CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #31 *ARREST*

[Love Never Fails]

JMO
There really is never a good enough reason why these killers do what they do. We need to be thankful we dont think like they do and we cant figure out a good enough reason.

With that said, my best guess is a simple one. I think he was selfish and got tired of knowing what was ahead for him with the shared custody agreements or lack thereof, and the likely attachment his Mom was starting to have with the grandchild.

I think he simply decided that by elminating her he can never have to share the child again and his Mom would basically raise the child for him.
And he gets the added benefit of KK not having any competition around if he was starting to rekindle that relationship.

Very good reasoning. Thank you.

 

[Artis]

Sometimes a deal is made for immunity/reduced charges even before an arrest and I can guarantee it because we had a case here with that happening.

The Holly Bobo case. If I remember right, the guy that ultimately (allegedly) committed suicide in Florida had a deal like that. No charges were initially ever brought down on him and he definitely had some sort of formal deal with LE. He was still free and on his own when he ended up dead in Florida.

Withe phone taken across state lines, could KKL face additional state charges in Idaho, on top of state charges in Colorado as well federal charges? If she gets charged (she better!) then there would be extradition to Colorado, I presume.

If she sent those texts - and who else would have - then she's an accessory, after the fact, at a minimum. I can see no reason she would be given complete immunity. Some deal, yes, but not no charges at all. She knew a murder was being planned and facilitated a false trail after the fact. Please tell me someone like that can't just walk!

 

[ajaylee]

Re: motive.

I don't recall the exact date, but shortly after KB disappeared, she and PF were due in court for a child custody hearing.

I think PF killed her over custody issues and/or child support. I think he had also been trying to quietly build a case against her, possibly for use in court. He told KK (and probably others) that he wanted to kill KB because he was afraid she would hurt their daughter. Someone else - I suspect PF - has also floated rumors that KB 'disappeared' for days at a time without telling anyone and that she hung out with military guys. If there's any truth at all to those stories, I suspect it's that she might have taken a couple days off with a friend/lover when the little girl was safely with her daddy and not felt obligated to tell PF where she was, who with, and what she was doing.

 

[MassGuy]

Re: motive.

I don't recall the exact date, but shortly after KB disappeared, she and PF were due in court for a child custody hearing.

I think PF killed her over custody issues and/or child support. I think he had also been trying to quietly build a case against her, possibly for use in court. He told KK (and probably others) that he wanted to kill KB because he was afraid she would hurt their daughter. Someone else - I suspect PF - has also floated rumors that KB 'disappeared' for days at a time without telling anyone and that she hung out with military guys. If there's any truth at all to those stories, I suspect it's that she might have taken a couple days off with a friend/lover when the little girl was safely with her daddy and not felt obligated to tell PF where she was, who with, and what she was doing.

IIRC, this hearing was not scheduled prior to her disappearance.

If it was, we’d have a pretty clear motive here.

 

[mrstfs]

Self deleted - accidental duplicate answer as massguy

 

[Jethro4WS]

The thing about ranchers is, they don’t like anyone nosing around their money. There’s a lot of under the table transactions that go on to avoid taxes so the less scrutiny, the better. PF in a custody battle would have to provide documentation of his income.

In CO I believe the general rule is that child support is 20% of the combined gross income of both parents, split in two. So simple example - if each of them grossed $75k, then support would be 20% of $150k which is $30k. PF would pay half that, or $15k. This formula can be tweaked if one parent makes a lot more money than the other.

And with some men, particularly in that cowboy/ranching lifestyle, it’s less about the amount of money and more about the loss of control. They hate to have someone else such as an ex or the government telling them what they have to contribute, and then they don’t get any say in how that money gets used. And many fail to understand why they can’t go buy clothes for their non-custodial kid and deduct it from their child support payment.

You can try this calculator here.
Calculate Child Support Payments in Colorado  

 

[Jethro4WS]

Re: motive.

I don't recall the exact date, but shortly after KB disappeared, she and PF were due in court for a child custody hearing.

I think PF killed her over custody issues and/or child support. I think he had also been trying to quietly build a case against her, possibly for use in court. He told KK (and probably others) that he wanted to kill KB because he was afraid she would hurt their daughter. Someone else - I suspect PF - has also floated rumors that KB 'disappeared' for days at a time without telling anyone and that she hung out with military guys. If there's any truth at all to those stories, I suspect it's that she might have taken a couple days off with a friend/lover when the little girl was safely with her daddy and not felt obligated to tell PF where she was, who with, and what she was doing.

The child custody case didn't hit the courts until after the Colorado child services agency took custody of the child on December 21st. Prior to that there were no custody cases pending in Teller County (or any other county in Colorado) involving Kelsey or PF.

 

[InvSmith]

I think this is a bad slip-up in the MSM reporting. The reporting is slipshod and I don't think the interviewer really came at this to find fact, but more of entertainment news. I don't think she really understood what she missquoted.

I don't think it's true

I really hope so.

 

[ajaylee]

Kelsey Berreth and Patrick Frazee were supposed to be in court for a custody hearing

Sorry, I can't find a transcript for this news clip. It's dated December 22 and it references a temporary custody hearing between Berreth and Frazee scheduled for 'next Thursday', ie, December 27.

No information on who requested the hearing and I can't find any more information about it. PF was arrested the day before this news announcement. The news clip says they found the documents online for Teller County District Court.

 

[Artis]

I totally agree and have seen it before too. LE has the agreements written up very carefully by lawyers and there usually is wording that can make the agreement null and void if the person getting the deal is not truthful or if that person was an active participant in the murder itself, if they are claiming they did not participate in the killing.

This could be the reason there is this long delay now with no news about KK. LE is probably fact checking everything and trying to make sure she is not more involved than she is claiming.

Do they ever use such deals to trick the suspect? I mean, tell the suspect something like, "We feel for you and think you were manipulated, after the fact, and we don't think you were involved in the crime - we you? (suspect lies, says no) and so we'll give you this immunity deal (on, say, possession of the phone) and you give us all you have on PK" and then the suspect, KKL, who thinks she can lie her way out of her culpability, ends up talking too much and implicates herself so immunity withdrawn and she gets charged?

 

[Herat]

Kelsey Berreth and Patrick Frazee were supposed to be in court for a custody hearing

Sorry, I can't find a transcript for this news clip. It's dated December 22 and it references a temporary custody hearing between Berreth and Frazee scheduled for 'next Thursday', ie, December 27.

No information on who requested the hearing and I can't find any more information about it. PF was arrested the day before this news announcement. The news clip says they found the documents online for Teller County District Court.

This has been thoroughly disscussed many threads ago.

It was AFTER the murder for the disposition of the minor child.

It was NOT between KB and PF and is not indicative of a prior problem.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Kelsey Berreth and Patrick Frazee were supposed to be in court for a custody hearing

Sorry, I can't find a transcript for this news clip. It's dated December 22 and it references a temporary custody hearing between Berreth and Frazee scheduled for 'next Thursday', ie, December 27.

No information on who requested the hearing and I can't find any more information about it. PF was arrested the day before this news announcement. The news clip says they found the documents online for Teller County District Court.

Right. The filings were made by the Colorado child services the same day they took the child into their custody which was on December 21st.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Do they ever use such deals to trick the suspect? I mean, tell the suspect something like, "We feel for you and think you were manipulated, after the fact, and we don't think you were involved in the crime - we you? (suspect lies, says no) and so we'll give you this immunity deal (on, say, possession of the phone) and you give us all you have on PK" and then the suspect, KKL, who thinks she can lie her way out of her culpability, ends up talking too much and implicates herself so immunity withdrawn and she gets charged?

Well, if you go into an interrogation without an attorney you stand an extremely good chance of exactly that happening.

 

[InvSmith]

Wanted to add, we know the texts were received on Nov 25 also. I don’t recall seeing what time on Nov 25.

We know the text were sent from the victim's phone after the death date. The date LE gave of text sent was 11/25. The phone was in ID, thus the text were sent from that phone by the only person investigated for having the phone and thus had to have sent the texts.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Going along with the time line. Search warrants are served on KK and PF mid December 15-17.

Dec 21:
"Woodland Park police chief Miles de Young said at a press conference Friday that, based on "multiple interviews," investigators no longer believe Berreth is alive.

"We finally received enough information to implicate Patrick in his involvement in Kelsey's death," de Young said."

"De Young described a "methodical, time-consuming, multi-state" investigation that was changing hourly, involving local, state and federal officials working nearly "around the clock" to find Berreth."

Fiancé of missing Colorado mother Kelsey Berreth arrested, charged with murder

 

[Dave F.]

Withe phone taken across state lines, could KKL face additional state charges in Idaho, on top of state charges in Colorado as well federal charges? If she gets charged (she better!) then there would be extradition to Colorado, I presume.

If she sent those texts - and who else would have - then she's an accessory, after the fact, at a minimum. I can see no reason she would be given complete immunity. Some deal, yes, but not no charges at all. She knew a murder was being planned and facilitated a false trail after the fact. Please tell me someone like that can't just walk!

More research: A single ping can be traced to the accuracy of the GPS inside the phone, normally about a 6 meter circle. A search warrant is req’d, and it takes several days for special engineers to perform. Any time a dead phone is turned on, it will wait 3 minutes and then ping. Once communication is established, the phone will periodically query for a stronger signal and will ping that second tower. There is a short lapse before the first connection ends, in which the phone “cuts out”. If the phone doesn’t change location at all, but remains on, the tower will keep it connected for eight hours before breaking off. The FBI forensic unit has search warrants and phones. if the person that sent the two text messages on 11/25 had his/her own phone on hand and turned on in any mode, that phone will have pinged once, but more likely twice, within 8 hours plus and 8 hours minus the time of the ping of the victim’s phone.
My conclusion: If KK sent the texts, she's toast. If she didn't all the rest is just gossip.

 

[Deleted member 718]

We know the text were sent from the victim's phone after the death date. The date LE gave of text sent was 11/25. The phone was in ID, thus the text were sent from that phone by the only person investigated for having the phone and thus had to have sent the texts.

The phone pinged in Idaho after 5pm on 11/25. If we knew what time the texts were sent, we'd have a good guess (KK) who sent them. But what if they were sent 5am 11/25 from Colorado?

 

[GordianKnot]

There was NO way under heaven and on earth that he was going to get the home or control of KB's inheritance as demonstrated by the civil suit. You just don't eliminate a life and risk yours really for the money. She was a problem for him.

BBM: Not if you have half a brain, you don't.
However, this is PF we're talking about here.
Rules of logic simply do not apply for someone who lacks executive functioning skills. JMO.

 

[allboys]

Just a thought. With KB out of the way, PF would get Social Security benefits for baby K until she was 18. That would have been a big help in raising her plus having full custody.

Wonder if KK ever mentioned the fact of SS for baby K? IMO PF was tight with his money, as it was only his, and the fact of paying child support drove him nuts. This could have been a motivator to PF in getting rid of KB.

Well, I guess I lucked out with nice parents. My dad died when I was baby K’s age. My mom and step-dad didn’t keep my SS benefit money for themselves. I can’t remember the specific details now, but I think some of it went toward paying for my college education. I remember the checks were not that significant either. But maybe that’s because my dad didn’t have the chance to accrue that much.

ETA- my point being that I’m not so sure PF would have been getting very much money via Baby K’s SS benefits. But I’m no expert. But one thing I do know is, he won’t ever be getting his hands on KB’s money now. Humph.

 

[Artis]

Someone asked several pages back about the prelim and what it will entail. Sorry, I don’t remember who it was.

Essentially, the point of the prelim is that the prosecution puts forth their case and what they believe it will show so that the judge can determine if there is probable cause for the case to be carried over. So during prelim the prosecution definitely shows their hand. They can put on witnesses and question them. Think of it like a mini trial, except instead of a verdict, the judge determines if the case will in fact go to trial or if there is no probable cause and the suspect must be released.

Don’t worry - that’s not happening here!

Since it's not the actual trial, is everything revealed in the prelim public information?