CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #31 *ARREST*

[Esma]

Another day and no news. What the heck?? I feel like I’ve gone back to square one in my mind, i’ve got nuthin’ that makes any sense today. Can they just unseal the affidavits already?!

 

[jaspermac]

WP Police Chief said on Dec 10 that the town would see a large influx of police types in the next 24 hours. I believe that meant the CBI and FBI. PF's first lawyer said, on the 12th, that PF had surrendered his phone. I take that to mean he did it the day before, or Dec. 11. If he had KK in his contacts or had ever made a call to her, she was destined to be contacted by the FBI asking for her phone. It only took four days (allowing a day for the warrant issue), so I'm guessing her had her in his contacts. The RR's seem to me to have a really high opinion of their influence on a case that is unfolding 800 miles away.

I completely forgot about the cell phone info. If I remember correctly during the press conference (I think post arrest) LE also confirmed that they had alot of evidence that was implied to come from cellphones. I can't remember the wording they used.

people are tied to their cell phones even when they shouldn't be...

 

[susiQ]

Good to know because I am starting to lose faith a bit because we have seen any additional arrests. I keep holding on to the fact they want to know everything they are dealing with and not have missed anything before they charge but it is taking forever...

Not forever, just longer than we'd like I'm convinced it is coming.

 

[Esma]

I completely forgot about the cell phone info. If I remember correctly during the press conference (I think post arrest) LE also confirmed that they had alot of evidence that was implied to come from cellphones. I can't remember the wording they used.

people are tied to their cell phones even when they shouldn't be...

I’m very curious as to the evidence they need to process in Idaho. Could it just be cellphone related they obtained thru warrants? And the evidence that needed tested that was to be consumptive, suddenly it’s not important?

 

[jaspermac]

I’m very curious as to the evidence they need to process in Idaho. Could it just be cellphone related they obtained thru warrants? And the evidence that needed tested that was to be consumptive, suddenly it’s not important?

I think it has to be more than cellphone because they got search warrants for properties.

There has to be a valid reason for a search warrant, that you think based on other evidence that you are going to find a specific things on that property.

So i think they there is more evidence than just cellphone from idaho- but the cellphone data maybe led them to KK in Idaho in the first place

 

[jaspermac]

I’m very curious as to the evidence they need to process in Idaho. Could it just be cellphone related they obtained thru warrants? And the evidence that needed tested that was to be consumptive, suddenly it’s not important?

I could be wrong re the consumptive testing- did they not say they now had info from the lab it wouldn't be consumptive. I thought that was why they didn't go forward with that motion. But i could be wrong.

 

[Dave F.]

Another day and no news. What the heck?? I feel like I’ve gone back to square one in my mind, i’ve got nuthin’ that makes any sense today. Can they just unseal the affidavits already?!

Remember that Colorado has only convicted one person of first degree murder without a body, and imagine how hard it will be to establish motive without more information that is not going to be forthcoming from either the B's or the F's. Right now, the prosecution needs as thorough investigation as possible, and is hampered by detectives for the civil plaintiff's attorneys getting in their way. Likewise, the defense would feel much more confortable with as much information as possible, and is now saddled with working in tandem with PF's private lawyers. I don't think side either is going to press for early anything.

 

[MassGuy]

Remember that Colorado has only convicted one person of first degree murder without a body, and imagine how hard it will be to establish motive without more information that is not going to be forthcoming from either the B's or the F's. Right now, the prosecution needs as thorough investigation as possible, and is hampered by detectives for the civil plaintiff's attorneys getting in their way. Likewise, the defense would feel much more confortable with as much information as possible, and is now saddled with working in tandem with PF's private lawyers. I don't think side either is going to press for early anything.

I’ve followed quite a few “no body” murder cases, and I’ve never seen charges levied as fast as they were here.

I’m absolutely convinced that they have this guy dead to rights.

All this noise is coming from the outside, and has nothing to do with the reality of the investigation.

I couldn’t care less about Colorado’s lack of history with this type of thing, the law is the law.

If they can prove Kelsey is dead, and that PF killed her, he will be convicted.

I fully expect they can and will.

 

[Charlot123]

To me, PF is a typical kind of guy with 'mechanical intelligence'. He likes to work with his hands and with tools, and he knows how things work. He shoes horses, fixes a broken storm door, probably can put in a sturdy fence, repair a leaky roof, dismantle a broken dryer. He looks at a truck engine and knows how it all works together, probably changes his own oil and winter tires.

This type of guy is usually fairly simple. He might catch the evening news, but he mostly watches TV BRO (Bull Riders Only, the most dangerous 8 seconds in sports), rodeo, fishing & hunting, maybe NASCAR and country western music. He would only have passing knowledge of the Chris Watts case, has never read an Ann Rule book and does not watch ID channel.

Look around WS and we have high proportion of females and of nurses. Many nurses have 'investigator' personalities. WS's do watch ID, read Ann Rule, and know details of the Chris Watts case. The whole plot to murder KB seems much too machiavellian for PF - but seems exactly like the detailed web a woman would create.

I have experience bias, and IMO KK is more the driving force, the schemer and leader, and PF is more the co-conspirator acting at her direction. And I do wonder, like you, if she was trying to get back at both PF and KB in one plot. I understand and read with interest the experience bias of others who view PF trying to rid himself of both KB and KK, but I am not buying the 'damsel in distress' fiction the R'S were selling, and, the fiction itself makes KK look more involved than mere accessory after the fact.

Interestingly, the most mechanical, in a talented way, was probably KB. From my experience with the pilots, they seem to be emotional but can keep emotions in check by the sheer force of intellect. They are very smart but humble, explaining their achievements by the technological advancements (“the autopilot does it”). Yet if one ever watched landings with autopilots off, it helps understand how brilliant some pilots are.

The way you describe PF, he is a handyman, a “put things together” guy. Simple? I am not sure as I have zero information about him. He might be smarter that we give him credit for. But it seems he can not calm himself, talk himself out of his fears. I think he might be instigated, if someone says, “I am afraid KB might leave and take the baby”, he will believe it. He can not control his emotions, this is why he hides at the farm where people don’t see him.

I can see how KK can be a schemer and an instigator, and I also can imagine how she can cry when caught, but if she the leader? Again, one has to tell us about prior epizodes of meanness in her life, I have not yet heard it.

 

[Dave F.]

I think it has to be more than cellphone because they got search warrants for properties.

There has to be a valid reason for a search warrant, that you think based on other evidence that you are going to find a specific things on that property.

So i think they there is more evidence than just cellphone from idaho- but the cellphone data maybe led them to KK in Idaho in the first place

They got PF's cell phone on the 11th, got the warrant to search his place on the night of the 13th, and searched on the 14th. There wasn't time to knock on doors in Idaho. Digging up POI's backyards is kind of a southern Colorado thing. They do it a lot, and are getting pretty good at it. They definitely found the sewage leach field. Cadaver sniffing dogs can make a "false positive" on one, but canine handlers are trained to identify septic tanks and ignore them. Apparently nobody told them septic tanks aren't required ahead of the leach field in the mountains. Probably got some really good DNA samples, though!

 

[Charlot123]

I’ve followed quite a few “no body” murder cases, and I’ve never seen charges levied as fast as they were here.

I’m absolutely convinced that they have this guy dead to rights.

All this noise is coming from the outside, and has nothing to do with the reality of the investigation.

I couldn’t care less about Colorado’s lack of history with this type of thing, the law is the law.

If they can prove Kelsey is dead, and that PF killed her, he will be convicted.

I fully expect they can and will.

I hope both he and KK will be convicted.

A punishment is not for the dead. A punishment is for the participants in the crime but maybe even more so, a punishment has a strong learning power for the community. “You don’t conspire to kill someone because these are the consequences for you”.

Even from this standpoint, KK deserves legal consequences.

 

[Dontknow?]

I wonder if a few of the search warrants aren't for Apple to search? If it's protected, it might take a long time. I probably have missed the types of phones being tested. Swift moving threads! Apple disappointed me in a couple of cases. jmo

 

[MassGuy]

I wonder if a few of the search warrants aren't for Apple to search? If it's protected, it might take a long time. I probably have missed the types of phones being tested. Swift moving threads! Apple disappointed me in a couple of cases. jmo

I doubt it.

I think KK is cooperating, so that would mean that if Kelsey’s phone was not destroyed, she knew the password, or it wasn’t password protected.

PF turned over his phone.

KK’s phone would have also been turned over if it was available, and she was cooperating.

 

[Dave F.]

I’ve followed quite a few “no body” murder cases, and I’ve never seen charges levied as fast as they were here.

I’m absolutely convinced that they have this guy dead to rights.

All this noise is coming from the outside, and has nothing to do with the reality of the investigation.

I couldn’t care less about Colorado’s lack of history with this type of thing, the law is the law.

If they can prove Kelsey is dead, and that PF killed her, he will be convicted.

I fully expect they can and will.

The state population of Colorado is less than 13% native born people (I think), and there is deep resentment in that small minority of "old Colorado" against the newer folk like KB. Teller County is 76% "old Colorado" and 24% new. It is by no means impossible, will truly be "a jury of his peers".

 

[riolove77]

Since it's not the actual trial, is everything revealed in the prelim public information?

Prelims are usually open to the public so we’ll know more by then.

 

[susiQ]

Interestingly, the most mechanical, in a talented way, was probably KB. From my experience with the pilots, they seem to be emotional but can keep emotions in check by the sheer force of intellect. They are very smart but humble, explaining their achievements by the technological advancements (“the autopilot does it”). Yet if one ever watched landings with autopilots off, it helps understand how brilliant some pilots are.

The way you describe PF, he is a handyman, a “put things together” guy. Simple? I am not sure as I have zero information about him. He might be smarter that we give him credit for. But it seems he can not calm himself, talk himself out of his fears. I think he might be instigated, if someone says, “I am afraid KB might leave and take the baby”, he will believe it. He can not control his emotions, this is why he hides at the farm where people don’t see him.

I can see how KK can be a schemer and an instigator, and I also can imagine how she can cry when caught, but if she the leader? Again, one has to tell us about prior epizodes of meanness in her life, I have not yet heard it.

Up until now at least, I don't see KK as the "leader" as some members do. Before the R's interview, I was actually giving her the benefit of the doubt and feeling she may be a victim of PF as KB was. My only problem with that was that it appeared she was the one with the phone and why would that be if she was a "nice" person. After the R's so called interview, a completely different feeling came over me about her. I absolutely despise what the R's have done for a number of reasons, but I don't think they were lying about what was told to them by KK's BFF. What is suspect to me is what KK told BFF and why. I'm left with this gut feeling that KK is up to her eye balls in this, even if she wasn't present when KB was murdered, and I'm not 100% sure she wasn't. At this point, I don't think anything would surprise me. What I hope, is that LE are thoroughly fact checking whatever story she is selling. I believe PF is exactly where he should be. I just feel he should have some company

 

[Dave F.]

I doubt it.

I think KK is cooperating, so that would mean that if Kelsey’s phone was not destroyed, she knew the password, or it wasn’t password protected.

PF turned over his phone.

KK’s phone would have also been turned over if it was available, and she was cooperating.

Because they dominate market penetration in the areas where the phones might have been purchased, there is a good chance they are all 3 served by Verizon. There were three warrants, one to search for KB's ping and two text messages, one to seize KK's phone, and another search KK's pings and calls on Nov 21 thru 26 (or so). I doubt if it was password protected. KB was a loner who didn't use credit and likely carried a protected debit card. There was absolutely no chance of her losing it in a tavern or some other embarrassing place, and a good chance that if she did lose it, and called her own number, someone would pick it up and swipe once to answer.

 

[MassGuy]

Up until now at least, I don't see KK as the "leader" as some members do. Before the R's interview, I was actually giving her the benefit of the doubt and feeling she may be a victim of PF as KB was. My only problem with that was that it appeared she was the one with the phone and why would that be if she was a "nice" person. After the R's so called interview, a completely different feeling came over me about her. I absolutely despise what the R's have done for a number of reasons, but I don't think they were lying about what was told to them by KK's BFF. What is suspect to me is what KK told BFF and why. I'm left with this gut feeling that KK is up to her eye balls in this, even if she wasn't present when KB was murdered, and I'm not 100% sure she wasn't. At this point, I don't think anything would surprise me. What I hope, is that LE are thoroughly fact checking whatever story she is selling. I believe PF is exactly where he should be. I just feel he should have some company

I see this the same way. I don’t think she instigated this, or was the one pulling the strings.

I do think she is complicit however, and is more involved than simply sending those texts, and transporting the phone.

I wouldn’t be the least bit disappointed to see her join her cowboy behind bars.

 

[riolove77]

This is interesting..

In 2003, 20-year-old Ryan Holle loaned his car to his roommate, who proceeded to drive with several accomplices to steal a safe from an acquaintance’s house. When they found a woman at home, one of the accomplices beat her to death. Holle, who was miles away at the time, is serving life without parole in Florida.

It makes you wonder with all the people who knew various things prior to the crime, and may or may not have helped out in any way. Even as simple as borrowing a cell phone to communicate for a short period of time.

Would LE go so far as to lay charges?

Or is the example above just an outlier and not the norm- where charges usually aren' t laid??

Did Ryan know they were using it in a robbery? If so he’s serving life likely under felony murder.

 

[Dave F.]

I’m very curious as to the evidence they need to process in Idaho. Could it just be cellphone related they obtained thru warrants? And the evidence that needed tested that was to be consumptive, suddenly it’s not important?

The consumptive test motion is standard in every major Colorado trial. Back in the early days of DNA evidence, the Colorado State Crime Lab (now the CBI) had an extremely thorough, but very consumptive DNA testing procedure. That's all I know.