rock!

 

[Jupiter05]

Clayton Sandell‏Verified account @Clayton_Sandell 15m15 minutes ago
This morning the @SheriffTeller served Patrick Frazee with the federal wrongful death lawsuit filed by the parents of his presumed-dead fiancée #KelseyBerreth. Frazee faces a preliminary hearing in his criminal murder case Feb. 19th. @abc @CarolAMcKinley

0 replies0 retweets3 likes

 

[K9Enzo]

Ita. Phone records may have led LE to them.

Yes! I don't think PF really knew the capabilities of LE with cell phone records, WITHOUT even having the phone. Especially if the FBI was involved.

 

[MyBelle]

I'm going to speculate that this was not a "messy" crime scene. With a huge blood clean up, as an example. I say this based of LE believing she was murdered in her home. These were townhomes close together. Gun shots would have been heard. "silencers" don't sound like people think they sound.

I believe he may have strangled her. This would not have happened fast but he was probably strong enough to do it. I don't believe she was given anything to "knock her out" either.

When the family was insistent that her home looked normal, nothing was out of place, with the exception of her phone and purse being gone. I think this held a lot of weight with LE in the first days following her officially being reported missing.

LE however found something, but it was after they went back and really looked again. Maybe even bringing in a new set of eyes.

I think it possible PF either replaced the carpet/rug or didn't clean it thoroughly and it wasn't noticed the first time through.

The large amount of body fluids/blood found during a second search by LE is what lead to the arrest and conviction of Christopher Edwards even though Jessica O'Grady's body has not been found. JMO

 

[MassGuy]

@riolove77

Colorado "robbery" laws (explained by defense lawyers)

Iirc, PF is not charged with aggravated robbery.
Therefore, no weapon was involved?

Tysm! You rock!

They probably can’t prove that a weapon was involved.

I personally believe that PF did use a weapon here.

 

[Sddaisy25]

Maybe you just solved the riddle of why the B's used the federal court for their wrongful death civil suit instead of the CO civil court. Smart giraffe.

I'm not an attorney, however I work in the legal field. A civil case can be filed in federal court when the parties reside in different states, when the case involves federal statutes, or when the case involves the US Constitution. Here, I assume they are invoking diversity jurisdiction since KB's parents reside in a different state than PF.

 

[MsBetsy]

I have a question from the perspective of psychological profiling. It seems like “narcissist” is the go-to word that is used in cases of husbands who kill their wives/kids.

I know generally what narcissism is. But my question is, can a person do what PF or CW allegedly did and NOT be a narcissist? We still know so little about PF - how is it that so many people call him a narcissist even while not having very much to go on? I’m not saying they’re wrong, I just would like to know what factors have gone into forming such an opinion.

Yes, a person can absolutely commit a crime like this and not have a Narcissistic Personality. We don't have anywhere near enough information to determine if this is the case, in my opinion. But it is true that many murders are committed by people with APD or have Narcissistic tendencies. Imo

 

[Mom24]

I have thought maybe the trip to the dump is a red herring. That PF maybe just was helping some friends or someone hired him to haul their trash. I found it relevant that PF didn't get out to unload the trash and the other two men arrived in cars. So maybe he was just hauling the trash for two guys that didn't have pickup trucks of their own.

I think it was a trailer, so quite large, which is maybe???? something his friends borrowed from him. But why go along with them? And why not get out and help them unload?
If it is a red herring, was he going along because he had things he needed to dispose of he wanted to see how closely he was being watched?

 

[Jethro4WS]

Yes, well it's pretty easy to get a paternity test. They were lucky they were able to get along and work it out. Imo

In some states it isn't so simple. Florida, for example, has the presumption that the husband is the father and it is impossible to force a paternity test unless the mother affirmatively declares in a affidavit that the husband is not the father. If she doesn't do so he remains the father and can't contest it. The reason why is that in Florida it is contrary to the "public interest" to have a child who doesn't have a father. Forcing a paternity test without the mother naming someone else and proving that named person is the father, would create a situation where the child would have no father (in the legal sense) which would be contrary to the public interest and therefore a court would not order it. Florida is not unique in this regard.