CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #31 *ARREST*

[Gunslinging Granny]

Because they dominate market penetration in the areas where the phones might have been purchased, there is a good chance they are all 3 served by Verizon. There were three warrants, one to search for KB's ping and two text messages, one to seize KK's phone, and another search KK's pings and calls on Nov 21 thru 26 (or so). I doubt if it was password protected. KB was a loner who didn't use credit and likely carried a protected debit card. There was absolutely no chance of her losing it in a tavern or some other embarrassing place, and a good chance that if she did lose it, and called her own number, someone would pick it up and swipe once to answer.

Three warrants? Are you sure that?
There's no evidence that Kelsey ever went into taverns and "embarrassing places".

There's also no evidence that Kelsey was a "loner". She was a hard-working, very busy woman who had a new baby. Those activities prevent a lot of socializing.

 

[MsJosie]

They got PF's cell phone on the 11th, got the warrant to search his place on the night of the 13th, and searched on the 14th. There wasn't time to knock on doors in Idaho. Digging up POI's backyards is kind of a southern Colorado thing. They do it a lot, and are getting pretty good at it. They definitely found the sewage leach field. Cadaver sniffing dogs can make a "false positive" on one, but canine handlers are trained to identify septic tanks and ignore them. Apparently nobody told them septic tanks aren't required ahead of the leach field in the mountains. Probably got some really good DNA samples, though!

Source please....would like to read the entire article or report

 

[Artis]

No, no something is wrong or being misinterpreted here.

You can get life if you helped and didn't even know that the intent was to murder.

Interesting article to read.
In the U.S., You Can Get Convicted of Felony Murder Without Killing Anyone. This Case Shows That Needs to Change.

Accessory to a Crime (C.R.S. 18-8-105) in Larimer, Grand or Weld County, occurs if a person intends to "hinder, delay, or prevent the discovery, detection, apprehension, prosecution, conviction, or punishment of another for the commission of a crime".

Complicity (C.R.S. 18-1-603), on the other hand, is a crime in which "[a] person is legally accountable as principal for the behavior of another constituting a criminal offense if, with the intent to promote or facilitate the commission of the offense, he or she aids, abets, advises, or encourages the other person in planning or committing the offense." The person charged does not have to be present when the crime is committed.

So, Complicity involves assistance before the crime and Accessory involves assistance after the crime.

If acting in complicity with another, you will be charged the same as the person committing the crime. If acting as an accessory, you will be charged with a lesser felony if the underlying crime is a felony, or with a petty offense, if the underlying crime is a misdemeanor.

There is no way you get a light sentence. If you look at complicity- it is as simple as having those conversations prior to the murder about murdering KB. Each time you have KK had a conversation with PF about it she was enabling and encouraging him by continuing that conversation. There have been other cases in Colorado where the secondary person involved got hammered just because they discussed it. Same sentence as the one who did the deed.

Accessory- got 9 yrs after pleading down to lesser charges
Accessory gets 9 years – The Denver Post

I am sure the the verified lawyers (@riolove77 , @gitana1 , @PrairieWind ) on the site can provide better insight into this than I can

I don't agree with mandatory sentencing or the ridiculous expansion of federal law into matters it has no business being involved in and how it's used as a weapon. I think our "justice" system is morally bankrupt, as well. I would be terrified to find myself subjected to it because I don't have faith in it. Sometimes, it gets stuff right, though, and you always hope that will be the case.

Neither of those stories are comparable to covering up for a murderer, after the fact. The story about the kid is a travesty and illustrates the absurdity of mandatory sentencing and this felony murder stuff. There's no allowing for all of the nuance and individual circumstances that is real life. While that kid did very wrong, he obviously was not as culpable as the killer. Ten years in solitary confinement on top of life in prison?! Dear God. I hope he ended up getting out. He more than served his time.

That other story has someone actually involved in the planning and set up of a murder so, it's murder.

When someone is a willing accessory after the fact, they show complete contempt for the life taken and could actually facilitate a murderer not getting caught. That's their intent - to keep a murderer free, whether by disposing of a body or evidence of the murder or, in this case, with the very limited amount we know, creating a diversion to throw LE off track and delay action.

MOO

 

[bonjoviblonde]

The state population of Colorado is less than 13% native born people (I think), and there is deep resentment in that small minority of "old Colorado" against the newer folk like KB. Teller County is 76% "old Colorado" and 24% new. It is by no means impossible, will truly be "a jury of his peers".

How could you possibly know this? Deep resentment for new folks? Where are you getting these percentages?

 

[Dave F.]

I’m very curious as to the evidence they need to process in Idaho. Could it just be cellphone related they obtained thru warrants? And the evidence that needed tested that was to be consumptive, suddenly it’s not important?

The "consumtive evidence" motion is standard fare at any major trial in Colorado. I think it started several years ago when the Colorado State Crime Lab (forerunner of the CBI) used a very thorough but also very consumptive DNA test procedure; but I haven't got a

Source please....would like to read the entire article or report

If you are asking about the leach field, it's obvious from the drone video online. The septic system has to be downhill from the house, and is shaped very much like a clam rake laying flat. The ground drops sharply into a gully just beyond the end of it, and the rest of the downhill slope is driveway, which it can't be under. The state building codes and environmental laws are very specific about exactly how it is to be built and what shape it must have. The were no other disturbed eath areas in the video.

 

[Dave F.]

I don't agree with mandatory sentencing or the ridiculous expansion of federal law into matters it has no business being involved in and how it's used as a weapon. I think our "justice" system is morally bankrupt, as well. I would be terrified to find myself subjected to it because I don't have faith in it. Sometimes, it gets stuff right, though, and you always hope that will be the case.

Neither of those stories are comparable to covering up for a murderer, after the fact. The story about the kid is a travesty and illustrates the absurdity of mandatory sentencing and this felony murder stuff. There's no allowing for all of the nuance and individual circumstances that is real life. While that kid did very wrong, he obviously was not as culpable as the killer. Ten years in solitary confinement on top of life in prison?! Dear God. I hope he ended up getting out. He more than served his time.

That other story has someone actually involved in the planning and set up of a murder so, it's murder.

When someone is a willing accessory after the fact, they show complete contempt for the life taken and could actually facilitate a murderer not getting caught. That's their intent - to keep a murderer free, whether by disposing of a body or evidence of the murder or, in this case, with the very limited amount we know, creating a diversion to throw LE off track and delay action.

MOO

Well stated! You should run for the Colorado legislature. They need a clear mind at work.

 

[Artis]

Did I quote your post?

Did I say you were misinterpreting?

I only responded to artis and let him know what I know re sentencing and 2-6 yrs.

But okay...

I'm a she

 

[The Saint]

Because they dominate market penetration in the areas where the phones might have been purchased, there is a good chance they are all 3 served by Verizon. There were three warrants, one to search for KB's ping and two text messages, one to seize KK's phone, and another search KK's pings and calls on Nov 21 thru 26 (or so). I doubt if it was password protected. KB was a loner who didn't use credit and likely carried a protected debit card. There was absolutely no chance of her losing it in a tavern or some other embarrassing place, and a good chance that if she did lose it, and called her own number, someone would pick it up and swipe once to answer.

Hold the phone... a tavern is an embarassing place?

 

[Dave F.]

Hold the phone... a tavern is an embarassing place?

For a Seventh Day Adventist such as KB......a resounding Yes! For me, not so much.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

Because they dominate market penetration in the areas where the phones might have been purchased, there is a good chance they are all 3 served by Verizon. There were three warrants, one to search for KB's ping and two text messages, one to seize KK's phone, and another search KK's pings and calls on Nov 21 thru 26 (or so). I doubt if it was password protected. KB was a loner who didn't use credit and likely carried a protected debit card. There was absolutely no chance of her losing it in a tavern or some other embarrassing place, and a good chance that if she did lose it, and called her own number, someone would pick it up and swipe once to answer.

What's the source for this?

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

@DaveF.
It's okay to post IMO (in my opinion) after statements if you don't have a link.

 

[The Saint]

It is possible. One of the news stations out of Colorado was up in Hansen, ID and they were showing a house with no trespassing signs and a chain. However, the place they were showing doesn't look like what we see in the photo at the top of the article. And the place they were showing didn't looking like any of the properties associated with addresses connected to KK. To me, the place they had shown on the Colorado news station looked just like a home with the right house number but on the wrong road.

In that county there are roads named with two directionals. For example, North XXXX East where XXXX is a number and part of the street name (not the house number). There also may be a road named East XXXX North where XXXX is the same number in the previous example. So, if that gets mixed up you can easily end up at the right house number on the wrong road.

It sounds like they need to hire a CO scout.

 

[The Saint]

For a Seventh Day Adventist such as KB......a resounding Yes! For me, not so much.

KB was posting girlie drink recipes on her Instagram. She had a baby out of wedlock. I think she was venturing outside of the strict tenets of the religion in which she was raised.
imo

 

[The Saint]

To me, PF is a typical kind of guy with 'mechanical intelligence'. He likes to work with his hands and with tools, and he knows how things work. He shoes horses, fixes a broken storm door, probably can put in a sturdy fence, repair a leaky roof, dismantle a broken dryer. He looks at a truck engine and knows how it all works together, probably changes his own oil and winter tires.

This type of guy is usually fairly simple. He might catch the evening news, but he mostly watches TV BRO (Bull Riders Only, the most dangerous 8 seconds in sports), rodeo, fishing & hunting, maybe NASCAR and country western music. He would only have passing knowledge of the Chris Watts case, has never read an Ann Rule book and does not watch ID channel.

Look around WS and we have high proportion of females and of nurses. Many nurses have 'investigator' personalities. WS's do watch ID, read Ann Rule, and know details of the Chris Watts case. The whole plot to murder KB seems much too machiavellian for PF - but seems exactly like the detailed web a woman would create.

I have experience bias, and IMO KK is more the driving force, the schemer and leader, and PF is more the co-conspirator acting at her direction. And I do wonder, like you, if she was trying to get back at both PF and KB in one plot. I understand and read with interest the experience bias of others who view PF trying to rid himself of both KB and KK, but I am not buying the 'damsel in distress' fiction the R'S were selling, and, the fiction itself makes KK look more involved than mere accessory after the fact.

We don't know whether PF is as you described. He could be watching Dancing with the Stars and re-runs of Downton Abbey for all we know.

We do know that he made 3 solicitations trying to get someone to murder KB. We do know that he abuses animals.

Previous threads were closed, so I couldn't post a replies on the matter of PF abusing horses and dogs (not your posts, Sandy).

Not every rancher, farmer, horseman or woman has to be the Horse Whisperer or Dog Whisperer when training dogs, but there is NO EXCUSE for abusing animals -- EVER! It's not teaching them a lesson. It is animal cruelty.

Monty Roberts doesn't "break" horses. He forms a partnership with them.

imo

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[SFDukie]

J & PR present very odd behavior for legal professionals, IMO. They have made speculative statements to the press based (at best) on hearsay from their employee M, about KK.
Why would a lawyer and legal professional speak with anyone other than LE?

 

[Artis]

to me..anyone credible should not be talking to the media..maybe I'm wrong, but I sure wouldn't be. All of these people come out now...where were they when KB was alive and needed their help?

The more they all talk, the better it is, imo. Even if they lie, people get tripped up on lies and it could eventually lead to the truth as they get grilled on everything they've said, by LE. I hope LE has some good grillers this time. It's not always the case.

 

[Artis]

You captured it.

It makes no sense.

But I don't think it ever really makes sense, there are always better options.

His mind is not the same as the vast majority of the population. He's an outlier. I hope..

In cases where the perp knows the victim, and other than killing children, I don't think I've ever seen someone so harmless as Kelsey. She wasn't some controlling hag; she wasn't trying to screw him out of money or property; she wasn't a liability in any way. Had her own place and a decent job with a promising future. Her last conversations with her mom didn't indicate distress, as though she and PF got in some big fight. She strikes me as though if they'd broken up that she'd still be fair with making sure he had quality time with baby K. I just don't see anything that would have provoked him. All I can think of is that he was afraid she might leave Colorado, with the dissolution of marriage plans, and feared losing the baby.

 

[Artis]

Can't wait to find out what led them there.
According to the R's:
It wasn't them (they talked Dec 17)
It wasn't KK
It wasn't BFF, otherwise she would have told the R's

I'm thinking it's either someone KKL blabbed to or that the BFF or Rs told a friend and someone had the sense to contact LE.

 

[Artis]

No, he threatened to many times, and had been physically abusive. He said he’d rather do it himself, but didn’t want to get caught. He was killed in a plane crash before the divorce was final but leading up to that I would wake up every morning honestly surprised I wasn’t dead yet. He was very cunning and very capable. There’s no telling if I’d have survived if I’d gotten custody. I consider myself very lucky.

OMG, Haven, you must have been so relieved when he died in that crash. I would have been. He sounds like he wasn't messing around and probably would have you killed or seriously harmed. God bless you and I'm glad for you and your kids that that threat was eliminated.

 

[NoeticSoul]

Sending love to everyone here! This day has been one of particular controversy and disagreement on this thread. I will blame the full moon coming up and lack of any recent official info on this case! BREATHE everyone. Just remember to agree to disagree for now, we will learn the truth soon. moo Sweet dreams good night!

eta prayers to KB's family is what matters most right now!