CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #37 *ARREST*

[katydid23]

As much as I think KB'death is PF's fault based on the charges, his mother did not contact the police either when KB was missing. I understand she was most likely being told a cover story but even when she did not show up after a week some hard questions needed to be answered with the police.

That was a totally different situation for KB's mother.

PF was in the same town, and co-parenting on a daily basis. He was the one in the best position to know what KB was doing.

Her mother was out of state, and they did not speak every day. KB had a full and busy life, as a full time employee with a long commute and as a single mother. So it is no surprise that Mom might not expect to hear from her every day. And she thought that her child had as fiance' who was very involved with her and the baby. So she assumed her daughter was OK. JMO

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Well, he certainly didn't try to hide her when it was all over the news while LE was investigating. He carried her around everywhere, it seems. Imo

Because at that time he was cocky,and thought he got away with murder. He was being cocooned too. Until the dump run, and second search of Kelsey's place.
LE had to close in real quick to arrest him,and get custody of Baby K.
MOO

 

[SandyQLS]

I don't know. I think the State might make it part of their narrative in Opening Statements. " The defendant never reported her missing, never called her or her friends to find out where she was, never searched or took part in press conferences or vigils. etc etc etc..."

Opening Statements are not evidence, but they do affect the Jurors thinking, imo.

HaHa - I was thinking about it being used in closing statements! You are so right, and another gallon of coffee for me.

 

[susiQ]

At this point, we know for sure that KKL has been cooperating with the investigation, and that she did not commit any higher than a Class 4 Felony in Colorado (the upper end of the range of plea bargain reduction).
I can't second guess when she started cooperating. Since Friday I've tried, and just can't do it. I think it's possible that all of the searching, that we know of, could have been at least partially motivated by her information and laser-pointed toward the LE goal of finding KB. If that should prove to be correct, then the RR's and the elusive Michelle will turn out to be a sideshow distraction, rather than the main event.
I don't have any answers, but I think the questions are worth some study.
IMO

Dave, edit M***** to "M"

 

[katydid23]

But if the court ordered you to, you would have to.

I don’t like the concept of guilt by association, personally. A good home is a good home, and good people are good people. We all should be judged and given or denied opportunities based on who we are as individuals. Not who we happen to be related to, which is something we couldn’t choose.

Exactly. A good home is a good home, and good people are good people. And PF was raised in that home, and was living in that home, planning KB's brutal murder, while bouncing that baby on his knee.

I have a lot of reluctance sending the baby back into that home right now. That 'person' she is related to is her son and her business partner. They are very close. So in my mind it is not 'guilt by association.' Mama was part of the mix. She never reached out to the B family to allow them to see the grand baby while they were in town, grieving their missing daughter. She never attended searches or vigils or reported her missing either.

As to the court order, if the B's end up with final custody, I don't believe the court will order them to allow visitation. JMO

 

[SandyQLS]

PF himself only had an hour’s notice at that first P.C. I think there were things LE knew from the get-go that led them to engineer it so that only the Berreths were there. JMO

ITA. I still think that the WPPD Chief specifically mentioning little Gooding, Idaho, in that presser was a shout out to the person we now know was KKL. LE could have just said "pinged in Idaho" or "pinged northwest of Colorado" and been vague, or mentioned a freeway number "a tower near I-84" or said nothing at all. KB was a missing person at the time.

I think the Chief already knew about KKL and was putting her on notice. That presser was Dec 10 and I do not think she went to LE. At the mention of Gooding, Idaho, KKL likely had a pit in her stomach, all her hair stood on end, and a feeling of dread came over her.

 

[MsBetsy]

Because at that time he was cocky,and thought he got away with murder. He was being cocooned too. Until the dump run, and second search of Kelsey's place.
LE had to close in real quick to arrest him,and get custody of Baby K.
MOO

Yes, he was arrogant, but my reply was in regard to him hiding the baby.

 

[Kapua]

In my experience, killers never study each other's work. IMO

This is SO true.

 

[Lhughessk]

Exactly. A good home is a good home, and good people are good people. And PF was raised in that home, and was living in that home, planning KB's brutal murder, while bouncing that baby on his knee.

I have a lot of reluctance sending the baby back into that home right now. That 'person' she is related to is her son and her business partner. They are very close. So in my mind it is not 'guilt by association.' Mama was part of the mix. She never reached out to the B family to allow them to see the grand baby while they were in town, grieving their missing daughter. She never attended searches or vigils or reported her missing either.

Never reported her missing? Don’t you think she only found out KB was missing when everyone else did, after the welfare check on Dec 3?

As for searches and vigils, I’m pretty sure there were no organized searches. Don’t know about vigils. And I’ve already stated why I think it wasn’t a good idea for the F or the B families to interact during that very brief period of time.

 

[MyBelle]

In my experience, killers never study each other's work. IMO

Just because it isn't in your experience doesn't mean it didn't happen in this case. The Watts case unfolded and extensive investigative documents were released around the same time as KB disappeared.

I don't know how PF could have avoided knowing about the CW case and avoiding the mistakes CW made from the get go: CW talked extensively to the media and his comments were dissected and criticized in the media and on this very forum; SW's phone and purse were found in the home and friends knew she would never leave the home without them; CW disposed of the bodies where they easily could be found.

Avoiding these same mistakes resulted in a delay in PF's arrest and KB's body is still missing. CW's conviction was a slam dunk. It won't be quite that easy if KB's body isn't found.

JMO

 

[InvSmith]

That was a totally different situation for KB's mother.

PF was in the same town, and co-parenting on a daily basis. He was the one in the best position to know what KB was doing.

Her mother was out of state, and they did not speak every day. KB had a full and busy life, as a full time employee with a long commute and as a single mother. So it is no surprise that Mom might not expect to hear from her every day. And she thought that her child had as fiance' who was very involved with her and the baby. So she assumed her daughter was OK. JMO

I think we were speaking of PF's mom not reporting KB missing.

 

[MyBelle]

PF himself only had an hour’s notice at that first P.C. I think there were things LE knew from the get-go that led them to engineer it so that only the Berreths were there. JMO

BBM. That's PF's former lawyer's laughable claim. CB managed to make it just fine.....and so did the Denver news media.

JMO

 

[MsJosie]

Never reported her missing? Don’t you think she only found out KB was missing when everyone else did, after the welfare check on Dec 3?

As for searches and vigils, I’m pretty sure there were no organized searches. Don’t know about vigils. And I’ve already stated why I think it wasn’t a good idea for the F or the B families to interact during that very brief period of time.

No, I think she knew KB was missing way before it was reported....way before

 

[mickey2942]

I think we were speaking of PF's mom not reporting KB missing.

Sure, PF drops Baby K on her, the Mother, KB, NEVER calls to see how she is doing, and PF's Mother is like, hmmm, whatever...NOT!

PF's Mother had to know something, and chose, as so many women do, to just ignore the disconnect.

And KK had to have had several talks with PF, in the planning process of KB "missing". Definitely, he didn't just randomly drop off the cell phone and ask her to send a few text messages. She knew EXACTLY what was going on, and she was part of the process. I hope she gets a prison sentence.

 

[Kapua]

But here's the catch on that - You're a WSer who follows cases and news in greater detail. The people who will be on a potential jury will be less interested in cases and usually admit to knowing nothing or only know vaguely from MSM reports. And the prosecutor will not bring up such info as testimony, unless perhaps PF took the stand where he would only say he acted on his lawyer's advice. So it matters in the court of WS opinion, but it is not evidence of anything. JMO (thinking ahead to trial)

I can think of cases like Scott Peterson where he did go to the searches... can anyone remember where someone acted like PF and did not search or put up flyers or attend vigils as PF has done?

I can't. I followed the Peterson case closely. And I remember that a photographer at the Modesto Bee captured a picture of Scott smiling at Laci's vigil. That photo was presented at trial, and one of the jurors commented that it partially influenced her decision. In this case, I don't know that we have a photo. But I respectfully disagree that PF's actions (or inactions) are not evidence. They are, IMHO.

 

[InvSmith]

PF himself only had an hour’s notice at that first P.C. I think there were things LE knew from the get-go that led them to engineer it so that only the Berreths were there. JMO

I think the Commander refuted the hour notice claim. At that point, the police just want to find a missing woman.

 

[Kapua]

Sure, PF drops Baby K on her, the Mother, KB, NEVER calls to see how she is doing, and PF's Mother is like, hmmm, whatever...NOT!

PF's Mother had to know something, and chose, as so many women do, to just ignore the disconnect.

And KK had to have had several talks with PF, in the planning process of KB "missing". Definitely, he didn't just randomly drop off the cell phone and ask her to send a few text messages. She knew EXACTLY what was going on, and she was part of the process. I hope she gets a prison sentence.

I am very curious as to how PF played this with his family; particularly his mother, with whom he shared a residence, and who provided child care for little K. He had to have told her something. In all fairness, if he told her that KB told him she was going to visit her sick grandmother, she would have had no reason to disbelieve him until KB was reported missing. Perhaps we may eventually find out exactly what he told her. I'm thinking "hostile witness". MOO

 

[Steelhead]

The Frazees including baby K, all absolutely should have shown up for the first press conference and stood in unity with CB and LE trying to alert the public about a missing mother. They could and should have let CB interact with baby K right there. It was incredibly cruel to withhold the baby from her maternal grandmother and reflects poorly on PF and his family.

I don't fault the Frazees for requiring search warrants. I'd require it, too.

JMO

Where is it stated that the Frazees withheld baby K from her maternal grandmother?

 

[MyBelle]

Sure, PF drops Baby K on her, the Mother, KB, NEVER calls to see how she is doing, and PF's Mother is like, hmmm, whatever...NOT!

PF's Mother had to know something, and chose, as so many women do, to just ignore the disconnect.

And KK had to have had several talks with PF, in the planning process of KB "missing". Definitely, he didn't just randomly drop off the cell phone and ask her to send a few text messages. She knew EXACTLY what was going on, and she was part of the process. I hope she gets a prison sentence.

I think it is likely that PF gave his mom the "KB went to visit her sick grandmother" story. What we still don't know for sure is when did PF receive the text message. Because if it wasn't until Nov. 25--and PF gave his mother this story on Nov. 22--this will be huge evidence against him at trial. I think all the phone evidence is going to be critical.
JMO

 

[MassGuy]

I agree, KK's involvement is more than she is pleading too. But what worries me, especially after seeing PF wearing a bullet proof vest on Thursday for a custody hearing, puts me back on the fence as far as there being a 3rd or 4th party involved here. @BingoBongo mentioned it in the prior thread about an option #4. I'm with BingoBingo on that.

This is what keeps lurking in the back of my mind. That there is another person out there who is involved and that person may be getting very nervous that KK is throwing PF under the bus and now PF will decide to start talking. Until Friday, no one knew what/if KK was going to plead. Now that she has, the dominoes of this case may really start falling, especially after his appearance on Feb 19th.

It's hard for me to write out what I'm thinking and not start talking in circles so I'll leave it with saying I believe there is still one more person involved here. PF killed KB on Thanksgiving Day while he was over there doing a custody exchange. Appears he was unsuccessful being able to get someone to commit the actual murder, so he does it himself while doing the exchange of Baby K and immediately leaves her property with the baby..... he leaves KB there (oh how I hate to think this) knowing he was successful in hiring someone to come in immediately afterwards and dispose of KB's body (which then opens a whole other new door as to whether PF even knows where KB's body is but I wont go there now). Also makes me think KK was involved in some kind of clean up...

And to @MassGuy ... I know I poke at you being a Pats fan but in all honesty.... Congrats on your win!

I think that when all is said and done, there will only be two people implicated in crimes here.

Enough time has passed that I think if any further arrests were going to occur, they would have happened.

As to the vest, I think it’s simply a matter of someone threatening him in jail. It coincided with him being moved to protective custody.

An inmate could have threatened him, and said something like “I have people who can take you out.” That would be more than enough to spur the type of reaction we saw.

I’m not reading too much into that.