CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #35 *ARREST*

[Auntie Cipation]

I'm wondering if the other 3 can have charges brought on them? Maybe not until the first two cases are complete?

Our board attorneys have explained that, as immoral or unethical as it may be, simply not acting based on knowledge of a planned crime, even a murder, is not illegal. No charges can be brought.

 

[MassGuy]

My concern is that some of the jury are going to be just as sickened as you are. I'm afraid PF's defense will be to claim the murder was KK's idea and now she's got a very sweet deal to testify against him. All it takes is one on the jury to sympathize with PF.

JMO

They could only claim that she committed the murder entirely on her own, without his knowledge.

Even if he was less involved, that doesn’t mean that he isn’t facing murder 1.

There are countless cases where the witnesses are unlikeable, untrustworthy, and are criminals themselves.

If the evidence supports what the witness has to say, then it is typically enough.

I’m not worried here, simply because her testimony will likely only be a part of the state’s case.

Physical and data evidence will probably play the biggest part here.

 

[MassGuy]

Our board attorneys have explained that, as immoral or unethical as it may be, simply not acting based on knowledge of a planned crime, even a murder, is not illegal. No charges can be brought.

Exactly. Being a terrible person doesn’t make you a criminal.

 

[gitana1]

I will breath a sigh of relief when the ID board of nursing makes their decision. Currently she's not on their agenda, but the board did meet in executive session with the DA and several others this past month which leads me to believe they were gathering information from LE about KL. The only other issue is if KL is convicted of a felony, after she has served her time she can apply to reinstate her license. I'm hoping they actually revoke her license, rather than suspend it. And I hope once revoked, they don't choose to reinstate it.

Wow! That's interesting news. And I hope it's revoked permanently as well. Such a person should never be around patients.

 

[dkryder]

i think the DA is able to call witnesses to testify at PF's preliminary hearing and maybe KK will be one of those so her hearing on this friday basically will set the stage for just how she intersects with the case at this point. i do not think it should be construed at this time to mean that this charge is the only possible one . rather, that she has been identified as involved and could plead to that effect on friday. if she does plead i would expect her to testify in some manner on feb 19th. i think it would be a great thing for the prosecution to have a witness such as KK who has admitted a part in the crime whose testimony at the feb 19th hearing would very clearly establish PF's actions in this crime. only MOO.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

If she were involved with the body, I would expect there would be some additional charges, as tampering with evidence does not include a body.

I wonder what evidence it is then. I know PF needs to go down, but she should go right down with him.
Moo

 

[gitana1]

We do know quite a lot. We just don’t have the specifics, and won’t until this goes to trial.

I don’t want to know anything that could hurt the prosecution’s case.

Yes. True. But I've never heard of an entirely sealed case like this so we don't even know of an arrest, except in the case of some very controversial federal terror cases.

Secret cases make it easy for there to be corruption or injustices to be unmonitored by the public.

I get having affidavits sealed for certain purposes for a certain period but otherwise it really gets into unconstitutional territory. How a Colorado Supreme Court ruling affects the public’s right to inspect judicial records - Colorado Freedom of Information Coalition

 

[NoeticSoul]

Our board attorneys have explained that, as immoral or unethical as it may be, simply not acting based on knowledge of a planned crime, even a murder, is not illegal. No charges can be brought.

So nice of rio to answer. I forgot to ask.. @riolove77 what about Civil, can they be held liable that way at all? tyia!

 

[gitana1]

I am still wondering what would compel the DA to give such a plea deal that they are willing to overlook a murder charge and reduce the charges down to tampering with evidence? Perhaps one of our helpful attorneys could shed some light?

There is zero to suggest that the DA is overlooking possible murder charges for KK. If they had sufficient evidence that she participated in murder they wouldn't let her plea to tampering IMO.

I think the most they have is evidence that she was an accessory. A plea deal from that to tampering in exchange for info and testimony is pretty reasonable IMO and likely to happen. But actual murder to tampering? No way.

 

[skycountry]

It is a marathon, not 400 metre sprint, we should all be keeping our focus on the end results. No, KK is not a victim, but who are we to suggest that this would have turned out different IF she had gone to LE, would they have even taken her seriously. Someone mentioned earlier, he had no priors, multiple close family in LE, for all we know LE could have laughed it off, and not bothered to take it seriously. Some of us can speak about this personally, having experienced it first hand, and mentioned in previous posts. If she NOW helps put PF in prison isn't that the outcome decent law abiding people want. The man who killed KB in prison for the rest of his days. She gets to live with her decisions the rest of her life, as will anyone who went along without saying anything. I hope they are ready for it. just moo

 

[MyBelle]

They could only claim that she committed the murder entirely on her own, without his knowledge.

Even if he was less involved, that doesn’t mean that he isn’t facing murder 1.

There are countless cases where the witnesses are unlikeable, untrustworthy, and are criminals themselves.

If the evidence supports what the witness has to say, then it is typically enough.

I’m not worried here, simply because her testimony will likely only be a part of the state’s case.

Physical and data evidence will probably play the biggest part here.

Defense attorneys can get pretty creative. Ever hear of a guy named O.J.? Or that gal in Florida, Casey?

JMO

 

[NoeticSoul]

There is zero to suggest that the DA is overlooking possible murder charges for KK. If they had sufficient evidence that she participated in murder they wouldn't let her plea to tampering IMO.

I think the most they have is evidence that she was an accessory. A plea deal from that to tampering in exchange for info and testimony is pretty reasonable IMO and likely to happen. But actual murder to tampering? No way.

Thank you for your input @gitana1 Much appreciated! As long as he goes down for life, I'm OK with that. It sucks, but still..

 

[Deleted member 718]

I don’t know for sure, but I don’t think she was. I think she was charged and served a summons to appear in court.

So we won't even have the opportunity of seeing her in green and white jail garb plus crocs. I was hoping for the pink handcuffs.

 

[WildcatRunner]

Wow! That's interesting news. And I hope it's revoked permanently as well. Such a person should never be around patients.

I'm curious what a civil lawsuit related to KB's death would do to her ability to be reinstated. Something along the lines of losing the civil suit (which takes a lesser burden of proof) showing that she isn't of the moral standard expected of a nurse. Wishful thinking on my part, maybe, I don't know how nursing license work.

 

[MassGuy]

Defense attorneys can get pretty creative. Ever hear of a guy named O.J.? Or that gal in Florida, Casey?

JMO

The facts and the law, have to support your creativity.

 

[Noharg]

Is tampering / destroying evidence obstruction?

 

[NoeticSoul]

IF KK was so afraid, you'd think that she'd have taped his 'threats' or saved the texts. I hope to see some of that!

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

There is zero to suggest that the DA is overlooking possible murder charges for KK. If they had sufficient evidence that she participated in murder they wouldn't let her plea to tampering IMO.

I think the most they have is evidence that she was an accessory. A plea deal from that to tampering in exchange for info and testimony is pretty reasonable IMO and likely to happen. But actual murder to tampering? No way.

There is only so much they can do. I blame KK,PF, BFF, MR,AND MRS. R, and anyone else who knew,or helped before, during,and after.
They all know who they are, the law might not get them, but Karma, and shunning can.

 

[Seattle1]

I really just needed to take a break for the day. I'm back. I'm used to the vitriol, honestly. People in this country do not like law enforcement and unfortunately DAs fall into that category.

There are bad/lazy/corrupt people in every profession. We don't stop going to church because some priests molest children, we don't stop sending our kids to school because some teachers rape their students. It's unreal to assume that the DA here is just looking for the fast, cheapest, least amount of work necessary way to get this case taken care of.

He said at the press conference in December that this case wouldn't be tried in the media, and it hasn't. For that alone I have a ton of respect. To assume that just because we don't know certain details surrounding this plea deal (or any other aspect of the case) means he's taking the easy way out is ridiculous.

It is very much possible that the only ILLEGAL (not immoral) thing that KK did was transporting the phone. If so, and she could have faced an accessory after the fact charge had she refused to cooperate, but is now going to get a tampering charge in exchange for full cooperation, that is fantastic. Imagine she refused to talk and they had nothing to stick her with except for the accessory charge. She'd go to prison for 2-6 years and that would be that. But she wouldn't testify against PF, and then what? If she is the nail in his coffin, then give her the tampering charge.

I know we all despise her because she knew. She's disgusting and immoral. Frankly, I'd love to give her a piece of my mind. BUT, the DA cannot charge her for knowing. It's simply not a crime. And if all she really did do was transport the phone, then I think it's a sweet deal for the DA frankly. Have some faith, until there's reason not to.

Thank you for your post @riolove77, and especially the legal reference.

Just like verbally soliciting a crime is not enough, I agree with you that you can't charge knowing!

You can't charge immoral!

No matter how much we want it.

I've used the following example for how verbally soliciting a crime is not enough. It's not illegal. If this is similar to what PF said to KK, she could say she didn't believe him -- thought he was blowing off steam. After the fact, it's obvious (and there's evidence) that PF had the specific intent to promote or facilitate the murder of KB, and he was also charged with solicitation.

• Example: One night Lenny and Mickey are having a beer, when Lenny says to Mickey, “What do you say we kill my wife? That woman needs to die.” Without anything further, Lenny is guilty of nothing more than blowing off steam.

If KK says she didn't believe PF if he said he wanted his fiance dead, I believe it would be pretty difficult for DA to prove that KK knew PF was serious, not blowing off steam, until AFTER KB was missing, and later presumed dead.

It's ugly, it's evil, I don't like it, but that doesn't make it illegal.

MOO

 

[MyBelle]

The facts and the law, have to support your creativity.

When the verdict is in the jury's hands, they get to decide whether the testimony offered by someone who has received a sweet plea deal is credible or not.

JMO