CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #34 *ARREST*

[TheVic]

This had been planned for months, so whatever the motive was, it was something that he thought quite a bit about.

I don’t think life insurance is the motive, as those cases tend to have a body left behind. No killer is planning on waiting years to collect.

I keep coming back to this having something to do with the child, and perhaps part of that was financial.

He wanted sole custody, and didn’t want to have to pay child support.

It always blows my mind that these guys seem to really believe that they will get away with murder.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Yes. And the prospect of raising a young toddler. I am sure that they love baby K. and grieve for their daughter. But it is sure hard to change your life from empty nest to new toddler nest. At my age, small children are wonderful, for a few hours, then back to their Mama! It would really be an adjustment.

It certainly would be. They went from an empty nest to a full-time baby. There's just not much downtime....for literally years. God bless them.

 

[WildcatRunner]

My opinion of Colorado laws is well known. In spite of my opinion, I fully recognize that those laws apply to everyone the same, and are well known by ressidents. IMO

I don't like the way some laws are here, I wasn't implying I did. It just wouldn't be something I'd think to mention if a newcomer asked me about the state. Unless they specifically asked me about the legal system.

 

[katydid23]

It certainly would be. They went from an empty nest to a full-time baby. There's just not much downtime....for literally years. God bless them.

I am guessing that at some point, as the baby grows older, and her grandparents grow older, she may end up being raised by her uncle and his husband. They are younger and are probably spending a lot of time with their parents and their niece. My heart goes out to the whole family.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It certainly would be. They went from an empty nest to a full-time baby. There's just not much downtime....for literally years. God bless them.

And think of the even more difficult time ahead of the grandparents, when little K will become a teenager, will get in the middle of her puberty, having parents of whom one was murdered long ago and one sitting in jail/possibly on death row for the evil murder. Further imagine: little K knowing as a teenager, which woman is living her happy life (perhaps), although she participated in murdering K's (almost unknown) mum in 2018. What kind of trouble might be awaiting teenie K and at the same time her elderly grandparents, if they are still alive? - IMO MOO

 

[Yellow Rose]

I’m hoping that the baby is raised in their strong faith and with lots of good sources of help to be a fine and beautiful upstanding citizen.

 

[GordianKnot]

I’m hoping that the baby is raised in their strong faith and with lots of good sources of help to be a fine and beautiful upstanding citizen.

Yellow Rose, what a beautiful thought! Thank you for voicing it.

The one consolation and glimmer of hope in all of this darkness is that Baby K. will be reared in a nurturing environment by two loving (grand)parents who have a proven capacity to raise children who go on to become responsible, caring adults and upstanding citizens.

After all, they raised Kelsey...and she was a wonderful human being!

 

[vaporlass]

More goes into it than just the income calculation. There's a points system. First, there's an income qualification that is dependent on household size that allots a number of points, depending on where the income for that family sizes falls in relation to the poverty level. Next the defendant gets points for how close to their income the cost of their essential living expenses is. Then there's points given for a range of assets that could be liquidated without causing harm to housing or employment. Then there are also points for the severity of the crime. If the points add up to a certain threshold, you qualify for a public defender.

Curious, could some of his assets have been transferred into SF’s name?
Didn’t he hire a private lawyer before he was arrested? Then, after arrest he went with a public defender? I suppose his private attorney informed him of $$$cost if he was charged and it went to trial - which was why he went with Public Defender.
I suspect PF “hid” his assets to avoid paying child support from the time his daughter was born, and he offered childcare instead - and KB was more interested in her child having the “father” relationship than child “support” in monetary terms. Which is another indicator of her truly good character. IMO.
He may have had to actually transfer (rather than simply hiding) assets on paper with the private attorney’s assistance in order to qualify for the public defender. Just speculating.

 

[Noharg]

Yellow Rose, what a beautiful thought! Thank you for voicing it.

The one consolation and glimmer of hope in all of this darkness is that Baby K. will be reared in a nurturing environment by two loving (grand)parents who have a proven capacity to raise children who go on to become responsible, caring adults and upstanding citizens.

After all, they raised Kelsey...and she was a wonderful human being!

YellowRose’s thought is lovely. MOO is the B’s will get custody February 17th, but I think the F’s might get visitation.

Grandparent Rights & Visitation

 

[WildWest]

I don't like the way some laws are here, I wasn't implying I did. It just wouldn't be something I'd think to mention if a newcomer asked me about the state. Unless they specifically asked me about the legal system.

And many would find it strange if they did ask, almost suspicious.

 

[riolove77]

Curious, could some of his assets have been transferred into SF’s name?
Didn’t he hire a private lawyer before he was arrested? Then, after arrest he went with a public defender? I suppose his private attorney informed him of $$$cost if he was charged and it went to trial - which was why he went with Public Defender.
I suspect PF “hid” his assets to avoid paying child support from the time his daughter was born, and he offered childcare instead - and KB was more interested in her child having the “father” relationship than child “support” in monetary terms. Which is another indicator of her truly good character. IMO.
He may have had to actually transfer (rather than simply hiding) assets on paper with the private attorney’s assistance in order to qualify for the public defender. Just speculating.

The private attorney assisting him in hiding assets in order to qualify for a PD would be unethical. I doubt he would have done so. Having said that, I wouldn't put it past PF to have done things like that from the time he heard KB was pregnant. Until we hear further, I am of the opinion the pregnancy was NOT planned and he was not happy with it.

If he did do any such thing, he would have lied under penalty of perjury on his application for a PD. Then again, what's a little perjury when you're looking at Murder 1?

 

[InvSmith]

What has struck me from the beginning of this case is how cold, unemotional and controlled PF has been from the get go.

Lawyered up asap, didn't speak to the press, has remained icily silent other than instructing his attorney to seek dismissal of the wrongful death suit filed by KB's parents.

In a way his silence scares me more than Chris Watts' crying and squawking like a canary.

Is PF the epitome of a psychopath? From what I can gather he is so arrogant and seems sure that LE won't find KB's remains.

It appears to me he planned it out methodically, although allegedly trying to enlist accomplices to carry out the dirty deed was a mistake he possibly regrets.

I cannot fathom his thinking, and I don't want to even try because whatever lurks in his mind is terrifying.

MOO.

Completely well said.

 

[InvSmith]

I don't think she'll talk. She's one of those insipid "stand by your man" types who is always a doormat. Look, she carried a torch for this man and did his bidding after he had a relationship with KB and had a child with her. The allure of KKL for PF is that she's a doormat and she's weak, and she inherently knows this. She's not afraid of him, she's too stupid to be afraid of him because he's convinced her she's special and different, you know the same thing he tells every woman. KKL would need some feeling of self worth, a backbone and street smarts to squeal, and her actions tell us she's severely lacking in all those areas.

It is not something generally talked about a lot but there are few things more frightening than dealing with an intent federal agent or investigator. There is nothing that could prepare KL for facing the pressure she placed herself in. If she wasn't intimidated by PF, I can assure you, she was when meeting her first FBI or CBI agent. She told all she knew with or without an attorney.

 

[InvSmith]

If he tells where he body is wouldn't that be considered admitting to the crime?

It is confessing, if he knows where the body is.

 

[InvSmith]

I’m having a really hard time understanding motive- either he needs to be rid of his future wife to be with this other woman... OR he was enraged by the idea of breaking up that day/month and couldn’t handle not being with her. Life insurance policy out on her? They weren’t even married yet I’m just so confused

Never underestimate a psychopath.

 

[GordianKnot]

This had been planned for months, so whatever the motive was, it was something that he thought quite a bit about.

I don’t think life insurance is the motive, as those cases tend to have a body left behind. No killer is planning on waiting years to collect.

I keep coming back to this having something to do with the child, and perhaps part of that was financial.

He wanted sole custody, and didn’t want to have to pay child support.

So, MG, IMO, you're really, really close to nailing it here, son....as always, thanks for sharing your thoughts!

While not normally one to split hairs (daily conditioner use helps), for lack of anything better to do on this thread until the 19th, I'll just say my trail of thought is very similar to yours, but yours is like a mirror image of mine. Inverted.

Flip the clauses in your 2 sentences above, and it pretty much reflects my thinking:

He didn't want to pay child support, so he wanted sole (or whatever would be least costly to him) custody arrangements.

I keep coming back to this having something to do with finances, and part of that was the child.

IMO, the motive was driven solely by PF's needs and wants, along w/ his self-consumed ego.
PF is a cold, narcissistic little *****.
PF cares about PF, not Baby K....as evidenced by the fact that he murdered (IMO) Baby's K's loving mother, upon whom Baby K was dependent to meet her physical, emotional and developmental needs. That attachment was critical for Baby K. PF irrevocably severed that mother-child bond.
Like I said, it's really a distinction without a difference, because motive doesn't matter here. Whatever stupid reason PF manufactured in his hoof-addled brain for his evil deed, the end result is the same.

KB is dead.

All of the above: JMO.

O/T: Good luck to your team in the SB today, MG! We all know you're a huge fan!

 

[GordianKnot]

Yeah, MassGuy ain’t so bad. We had a couple of run ins. But he is just sharper than I am sometimes. Don’t tell him I said so! You both deserve praise. And let’s don’t forget PommyMommy. She is terrific.

BBM: LNF, do you have a MSM source you can link?
If not, we're all probably going to need to treat those statements as unsubstantiated rumors. (Inserting best deadpan expression).

 

[GordianKnot]

Never underestimate a psychopath.

Unless it's an incredibly stupid psychopath.
Like PF, for example.
It's almost impossible to underestimate PF!

 

[PrairieWind]

Never underestimate a psychopath.

I just don’t get the feeling that this is a psychopathic murder. This was planned and motive driven. I just can’t figure out what that motive is.

 

[GordianKnot]

It is not something generally talked about a lot but there are few things more frightening than dealing with an intent federal agent or investigator. There is nothing that could prepare KL for facing the pressure she placed herself in. If she wasn't intimidated by PF, I can assure you, she was when meeting her first FBI or CBI agent. She told all she knew with or without an attorney.

If I committed a crime, I'd just offer up one sentence: "I'd like a lawyer, please."
It seems to me that if suspects stuck to that script, it wouldn't matter what pressure tactics or (legal) interrogation methods LEAs used.