CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #32 *ARREST*

[Printcess]

I wanted to reply and thank everyone for their well thought out responses and comments, but there were so many when I got back that I didn't quote them all. The reason I've been following this thread is because you all seem to care so much and it's generally lovely. I understand that tensions are running high, especially when there seems to be little momentum towards justice for KB. I also wasn't trying to call anyone out for being intentionally sexist. I do feel that its engrained in society, and I try to point it out when I think I see it.

Also, and just a thought, but I keep thinking that there were never supposed to be any texts from KBs phone. I think PF called KK in a panic and she drove for a bit in a futile effort to cover her tracks and sent the texts. Thats why there were no pings until ID.

All of this, just opinions... Thanks again lovelies!

 

[InvSmith]

<modsnipped quoted post>

Just to add I personally think KL is a pretty woman. I know everyone is trying to determine motive by comparing the two women. Often appearance isn't everything. KB is completely adorable in my opinion.

 

[jaspermac]

I agree, I believe they have a truck load of evidence against him, with or without her talking. I'm just finding myself suspicious of KKL and how she may try to mitigate the charges coming her way by telling some fibs or outright lies since I feel she is in so much deeper than the just the phone. As MG said, it's only natural for her to try and deflect as much of the blame away from herself. I'm confident LE and the DA know what they're doing.

If she is telling some outright lies, which she may be, I think that is just to try and help her cause.

I think someone who goes the route of becoming a Rodeo Queen probably has the need for others to like her. And she was known- according to a sample of 1, as one of the best Rodeo Queens ever.

If she has this strong need for people to like her, imagine the cold reality of suddenly realizing you are going to be hated. So maybe that inspired the victim card to be played or to be spun deeper than it really was.

I agree I don't think this is just the phone. If you are going to agree to a phone, my guess is you are going to agree to other things as well.

You can't tell me that her BFF who works for a lawyers office didn't tell her about charges for being complicit or accessory after, prior to her doing anything. At the very least BFF would have googled it .

KK knew what she was doing and for whatever reason couldn't stop herself from helping PF.

 

[WildWest]

There are quite a few large, construction dumpsters at work sites for new houses, the new natural grocers, etc. but I feel like if he used any dumpster, he would have to know WHEN that specific garbage was being collected.

Makes me wonder if that was deciding factor on choosing that particular day (in conjunction with Holiday weekend).....

 

[MassGuy]

Agree that it was a perfect setup for PF. Could get the admiration and ego boost from KB and KK, and not to be underestimated, from his mother.

At some point, the perfect setup became extremely imperfect for PF. When? Certainly no later than September given the first solicitation for murder reportedly occurred then.

What changed in September? The solicitee(s) was more available or more intimately invested? Or KB has new romantic interest ( none that we’ve heard of)?

Puzzled by the timing of stuff.

I know, I’m asking the same questions:

Why? And why now?

What happened in September that led to his plan being set in motion?

I still haven’t seen anything that gives an indication as to what precipitated this.

It exists, obviously, but we can only guess at this point.

 

[Dave F.]

If she is telling some outright lies, which she may be, I think that is just to try and help her cause.

I think someone who goes the route of becoming a Rodeo Queen probably has the need for others to like her. And she was known- according to a sample of 1, as one of the best Rodeo Queens ever.

If she has this strong need for people to like her, imagine the cold reality of suddenly realizing you are going to be hated. So maybe that inspired the victim card to be played or to be spun deeper than it really was.

I agree I don't think this is just the phone. If you are going to agree to a phone, my guess is you are going to agree to other things as well.

You can't tell me that her BFF who works for a lawyers office didn't tell her about charges for being complicit or accessory after, prior to her doing anything. At the very least BFF would have googled it .

KK knew what she was doing and for whatever reason couldn't stop herself from helping PF.

Small point, but if teenaged girl was already the most popular girl in school, and also loved rodeo, would she throw her hat in the ring of queenship for more attention or for love of rodeo? And if she did it a second year, and won again; would it be because there were still lines of rodeo types wanting to give her more attention yet?

 

[Printcess]

If she is telling some outright lies, which she may be, I think that is just to try and help her cause.

I think someone who goes the route of becoming a Rodeo Queen probably has the need for others to like her. And she was known- according to a sample of 1, as one of the best Rodeo Queens ever.

If she has this strong need for people to like her, imagine the cold reality of suddenly realizing you are going to be hated. So maybe that inspired the victim card to be played or to be spun deeper than it really was.

I agree I don't think this is just the phone. If you are going to agree to a phone, my guess is you are going to agree to other things as well.

You can't tell me that her BFF who works for a lawyers office didn't tell her about charges for being complicit or accessory after, prior to her doing anything. At the very least BFF would have googled it .

KK knew what she was doing and for whatever reason couldn't stop herself from helping PF.

Did they (the Rs or reporter) ever say what BFF does at the law firm? I just don't get why KK would tell anyone if she planned on being involved.

Everyone said they were terrible, so I didn't watch the interviews. I relied on you guys to keep me to to date

 

[Dave F.]

Did they (the Rs or reporter) ever say what BFF does at the law firm? I just don't get why KK would tell anyone if she planned on being involved.

Everyone said they were terrible, so I didn't watch the interviews. I relied on you guys to keep me to to date

As pointed out in previous posts, attorneys who specialize in Personal Injury often employ experts, insiders or snitches. "Employee" doesn't have to mean someone who sits in their office. Who knows, maybe she's the RR's cleaning lady? IMO

 

[SFDukie]

Her initials legally are KL?

I don't know. I believe her initials were KK, became KL on marriage. I've seen KK, KL, KKL, used, here. I may be missing other combos
Rodeo associate shows support for woman investigated by FBI

 

[katydid23]

If I used my car during a crime, I would not blatantly park in the drive in an unusual way, in broad daylight, on a holiday. I’d park a few blocks away, I think.
Especially if I planned the crime for months. My vehicle & what to do with it definitely would have been considered.
Moo

But if you planned a crime, but were also planning to admit that you were there, to pick up your child, wouldn't you park in the same manner you usually did, so it didn't seem out of the ordinary?

 

[SoVeryMe]

Did they (the Rs or reporter) ever say what BFF does at the law firm? I just don't get why KK would tell anyone if she planned on being involved.

Everyone said they were terrible, so I didn't watch the interviews. I relied on you guys to keep me to to date

Maybe at first KK was so shocked by the solicitation she didn’t even consider it. We don’t know the true context of the dialogue between KK and her BFF. Was it “oh my gosh! PF asked me to kill KB for him! Should I tell someone? He clearly is out of his mind!!! Or “PF said the only way we can move forward in our relationship and parent little K together is to get rid of KB”.

 

[GordianKnot]

I'm confused about the K being

Agree that it was a perfect setup for PF. Could get the admiration and ego boost from KB and KK, and not to be underestimated, from his mother.

At some point, the perfect setup became extremely imperfect for PF. When? Certainly no later than September given the first solicitation for murder reportedly occurred then.

What changed in September? The solicitee(s) was more available or more intimately invested? Or KB has new romantic interest ( none that we’ve heard of)?

Puzzled by the timing of stuff.

YAMB. I'm hoping that in 32 days we get a glimpse from the affidavit of what drove the timing of KB's murder, because the timing was more than likely closely linked to the motive.

 

[Printcess]

Maybe at first KK was so shocked by the solicitation she didn’t even consider it. We don’t know the true context of the dialogue between KK and her BFF. Was it “oh my gosh! PF asked me to kill KB for him! Should I tell someone? He clearly is out of his mind!!! Or “PF said the only way we can move forward in our relationship and parent little K together is to get rid of KB”.

This makes sense.

Two months is an quick turn on convincing someone to help with or cover for a murder! Maybe PF should represent himself

MOO

 

[Hatfield]

It's easier to believe when a friend tells you their baby mama takes off a lot than it is to believe your friend is a murderer. With the former, you're unlikely to ask for proof. You just take your friend's word it. With the latter, you are definitely going to want to see proof because A) you can't believe your friend is a killer and B) the seriousness of the assertion.

....snipped rest for focus on above....

JMO
I totally agree but want to add a "C" that I didnt see discussed unless I missed it.

"C" would be because people that are friends (not KK) or close with someone who ends up guilty of a serious crime like this do not want to believe they could have been "duped" by him and not know he had such a very dark side to him.

Admitting that you have been close friends with a murderer is just so "out there" that you dont want to believe its even possible you were giving the guy the time of day, let alone being very close friends with him. Maybe even having him over for dinner or having him around your kids. Admitting that is like admitting you yourself somehow failed and missed the fact he was capable of that.

The thing is though, people are duped all the time by people like PF and so it is not something to really feel bad about if you truly did not notice anything bad about him. I am sure the close neighbor friend of Robert Durst did not expect him to end up killing him and dismembering him.

Its just very hard to accept that you were associating with someone that could be so evil. It normally is not a reflection on the friends at all so long as they really were not aware of anything and just were duped by them. Also sometimes people are nice until they are not. So if PF has never killed anyone till now then of course his friends would not notice or expect him to. Just like KB was likely duped by him.

 

[Deleted member 718]

I know, I’m asking the same questions:

Why? And why now?

What happened in September that led to his plan being set in motion?

I still haven’t seen anything that gives an indication as to what precipitated this.

It exists, obviously, but we can only guess at this point.

My very first theory was he thought Kelsey might be moving on with another man. I'm not sure how I feel about that now.

 

[WildWest]

<modsnipped minor's name> As MassGuy reminded me, she was likely named that because of her mom being named Kelsey. KB likely chose the name. My friend just thought it was quite the coincidence.

I'm taking pause that both children have similar names to the father's "other" person. I went back and forth on the Watt's case but here it is again. That said I have heard of daughters having similar first names to the father or mother, but you post is really interesting. Another member posted here recently she puts PF in the "having an affair" catagory , there are similarities LNF.

 

[SFDukie]

By rule, pilots should file a flight plan for every flight, but many private pilots of small planes don't. There is no enforcement Likewise, there are seven classes of airfield/airport ranging from 1st (Denver International) to 7 (bladed strip, windsock, rudimentary safety elements for takeoff and landing). Point A to Point B can be from ranch to ranch. There are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of small planes hangered or tied down across the west. If a small plane has the right navigation/communication system, it will be tracked and can be identified by it's call sign. The night before last, I tracked one flying directly over Gooding, Idaho on planefinder.net. If it does not have the equipment, or has it turned off, it's just up there all alone, like almost like Charles Lindbergh.
IMO

"By rule, pilots should file a flight plan for every flight"
No. I can't prove a negative. You're wrong about that. If you personally, want to assert that pilots should file a flight plan for every flight, that's your opinion. But when you state "by rule"-you're just flat out wrong. There is no such rule.

 

[acutename]

what I do not understand about this case:

1. Assuming you are PF, how can you have intense hatred for KB but still have love and concern for little K? And since we have been talking about looks, little K, KB and CB all
look strikingly similar, so there is a great chance that as she grows older, little K would just look and maybe even sound and act more and more like KB and CB. I totally understand that there are people who hate their "baby's parent" and not the baby, but in this case I think the disconnect needed here is a big one.

2. Why does PF want little K? If he really wants to be "free," why does he want a baby? I think it is common that actual kidnappers abandon children because they require a lot of time and attention. Granted he apparently has help at home, but why does he want the baby?

3. Even though KB seemed to be self sufficient and independent, not so long ago she was 7,8,9, mos pregnant. Who drove her to drs' appts? Who drove her and the baby to follow up appts? Who helped her in the first few months after she gave birth? If it was PF, then he must have felt or acted as if he felt concerned for her and her welfare. Or was he never this solicitous? Did she go home to her parents during this time?

Do not understand the motives here really. Read posts on and on but I do not get it.

 

[Dave F.]

I know, I’m asking the same questions:

Why? And why now?

What happened in September that led to his plan being set in motion?

I still haven’t seen anything that gives an indication as to what precipitated this.

It exists, obviously, but we can only guess at this point.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about that question. First, the charge of soliciation is a companion charge that cannot stand on it's own. In court, the murder has to be proved first, then the solicitation. Obviously, if they can prove PF did it, and have proved that he was in Colorado on November 25th, there is no other choice available.........he HAD to have solicited someone to operate the phone in Idaho. As I understand the law, they don't have to even identify the solicitee. Second, there are two photos online with similar backgrounds. The first shows KB and CB together, and the other shows KB, her child, and CB. The background in both is clearly Colorado aspens stands, three quarters turned. Its a big fall event in Colorado. The Colorado Springs Gazette Telegraph reported that the aspens surrounding Cripple Creek were three quarters turned on September 11, 2018. Both KB and CB have birthdays close to that date. Good time for a Gramma visit? Someone took the pics. Was it DB? If so, could CB and DB not be in a position to testify under oath that in early September, they witnessed some circumstance or condition that could have set the solicitation process into motion? Or that they observed something that would indicate that the solicitation was not yet in motion? Sometime in September or October is a broad time spectrum.
Third, it's not three charges of Solicitation. It's one if by Murder in the First Degree, and two if by Robbery and Murder in the First Degree. If PF asked someone to send the texts, that would be one count of Solicitation, but if someone asked them to send the texts and sent the whole d*** purse, that would be two counts. One for asking, and one for asking again to dispose of the purse. IMO

 

[MassGuy]

My very first theory was he thought Kelsey might be moving on with another man. I'm not sure how I feel about that now.

My guess is that when all is said and done, we’re going to be left saying: “He killed her for that?!”

That’s not to say there is ever a motive for murder that is acceptable, but some make a lot more logical sense than others.

This one might not.